Frontier's Mistake

[Old Duck]

Flip side is, a few months ago we got a big update for new player experience and the damned arx store system, the new player content, whcih excludes "the masses", and is only for the (junior) "classes" never got any flack.

I think one of the reasons that the new player stuff got a free pass was that we all expected the "big" update in December when the September update dropped. Had we all known that the new player stuff was ALL we were getting, then I think there would have been more wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Also, Galnet and Interstellar Initiatives were still alive and well, including the two of the best IIs IMO. These were later cannibalized to give us Fleet Carriers, removing content from the masses to cater to the classes.

 

[Han Zulu]

I was on hiatus for a good month or so, having grown bored with the current content. This isn't a snipe at Frontier - I've been playing the game since 2017, so without new content, it's only natural for a long-time player to grow bored. What brought me back is Drew Wagar's Lore Tour, though I'm still not overly "ooh, ahh" about the gameplay itself. Now if Frontier reinstated Interstellar Initiatives, then I'd jump back into the pool with both feet and a big splash

But to be clear, I haven't quit. ED will remain on my hard drive as long as the servers keep running.

I hear ya'. I was on a 2+ month hiatus myself. Also bored of the things available. Compared to other games, I've spent at least 2 or 3 times more in Elite than in any other, so it's still in my top 5.

 

[Han Zulu]

For me it was having a razor focus for an FC- and the schizophrenic yes / no binary thinking FD go through with multiplayer content. You have squadrons, you have assets of squadrons. No complaints of high costs because you all contribute. But because solo players can run them, you then have the issue of people thinking levels are too high- in essence FD have tried to please everyone yet can't. Too high and singles get shafted. Too low, it becomes too easy and groups complain "whats the point" and want it gone.

I think you're touching on a valid point.

The FC was originally meant for squadrons. At least that's the impression I had in the early days. But after complains or because they didn't want single person squadrons, they now changed it to be single player owned.

And that caused a problem, becase the FC was probably also thought of being expensive from start, and if a squadron owned it, it wouldn't be an issue to buy, upkeep, refuel, etc. But now because it's a single-player item, the price, upkeep, and fuel is suddenly an issue for single players.

This is probably a reason to why I don't think they should lower the price or change the upkeep at all. It's nice to have something really up there, a bit far away to reach for and work towards. But they need to add features and functions that relates to squadrons still, like discounts for friends/squaddies, or limit access to black market to public, etc.

 

[Old Duck]

I hear ya'. I was on a 2+ month hiatus myself. Also bored of the things available. Compared to other games, I've spent at least 2 or 3 times more in Elite than in any other, so it's still in my top 5.

Same thing happened to me last year, and then I heard news that Palin was kidnapped or ambushed or something, and I thought, "Woah, something big is happening in Elite, I need to be there!" And like riding a bike, I was back into it again.

It actually doesn't take much to please me - just give me a new, interesting story (cough Interstellar Initiative cough) to partake in. And no, hauling a Hutton mug somewhere does not qualify.

 

[Han Zulu]

Same thing happened to me last year, and then I heard news that Palin was kidnapped or ambushed or something, and I thought, "Woah, something big is happening in Elite, I need to be there!" And like riding a bike, I was back into it again.

It actually doesn't take much to please me - just give me a new, interesting story (cough Interstellar Initiative cough) to partake in. And no, hauling a Hutton mug somewhere does not qualify.

Same here! I don't need much. When we had the 2.x updates and there were new ships and such, every little thing that I saw could be useful for exploration was like a big gift. I felt like little kid opening christmas presents for getting some new little module or tool or engineering thing.

My issue with this update isn't really about that I didn't get what I wanted, but rather that I love the game and want it to thrive and continue with a large user group. And why is that? Because the continuation of the game is based on popularity and a solid player base. If that base is hurt, the game will be hurting, and I will as a consequence also be hurting from losing a beautiful game. So... my selfishness runs much deeper than not getting a new little plastic toy, but rather that Frontier doesn't address the elephants in the room that might need to be given some peanuts to stay in the circus and do tricks. Without the elephants, there's no circus.

 

[Han Zulu]

--double post--

 

[kilvenny]

I think one of the reasons that the new player stuff got a free pass was that we all expected the "big" update in December when the September update dropped.

