ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing Pt.2

Fleet carrier shouldnt be referance point for game progress, also you didnt included in your calculations that you are losing only 10% of value of your vette hull if you decide to sell it, so actully with 1! session you made up for your corvette purchese, i wouldsay it's very generous payouts, even if you play less than 2h per day, i remind you, it's impossible to lose fully engineered ship to npc's
Nonsense!
It is quite possible to lose a fully engineered ship to NPCs, admittedly you have to be being greedy and inattentive at the time and of course remember that fully engineered does not mean the ship has an optimal build.
 
Mission timings, as well as number of kills required definitely does need adjusting/balancing. Some players only have an hour or two per day to play the game, in which case a Solo mission to kill 80 targets in 21 hours, is just not feasible. Even if every target takes say 2 minutes (Including hunting, interdicting, etc. which is completely unrealistic) that's 160 minutes to complete the mission, 2 hours 40 minutes... even if you drop into a signal source with 10 mission targets, by the time you've killed them all (Assuming none run away) and found the next one, you're still not hitting that 2 hour window of time to play. Now, this would be fine, if the mission was like 3 or 4 days like some of the planetary scan missions, or 7 days like some of the wing assassination missions, but they're not, they're 21 - 24 hours, if that CMDR can't guarantee they can play again within 24 hours, they're going to fail that mission. Also, why on earth would wing missions have 7 days and a solo with essentially the same number of targets only have 1 day? In a wing of 4, you can complete the wing missions any number of ways, all 4 of you drop into different signal sources and clean up, or you all drop into individual sources and clean each one quicker, then hunt for the next, if you're on your own, you don't have either of those options.
 
I thought ... In that case, mining is the weaker of all now in profit. shopping mall without a pulsewave scanner that correctly displays the field, mining takes not 3 hours but 8 hours and it turns out that even if you hand over 192 tons at 1kk, you get 20 million per hour ... yes, I did more on pirates in two hours yesterday
so think about what you don't understand
I heard about the problem of other players in mining, but speaking for myself, everything is fine for me, perhaps because of my experience in this business, I get 100kk at least an hour and a half in a relaxed way, up to 150- 160 if I strain myself. And yes, I feel the problem of PWS bug, without it I would farm even more.
 
Mission timings, as well as number of kills required definitely does need adjusting/balancing. Some players only have an hour or two per day to play the game, in which case a Solo mission to kill 80 targets in 21 hours, is just not feasible. Even if every target takes say 2 minutes (Including hunting, interdicting, etc. which is completely unrealistic) that's 160 minutes to complete the mission, 2 hours 40 minutes... even if you drop into a signal source with 10 mission targets, by the time you've killed them all (Assuming none run away) and found the next one, you're still not hitting that 2 hour window of time to play. Now, this would be fine, if the mission was like 3 or 4 days like some of the planetary scan missions, or 7 days like some of the wing assassination missions, but they're not, they're 21 - 24 hours, if that CMDR can't guarantee they can play again within 24 hours, they're going to fail that mission. Also, why on earth would wing missions have 7 days and a solo with essentially the same number of targets only have 1 day? In a wing of 4, you can complete the wing missions any number of ways, all 4 of you drop into different signal sources and clean up, or you all drop into individual sources and clean each one quicker, then hunt for the next, if you're on your own, you don't have either of those options.
I strongly second this!

Solo missions need more time to complete, especially the massacre once. At the minimum add 1 day more so we can logon again same time next day and complete it!
 
Your measures kinda suck tbh. Go to a compromised nav beacons, you will make 15 million within 10 minutes or so easily.

Compromised Nav beacons are unreliable and are not a good example of how much the average bounty hunter will make.

