Fundamentally unrealistic

[vogelap]

I was listening to the most-recent LAVE RADIO podcast (great work gang!) when they were discussing external views and how they'd break the realism of the world. (I disagree that it would break the world and would love to be able to admire my own ship externally.)

That made me think that there is a fundamental lapse of realism in the game, from the very beginning of Elite: Dangerous.

It is absolutely not realistic that you would be given a ship -- even a lowly Sidewinder -- without SOME training. More training that the game provides in the tutorials and in the manual. Imagine how much it costs in-game to build a station... Do you think they would let a greenhorn pilot anywhere near that?

Think about the amount of training (out-of-game) we receive to be allowed to drive an automobile. And that doesn't go at light speeds or float in space. Compare that to an in-game space craft. The lack of in-game training is very unrealistic.

 

[Tinman]

I was listening to the most-recent LAVE RADIO podcast (great work gang!) when they were discussing external views and how they'd break the realism of the world. (I disagree that it would break the world and would love to be able to admire my own ship externally.)

That made me think that there is a fundamental lapse of realism in the game, from the very beginning of Elite: Dangerous.

It is absolutely not realistic that you would be given a ship -- even a lowly Sidewinder -- without SOME training. More training that the game provides in the tutorials and in the manual. Imagine how much it costs in-game to build a station... Do you think they would let a greenhorn pilot anywhere near that?

Think about the amount of training (out-of-game) we receive to be allowed to drive an automobile. And that doesn't go at light speeds or float in space. Compare that to an in-game space craft. The lack of in-game training is very unrealistic.

So is the ability to fly said spaceship just fine after 1 hour of playtime...still many people do it anyway.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

You want to get all "realistic" there is very little likelihood that a planetary government would ever allow privately owned spaceships to fly anywhere near it. Even a smallish ship could do thermonuclear-grade levels of damage to the surface by impacting at a high rate of speed.

 

[Tarman]

What are you looking for, GT-style licencing? People don't want to be restricted from their favourite ride because they can't pull a 3-point turn around some cones. And I've seen plenty of real drivers for whom all that training was completely wasted anyway.

 

[Skip Intro]

There's a factory ship called GSV Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory just near LHS 3447 that churns out 100 Sidewinders an hour.

The Elite Universe works on a "punishment for anything is death" principle, so it's quite happy for any amount of pilots to fly out in a ship worth pennies to it and free to the Commander without any training or education.

Those that survive add to the economy / war effort etc., and those that don't? Well, there's plenty of free Sidewinders ready for more new meat...

 

[Cmdr Andy B]

sometimes realism has to take a back seat and this is one of those times, besides the fact that stations have shielding and in the ED universe life is cheap

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Those that survive add to the economy / war effort etc., and those that don't? Well, there's plenty of free Sidewinders ready for more new meat...

[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]the ones that die also add bio waste for the agri systems to use as fertilizer [/FONT]

 

[Barulf McBaren]

Not unrealistic because stations are indestructible!

 

[vogelap]

What are you looking for, GT-style licencing? People don't want to be restricted from their favourite ride because they can't pull a 3-point turn around some cones. And I've seen plenty of real drivers for whom all that training was completely wasted anyway.

That's true... Some drivers seem to have received just about as much training on real-life driving as we do in-game!

No, I am commenting that something like an EXTERNAL VIEW, which many people (myself included) seem to want, cannot break realism any more than it's been broken already. External cameras are a conceit to modern audiences. I agree that they should be toggle-able so those that do not want them do not have to see them, but let the player make the decision.

This is not a rant about the external camera. It is about realism and external camera is an example.

 

[CaptainBinky]

Notice that almost all the cockpits have visible signs of wear and tear? They're selling us the hand-me-downs, like the old model Vipers they have to keep recycling in the (now oldish I suppose but still) new Battlestar Galactica series

 

[Drayath]

It is absolutely not realistic that you would be given a ship -- even a lowly Sidewinder -- without SOME training. More training that the game provides in the tutorials and in the manual. Imagine how much it costs in-game to build a station... Do you think they would let a greenhorn pilot anywhere near that?

Sure they would, they just make the station of a material such that one flimsy floodlight can take a barrage of missiles, lasers and cannon shells and can still stop dead a 1000t vessel moving at the speed of sound; All without a scratch

 

[777Driver]

So is the ability to fly said spaceship just fine after 1 hour of playtime...still many people do it anyway.