If we want new players to join the salt mines, we knew the new player experience needed to improve. So there was no new content for any existing player and we were all in the same boat. I think that is very different to this time. We have a lot of players who have played for years, FD basically said we are only interested in the serious players who are minmaxing or putting in serious game time for this release. I am not sure they intended that, I think they genuinely think players will visit these ships and not just own them.
One of the big issues generally with ED is because nothing is balanced and massively subject to grind, the whole player mindset is focused on min max and every piece of gameplay/mechanic is dismantled with that mindset.

 

[Ignition]

The thing is FD developed the carriers for 2 years and its only for a very limited portion of the players.
I know I will never have one since 5 billions is... BORING. I may reach an anaconda some day but a carrier never.
I think if they wasted 6 months in developing the carriers ok, but 2 years is too much for too little.

 

[Hossi]

Well, carriers will be a content for the more experienced players. Simply because of the credit barrier. This will, of course, exclude some players with less disposable income.
I personaly am now in the process of waking up, elite-wise. I mean, I never left the game. But before the september update, that added nothing but bugs for me, I used to play every evening. Now I play at best once a week.
Carriers are the first addition to this game that will make a difference for me since core mining was added. That was 2018, wasn't it?
I've made a mark on my calender for tuesday, the day the beta will get available.

This update will decide, whether or not I still have confidence in FD in regards to development efforts. You know, 'new era' and such.

 

[ElectricFactory]

How did you do it, regular jumping or neutron highway ? How long did it take you to get there ?
Colonia, still on my to-do list.

I just took my Python to Colonia to gain access to the engineers out there.

 

[askavir]

I'm basing this more on all the negative feedback I'm reading about Fleet Carriers rather than my own feelings about them. Simply put, I believe Frontier's mistake was to focus solely on content for the "classes" while providing nothing for the "masses".

I think the explanation is even simpler than that.

Fleet Carriers was originally to be part of a larger release of content (the last part of "Beyond"). So content "for the classes" would not be seen as bad, because there was more stuff being released at the same time. Yet as we know that did not happen...

2 years later, FCs are released, the first content release in a very, very long time. And suddenly lots of novelty-starved players realise that the only incoming content is "for the classes", and worse even part of those classes (the bilionnaire explorers) are also cut off as the FCs ended up being just a worthless but costly liability for an explorer.

So basicaly the first content release in 2 years ended up being, at least in the short term, aimed just for a very small subset of players. Which is really not that terrible, as a much larger(?) release is incoming soon(ish?), but I do understand why some players are a bit miffed. If this had been just another feature in a larger content update like originally planned, there would have been much less salt.

 

[SP_Predicador]

In my opinion, Frontier main Mistake is not having released new content for years, and have been using FC, like a distraction, for long time. So short focused. And many people get too hyped.

Another mistake, is that they sell FC first as a guild ship, second as a valuable asset for explorers (auxiliary ships preview). Then finally we are here, personal ship, no guild ownership, storage, bank and market, and a questioned utility and efficiency for exploration playing alone.

 

[Dutchman141]

Imho I think the biggest mistake was coming up with Fleet Carriers at all.
I still can't grasp the fact that Fdev thought that this is what ED needed in the first place.
I was under the impression that ED is about a lone pilot in this huge universe flying his/her spaceship doing all kinds of stuff, not become a corporate trade manager.

A lot of effort has no doubt been put into these FCs but I rather would've seen they'd put that effort in creating better quality Interstellar Initiatives, CGs and functioning Galnet instead of canceling those.
Or create more story related stuff Thargoids/Guardians like they did a long time ago.
Or place more stuff to find and do in this 400billion starsystem counting galaxy or on planets, which are still near to being empty.
You know, stuff you can do as a pilot in your spaceship.

If I would ever want a FC then I would want it to be an extension of what I was already doing not a whole new career as manager or being forced to do things, like mining, that I normaly would never do.
That's why I'm disappointed in this whole FC thing, imho FCs as they are now just don't fit the nature of the game.