And I'd love to see evidence of someone earning 15m credit in 10 minutes. I feel you're massively over exaggerating.
 
while i find that everyone should be able to have a carrier if they want to i find they should carefully consider it, they are very exspensive and are just Mobile stations at the end, they arent for everyone. I can see them being usefull for deep space exploration though if said explorer has enough money on the carrier for it to last long since they can serve as a place to repair ships should your ship get damaged 10000 LY from the bubble. but yes everyone should have fun and not only grind, you dont need a Corvette or cutter to have fun. I have Flown my Krait mk2 for months now and i still enjoy using it, its my fav medium in the game

I agree that everyone should be able to get everything, that is intended to be owned by a single player. Also in a reasonable time frame, as not everyone can afford to make this game a job, like some people here suggest. A solution around this, especially for carriers, would be a system that allows squadron owned items. These then could be managed by certain player ranks, within the squadron. If members of a squadron could then "donate" a cut of their income (similar to what crew member take automatically) so the squadron can collectively own a carrier, that would help make this item feel more important (and ideally not have the entire galaxy cluttered with them). As it stands right now, only players who acquired riches before the changes, can enjoy the disproportional benefit of having huge cargo space and 500ly jump range, in that way.
 
I agree that everyone should be able to get everything, that is intended to be owned by a single player. Also in a reasonable time frame, as not everyone can afford to make this game a job, like some people here suggest. A solution around this, especially for carriers, would be a system that allows squadron owned items. These then could be managed by certain player ranks, within the squadron. If members of a squadron could then "donate" a cut of their income (similar to what crew member take automatically) so the squadron can collectively own a carrier, that would help make this item feel more important (and ideally not have the entire galaxy cluttered with them). As it stands right now, only players who acquired riches before the changes, can enjoy the disproportional benefit of having huge cargo space and 500ly jump range, in that way.
yes the only issues i still see is the carrier jumping to some loaction without people liking it and that may create alot of dead groups just so people can have their own carrier. and i think the clutered systems may have something to do with carriers being cross platform for all i know
 
It makes sense because then you have an extra metric to tell ships apart- An FdL and Mamba would require a lot of specialist repairs, while the FAS, FDS and FGS shovel sturdy bricks in comparison to the Chief, Challenger and Crusader say. Right now each one repairs the same, which is a missed opportunity for some depth.
To add even more depth, repair costs could depend on the controlling faction. So repairing a courier would be cheaper at an imperial starport🤔
 
I heard about the problem of other players in mining, but speaking for myself, everything is fine for me, perhaps because of my experience in this business, I get 100kk at least an hour and a half in a relaxed way, up to 150- 160 if I strain myself. And yes, I feel the problem of PWS bug, without it I would farm even more.
Well, what is the regeneration time of the asteroid belt after the core mining ? And I agree that in individual cases it is still possible, but this is more related to luck than to the skill of controlling the ship of the core mining or ssf mining. and in terms of time, it rather takes 2 hours in any mode ... for that we have 50kk per hour if ... IF you're lucky
 
So does this make Combat rank grinding slightly less infuriatingly slow? Or is that unaffected and this is solely a monetary change?
 
To add even more depth, repair costs could depend on the controlling faction. So repairing a courier would be cheaper at an imperial starport🤔
Making repair costs cheaper at stations that sell the ship/module in question (or, if the station doesn't have shipyard/outfitting enabled, would sell it if they had those services, as in they meet the faction/economic requirements) would be amazing.
 
Just want to hone in on this again and verify that this change has not taken into account the difficulty of opponents, and it really, really should.

As a contrast, using the same ship in both instances I did the following three fights:
  • Vanilla, unengineered Elite-rank Anaconda for an Assassination mission. It barely got me below half shields, =~ 1m credit payout + 4m mission reward.
  • Fully engineered Deadly rank Vulture at a Threat 5 Pirate Activity site. Knocked 30% of my hull, =~ 260k payout.
  • Fully engineered FDL, rank Deadly at a Threat 5 Pirate Activity site. Would have been a 1m credit bounty, but I had to flee.
In the first balance thread, it was said:



... if the aim here is to balance for skill, effort and risk, then the bounty payout on these Threat 5 & 6 targets is way out of whack. I can live with the lack of mission reward in the equation, but that vulture was a way tougher fight than the anaconda, and yet it pays out a quarter of that vanilla conda's bounty.

Meanwhile, that FDL would've paid the same as the anaconda, yet I couldn't even take it down.