Is it difficult to operate a car? Nope. Is it difficult to operate a car correctly and according to regulations? Yes, hence why we all took a course and demonstrated our ability.

Is it difficult to fly a plane? nope, I could teach most people to take off, fly a circuit and land in an hour or so (CAVOK) Is it difficult to operate an aircraft according to the CAA regulations? Yes Hence why you must demonstrate your ability to operate in different environments, be able to handle non normal procedures etc etc.

We just fly pretend spaceships in space, we don't need training except for a basic manual and simple understanding of how flight controls work.. We will never die or kill anyone in the process, That's all there is to it.

 

[Flashjoint]

I don't want to derail the discussion here, but isn't every game fundamentally unrealistic?
If you simulate or model every aspect of real life, it wouldn't be a game/fun anymore.

So I don't mind playing an unrealistic game as long as it is immersive.

 

[Tarman]

That's true... Some drivers seem to have received just about as much training on real-life driving as we do in-game!

No, I am commenting that something like an EXTERNAL VIEW, which many people (myself included) seem to want, cannot break realism any more than it's been broken already. External cameras are a conceit to modern audiences. I agree that they should be toggle-able so those that do not want them do not have to see them, but let the player make the decision.

This is not a rant about the external camera. It is about realism and external camera is an example.

So a sideways insertion of camera justification by way of other reality-breaking items. IDK if you can use the "well this is broken too so lets just do whatever" as a strong basis. You'll need justification for the camera on its own merits, not just because other things in a game about being a future spaceman aren't quite believable. Not that I'm saying cameras are evil, but that's a weak support for them to say that the FSD is unrealistic too.


EDIT: Or I could read what you wrote about realism. >______> But still, it's a space game set in the far future, there are plenty of unbelievable things and we haven't even seen the Thargoids yet. If it were too realistic we wouldn't be flying ships at all, robots would steal all our game.

 

[BBcokeley]

You want to get all "realistic" there is very little likelihood that a planetary government would ever allow privately owned spaceships to fly anywhere near it. Even a smallish ship could do thermonuclear-grade levels of damage to the surface by impacting at a high rate of speed.

Thumbs up, was thinking ISIS on a space level

 

[Valan]

I'm driving a futuristic spaceship across light years with less features than my car. Immersion borked 101.

 

[AluminumAlloy]

It is absolutely not realistic that you would be given a ship -- even a lowly Sidewinder -- without SOME training.

Quite right, your point is like EVE online where you began in a capsule (a very long time ago when I was in training in EVE online, do they still do this with the newbies?) for the very first moments of your training's.

 

[fademist]

type 7 with shileds rams a hauler without shields and type 7 dies....thats unrealistic lol

 

[Barulf McBaren]

@ OP: I think you shouldn't have started with that example^^

There are so many unrealistic things in the game, not only those that have to do with physics, but also for example economical.
Who would trade goods in a 70mio ship for 500 tons when he could also buy 70 type 6s for 7000 tons. I don't think wages for the pilots are that high in the future so that they would eat up all this profit.

 

[Scruluse]

I was listening to the most-recent LAVE RADIO podcast (great work gang!) when they were discussing external views and how they'd break the realism of the world. (I disagree that it would break the world and would love to be able to admire my own ship externally.)

That made me think that there is a fundamental lapse of realism in the game, from the very beginning of Elite: Dangerous.

It is absolutely not realistic that you would be given a ship -- even a lowly Sidewinder -- without SOME training. More training that the game provides in the tutorials and in the manual. Imagine how much it costs in-game to build a station... Do you think they would let a greenhorn pilot anywhere near that?

Think about the amount of training (out-of-game) we receive to be allowed to drive an automobile. And that doesn't go at light speeds or float in space. Compare that to an in-game space craft. The lack of in-game training is very unrealistic.

In the manual it states that you have passed training and have been provided a license by the Pilots Federation. There are also training tutorials. If players choose not to take the tutorials (training) then so be it.

 

[Derpster Frey]

Think of it like this:

You died and your clone just woke up in a new Sidewinder the insurance company paid for.
But something went wrong and the memory banks was erased.