Edit:

Just look at what you actually get.
An FC costs an enormous amount of money in purchase and upkeep.
They're a labour and not practical at all to move around.
For what?
A bunch of managment menus where you have to wressle against the ever competing prices of stations.
Unless you're into managment games I don't see any added gameplay whatsoever and totaly disconected from what ED is/was as a game.

Mind you this is only my opinion, my thoughts.

 

[Ayerc]

I think one of the reasons that the new player stuff got a free pass was that we all expected the "big" update in December when the September update dropped. Had we all known that the new player stuff was ALL we were getting, then I think there would have been more wailing and gnashing of teeth.

But it didn't get a free pass. People were just as vocal about their disappointment that it focused solely on new players. Since most everyone on the forum was already beyond the starter bubble, they were incredibly demanding about having content for them right along side it.

I think a good question is WHY are Universal Cartographics not available on them? Legit question for spitballing here.
Did Frontier explain why? I didn't see the stream in full.

That aside, the WHY, as best I remember past FDev posts:
FDev has always taken the stance (whether players like it or not) that Carto Data can only be sold at a station to give exploration some amount of "risk." I put it in quotes because any seasoned explorer will tell you that's ridiculous and I tend to agree. Rather than make the void dangerous through phenomena, unknown aliens, secret human bases, etc. they decided making explorers return to civlization was a better course of action.

Now, part of the issue is that the galaxy is huge. I believe their intent was to keep players going to hotspots of player activity to encourage those spontaneous interations. Again, their reasoning was likely that Carto Data helps system factions, and I think they believed 1) explorers might be loyal to a system faction/PowerPlay and 2) other players would want to stop that influence by hunting explorers. Of course the Open v Solo play styles added it's own complications, the vastness of even just the bubble was another. Misguided as that all may be (there's no way to pilfer data, no recoverable data cores/black boxes, solo avoids any PVP), it is how they've kept the system.

Now, to be optimistic, there's a chance the end of year paid DLC may overhaul quite a lot of things. Perhaps they will make black boxes recoverable as has been suggested by the player base for years. Perhaps the Carto Data will become a different type of resource pulling NPCs to player-founded settlements in the black. Who knows. But I can almost certainly guarantee that they didn't design the FCs for the old game, but with the new game in mind. If that is even remotely close to their plans, then adding UC to an FC right now is a bigger problem. Imagine the outrage if they first gave it and then took it away.

Unfortunately, the only thing we can do without more info from FDev is wait and see.

 

[EdzUp]

I don't believe Fleet Carriers are a mistake, in the coming next phase of the Thargoid war they will be essential and also one of the reasons they were made persistent. Look at it this way FCs are going to be the mobile repair bases that space stations couldn't be they can go further into the heart of Thargoid space and still allow us to take the fight to them. As I said in another post what will be interesting is if they can be damaged by Thargoids and to what level?

 

[metatheurgist]

Duck is right. FCs came from when the dev focus was on group play. That train of development has produced such awesome work as Powerplay, Squadrons, Player Made Factions - stuff that very little have touched and appealed to very little people. But they couldn't change course once it was announced. Hopefully that's behind us now and we can get stuff for everyone. A New Era even.

 

[Chaparral]

This could involve the masses if there was a LFG (looking for group) function type searchable mission board that would allow any player to find open FCs looking for commodities or bounties.

 

[AsukaZ]

I'm not even sure they've made a mistake.
They're releasing updates according to their plan. Having beta periods to fine tune them. Continuing development.
If you mean not meeting people's expectations well that's really on them.

Anyway, people stop playing a particular game occasionally. It happens. It's not a bad thing. You come back to the games you love. Rage quitting smacks of petulance to me. They'll be back. Hotel California.

 

[VoluptaBox]

My fundamental issue with FCs is that I don't see their place in the galaxy. They try to encourage some sort of player interaction, ie through 'player run markets', yet without any real use for commodities I can't see the point of it all.

Still, I'll hold my judgment until I actually see them in action.

 

[JetsonRING]

What are your theories as to why Carto isn't included? I can't really come up with a good reason.

If a CMDR can sell exploration data to their own FC, then he or she can sell their exploration data to Cartographics (and get credit for the discovery) immediately when discovering something instead of being required to survive all the way back to the bubble, to a station to sell the data.