The payout on engineered targets like this needs to be at least doubled or quadrupled again... vanilla targets simply shouldn't be paying out equal to or more than these ones.
Well, the bounty payout should depend on what the NPC is supposed to have done. However, a tougher (non-mission) NPC should have been capable of more badness than a weak one, so there should be a correlation. But there's room for a large RNG factor there...
 
Ages ago I suggested this:


There has to be some form of link between ship type, level (and type) of engineering and frequency of repairs, otherwise major parts of the game are slowly drifting away from each other. It should be IMO an unengineered T-9 should be easy to repair as well as cheap, and that it hardly ever requires repairs to begin with...while high performance hot rod bleeding edge engineered ships need constant maintenance.

If not, then repair cost and fuel are pointless.
Agree, that's a nice way of making an engineered ship more valuable than a less engineered one. Especially given the rebuy is the same regardless (and in fact you'll be paying it much less frequently in an engineered ship for the same task). I mean, we could increase the rebuy too on engi ships right? As in, put an excess on the insurance for all the extra fiddling and material sourcing required?
 
Hi, i'd like to see a change in weapons to rebalance ships somehow, it might be off topic.

My idea would be to nerf higher class weapons when shooting at smaller target, while smaller weapons still being highly accurate. For example, a ship that only have big hardpoints would be less effective against an eagle. That could be done by introducing some kind of dispersion or "acquisition time" on those big weapons, making it hard to hit small and fast moving targets. Big hardpoints would still be as effective against big targets but bigger ships would need support for dealing with small and agile vessels. This change could make small turreted hardpoints viable on big ships in order to defend themselves against smaller ones. Fighter hangar would become more viable. Some ships like the vulture would then specialize in taking out big ships since it has only class 3 hardpoints... I feel like this could introduce a lot of nuance in the ship balancing : right now, the big fish almost always eats the small one.

I think we should be incentivized to use small ships, right now they are just too weak.

It's barely the embryo of an idea, but it could lead to many interesting gameplay changes.

Cmdr Furmos
 
Ages ago I suggested this:


There has to be some form of link between ship type, level (and type) of engineering and frequency of repairs, otherwise major parts of the game are slowly drifting away from each other. It should be IMO an unengineered T-9 should be easy to repair as well as cheap, and that it hardly ever requires repairs to begin with...while high performance hot rod bleeding edge engineered ships need constant maintenance.

If not, then repair cost and fuel are pointless.
That's a great idea. They should be far more expensive to replace.
 
It could be done via:

base value for each ship

each module having its own complexity value plus grade (which are added up)

notoriety (i.e. if you are wanted, you need to do an under the table cash in hand repair)

location (rank locked ships being expensive in rival superpower locations, while neutral ships are set to 0) plus the proximity to high tech systems (for the parts- a station in the middle of nowhere needs to order them in an abstraction).
 
Well, what is the regeneration time of the asteroid belt after the core mining ? And I agree that in individual cases it is still possible, but this is more related to luck than to the skill of controlling the ship of the core mining or ssf mining. and in terms of time, it rather takes 2 hours in any mode ... for that we have 50kk per hour if ... IF you're lucky
No luck, only knowledge.
 
What the hell guys? "Balancing" doesn't just mean "Money" you know. People played this game back when missions only gave maybe a million in rewards max, and they enjoyed it because it was fun and challenging. Back when getting a Big-3 ship was an accomplishment, not a weekend grind. Back when you WANTED a Big-3 ship because they improved the game, not because it was a participation trophy. We don't want >income< balanced. We want the freaking GAME balanced! Remove idiotic "engineering" that turns a 1,000mj shield into a 12,000mj shield! Remove idiotic "lasers" that somehow restore more shield energy then any other weapon can deplete. Do something to make small ships actually useful instead of just a stepping stone to larger ships that you'll be able to afford after one mission. You know, BALANCE THE GAME!.

You are of course correct, however I think we have to accept that there are limitations as to what Frontier can do technically (the code is a total mess) and are willing to do (resources may not be deployed in significant amounts).

In short - anyone expecting a full rebalance needs to be prepared for disappointment.
 
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