As is your scaremongering that an open PvE mode would lead to server closures sooner, divide the playerbase into smaller chunks etc. The playerbase is already split into smaller chunks mate, WITH THE CURRENT MODE ARRANGEMENT. An open PvE mode would actually bring many of those smaller groups together, but go on ignoring that all you like. Just not in a way that provides targets for certain types of PvPers. Sure, there are some implementation considerations to be resolved, but you're confused about the motivation many of us have behind having an open PvE mode
Frontier. Please make a PVE mode to this game.
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As is your scaremongering that an open PvE mode would lead to server closures sooner, divide the playerbase into smaller chunks etc. The playerbase is already split into smaller chunks mate, WITH THE CURRENT MODE ARRANGEMENT. An open PvE mode would actually bring many of those smaller groups together, but go on ignoring that all you like. Just not in a way that provides targets for certain types of PvPers. Sure, there are some implementation considerations to be resolved, but you're confused about the motivation many of us have behind having an open PvE mode
Sure I was just watching it
A really good watch actually.Yeah he's being cagey about an open PvE mode.
I dare say a community run Private Server with sufficient tools can be what it wants to be. DBOBE mentions that generally if players couldn't damage other players with collisions for example (like it was in beta?), that it would render ships invulnerable and it would somehow 'break the game'.. well, official servers have to conform to a lot more regulation, but a private group? I don't see FDEV stepping in to judge decisions against players being banned from the group. You have a ton more flexibility when private groups are concerned. No one will have an invulnerable ship in any case. No one wants an invulnerable ship.
Also, given enough support I dare say ideas for a player run private server mode through popular demand with a philosophy that works for 35k+ players is pretty good. Very good
I guess you would know all about scaremongering
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed - and the answer is always that PvE players cannot do it by themselves (they don't engage in direct PvP....).
There is no "guaranteeing" the safety of any player in the game by other players - due to instancing and even the time taken to get from one place in a system to another to be able to drop into a player wake in the hope to get there before they have been destroyed.
The reason to play in Open is the other players - if it's not fun playing among them (for all players) then I suspect that some of them will continue to choose not to play there....
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Sure I was just watching it
Yeah he's being cagey about an open PvE mode.
I dare say a community run Private Server with sufficient tools can be what it wants to be. DBOBE mentions that generally if players couldn't damage other players with collisions for example (like it was in beta?), that it would render ships invulnerable and it would somehow 'break the game'.. well, official servers have to conform to a lot more regulation, but a private group? I don't see FDEV stepping in to judge decisions against players being banned from the group. You have a ton more flexibility when private groups are concerned. No one will have an invulnerable ship in any case. No one wants an invulnerable ship.
Also, given enough support I dare say ideas for a player run private server mode through popular demand with a philosophy that works for 35k+ players is pretty good. Very good
The problem is that ED isnt just p2p. It also needs servers, for among other things the BGS and PP. I very much doubt mr. Mobius would be willing to host servers to deal with that for 35k+. And if he does, it is pretty much gonna have to be a subscription based thing because there is no way he can do that on his own. Besides, it makes it impossible for FD to intervene. Its part of the reason Offline was cancelled. You need to run the BGS locally (which in some aspects makes zero sense as it is designed for MP), which means that if *anything* goes wrong your 'local galaxy' is screwed. In the first season FD had the BGS under tight control, and often had to manually intervene to prevent the whole show from going off the road. Its getting better now, and the BGS is getting more powerful, but I very much doubt it is ready for a private 'fire and forget' attempt.
Its a cool idea though!
That's what we're trying to prevent. Mobius players just do not want to join the OPEN mode. Mobius is fragmented through game limitations. Limitations that FDEV never thought possible to meet. How would they know that a private game mode, probably designed for a small group to wing up and do a bit of PvE would ever reach just shy of 35k players and counting.
When you have such a solid and dedicated crowd to playing JUST PVE, it's silly to usher them into a PvP active game mode. If DBOBE is a little worried about making an official PvE mode, then the option is there to simply promote Mobius to an encompassing state to which it can support it's userbase. Additional tools to help limit direct player damage would be a bonus. BUT above all else, allow the Mobius community decide who stays and who gets banned. FDEV can wash their hands of this admin burden. Player > Player damage off will be a great start to limit griefing.. which breaks the game far more than bouncing off a shield should one accidentally hit someone else in a PvE letterbox.
PvE players don't need to. PvP players are more than happy to do it because the PvE players will always be a focus of attention for other PvP players.
Logic.
There is no guaranteeing the safety of any player, anywhere. I can log in right now and randomly explode to a bug. It's happened. You and I both have been through that. Players are going to lose ships, Whoop-dee-doo.
Insurance is insanely cheap, and they'll only lose one before the problem is handled.
People lose ships all the time in PvE. Why is it so heinous and disgusting when they lose one to a player? What makes that so macabre and forbidden?
All you've done is highlight the real problem with the game which creates so many more problems. Instancing and modes. We need real servers and one mode and none of this will have to be discussed again. Distance is not an issue, that's just a lack of creativity on your part.
Someone just posted asking for advice on their DBS railboat that has a 35ly jump range. I'll be damned if a wing of 4 of those wouldn't make a very snazzy strike team.
If you want all risk eliminated from the game, go play solitaire. It doesn't matter whether that risk comes from another player or an NPC or the game itself, you are always at risk of losing your ship and it doesn't matter how it happens, a loss is a loss. So yes, as soon as you start up the game, whether it's in solo or Open, there is no guarantee in the factual use of the word.
Guess what? My toaster was guaranteed for 2 years too and that little twerp burned out last week. Looks like nothing in life fits that definition.
He is not arguing that PvE players attack the griefers, if you think that you misunderstood.
Sure I do heartily agree with you
Mobius OPEN should be mirrored on what OPEN is now, and endorsed by FDEV. The only difference being in that it can facilitate the whole group, rather than having to work around the group limitations. To have a united playerbase like that would be super in one mode. I love the openness of Mobius, it feels right that mankind has banded together to see the galaxy, it's a great philosophy. I know it's a pain in the for FDEV to administer and keep mole bashing politics on: he did this, he did that, look what he did in the letterbox.. FDEV hate banning people, they'd just get stick.. but if they washed their hands of all the red tape and there's a disclaimer saying 'this is not an officially managed server (and point to Mobius policy) it should be enough.. bah I'm sure they have more pressing things to do than mole bash arguments on griefing vs PvP vs accidentally for the third time in a row ramming a ship trying to take off
Create an open version of the limited private mode, let the community decide what kind of philosophy is behind the etiquette of play and let the community manage the affairs and player list.I think if a good, middle ground and understanding can be achieved it will be a great thing for a lot of players
It wouldn't be the first time they've had to reconsider their position on something, if they decided to implement an open PvE mode, though. Solo offline? Ship transfer times? Lots of other stuff from the DDF? I think that the issue of Mobius becoming as large as it is and requiring multiple private groups now and moving forward will inevitably drive Frontier to have to seriously reconsider......if not now, at some future point. Sooner or later Frontier will twig to the fact that multiple private groups to provide that open PvE option, which is not truly open because it's divided between multiple groups, is simply not workable long term. Might be a fine bandaid for now, but you can only apply so many bandaids to a wound before it simply becomes ridiculous and something more suitable has to be used.
No I understood. He's asking a PvE player group find PvP players to out PvP the PvP people in some fantasy land that works like EvE rather than like Elite.
Nonsense in other words. This discussion is just ridiculous
Riddle me this.
What happens when someone attacks a player faction in the BGS? Isn't that indirect PvP?
Unless you don't care about the BGS. At which point I'd be damned to ask: What is your definition of PvE in the context of this game?
These two terms don't exist within the context of this game. Every action inherently contains a bit of both. If you go and trade to a station that is ruled by some other faction than the one I'm supporting, you are acting against me, whether you realize it or not.
There are no innocents in this game. Such an argument can only stem from ignorance of one's actions.
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I don't deny that I have firm opinions on many things and express them. I don't recall ever making such threats that servers will close if this or that happens though. Not sure there's much scaremongering behind wanting an open PvE mode though.
*sigh*
Don't bother. You know and I know what each of us means, be a smartass somewhere else
ps. for clarity I have not editted the post I have replied to, his was edited in retrospect. I will leave mine and his original as is.
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No, I insist. I want an answer. Is it or is not possible for you to be working against someone else through your PvE actions, thus inherently providing a PvP outcome to them even when being in Mobius and claiming innocence?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
So the PvE players are only shepherded by some PvP players as they are going to be targets for other PvP players? Doesn't sound like the PvE players will be avoiding PvP - rather that they are a lure for others to start the PvP engagement that the shepherds will want to react to.
Of a sort.
Indeed - although not all players react in the same way to losing their ship.
That rather depends on how many rebuys one has in ready credits.
A simple dislike of PvP, I would expect.
Not really - the game was consciously designed to not give PvP players control - as any player can choose to play in a mode where no-one can directly affect them but every player experiences and affects the single shared galaxy state - by design.
Being outside the system where the player has been attacked pretty much guarantees a tardy response.
I would not expect that many players would seriously want all risk eliminated in the game . Not wishing to engage in PvP is often conflated with aversion to all risk - I expect that many players who play Solo and Private Groups simply don't want unwanted interaction with other players and, thankfully, Frontier included that option in their design for the game..
Shame that....
Correct me if I'm wrong but that's not really the point of the argument.
The thread is about an Open PvE mode which disables PvP as defined in the most basic sense of the word, direct player-on-player action, not indirect "Oh but you're working against my faction" action. Which, by the way, considering that players were only allowed to name and place factions, not actually run or be a part of them, kind of nullifies your entire argument since the offending player would, in that case, be working against an NPC led faction that is backed by players, not against any single player directly.
We can twist it around all day. The argument, however, is about direct player-on-player action.
Your error is highlighted.
For starters nobody is claiming innocence and someone with a poor ping who doesn't instance with you will be in just the same boat, are they also to fall into your category of people who shouldn't be playing the game? (This is rhetorical, it's obvious what your answer will be)
Seriously get back under the rock, and if you were that insistent you'd be bothered to read the rest of this thread which you've clearly not so if you can't be bothered to make the effort why should we go out of our way for you?
What does ping have to do with everything I mentioned?