ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing

Although not monetary balancing please also up the ammo on the shock cannons, at least double the magazine, maybe quadruple it. They are potent, but you can't engineer them and synth is really expensive. This may make them a bit more of an option compared to engineered frag cannons.

Also:

please lower mat requirements to unlock human tech. Right now the requirements are far too high for these edge case weapons. Have it low enough would make them impulse buy / unlock territory and encourage experimentation.
 
Starting with a nerf! How very un-fd.

My initial impression is, oh look Aunty Odyssey is coming, let's clean the house PDQ, when the message was "working as intended" until very recently.

Why not just buff things? Why the need for the nerfbat to be swung again?

And, really, the horse has bolted and gone way over the hills as people have mined themselves silly anyway, so in fairness to future players, why not just leave it?
Fdev is doing this wrong way round. They should first provide alternative to mining, as only reasonable source of income for most players, and THEN nerf mining if needed. I have a funny feeling that sorting out other activities in terms of income first would sort out mining issue altogether...
 
Fdev is doing this wrong way round. They should first provide alternative to mining, as only reasonable source of income for most players, and THEN nerf mining if needed. I have a funny feeling that sorting out other activities in terms of income first would sort out mining issue altogether...

The levels of income you are expecting are anything but reasonable. Current levels outside of mining are at an all-time high, and that's already ruining ship progression.
It's not just mining that needs to be nerfed, it's virtually everything, but mining is the crazy outlier.
 
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The truth is, you ARE playing the game. If you don't want to mine for hours, don't.

It's not that that the original posters talks about. It's about the lack of feeling of achievement - because most achievements don't feel "special" in any way.

Yes, you can put in a number of goals, but to achieve them, you mostly have to grind something. Missions, credits, kills.. It's a bit too much like life :D.

But a lot of us plays games to get away from the daily grind, to get some sense of achievement or discovery (even if a virtual one). But an important part of that is that your achievement is yours. That it's not just mindless grind, that it took you (or a community) some effort other than time to get in.

In Elite, TBH, I can think of some coop achievements like the last trade CG (where community did work together, even if it was spurred by the reward of double-FSD drive - because having that was an achievement, special to you), Admaster puzzle (the LP one) - even if the others were a bit too easy - and killing Goids is also an achievement, as while you can look at how to do it, it still takes some skill and learning (and risks rebuys).

You could even say that the original exploration was an achievement, as you got to be the first to be there, and had to figure out how to get there - but that's now mostly gone. We went from 15th-16th century of exploration to 20th, where just about everything that's not permit locked is accessible - sometimes not "easily" (as you may need FC), but most of the times "reasonably".

The lack of individual achievement, and of the surprise of the discovery, is now mostly gone, with the exception of CGs and FD in-game events. To me, that's where FD should concentrate more, as there's so much lore and stuff that could be discovered (individually and by community).

So to FDev I'd say make more cooperative CGs - for example, if there is AX/war going on, the traders have to supply the station, otherwise the repairs and rearms of the ships get worse and worse (yeah, I know, it would need significant redo), but creating a sense of not-easily-replicable achievement (community and/or individual), and the joy of discovery, is what should drive it.
 
Why not just buff things? Why the need for the nerfbat to be swung again?
Because the game has descended into a massive power and credit creep. One can make obscene amounts of money in very little time with very little effort and no skill whatsoever. Grab a laser, find a rock, start shooting.

I agree mining needs a nerf, even though I made a substantial amount of CR with it. LTDs have come a long way, Painite will now feel the pain, and core mining needs a buff to reflect the rarity of the core mined goods.

other activities barely cover costs, let alone a rebuy.
Assassination mission: Pays max 2m Credit. Usually involves some significant risk and requires some skill
Bounty hunting: 10-450k, nowhere to be found on the "getting rich" plans.
CZ: Long and tedious, pays sweet all
AX combat: 2m for a Cyclops to start with, You already need some skill for that plus a well engineered ship. If you are not a skilled AX pilot, but you want to become one, you will face a few rebuys, and it will take you a while until combat bonds of 2m will have covered your rebuys.

Smuggling: great game mechanic, just not realistically profitable. As others already pointed out: Stolen goods should be cheaper because you are trying to get rid of hot stuff. Illegal goods however should fetch a premium price, because they are prohibited, and you are taking a risk at bringing them to a station.

I for one welcome the game balance, to bring the credit earning back to a similar level, which reflects skill/risk/reward.
 
After this, we intend to look at increasing bounties and solo combat missions in the weeks that follow to meet expected levels. From there we can turn to the still important but less pressing elements such as other mission types and exploration.

I'm very exited about CQC paying a worthwhile amount. Thank you so much.
 
Grade-A example of where balance is needed right here.

View attachment 196188

For starters, 129 tonnes of Painite would be much easier to find... but how many of you would be happy to mine 129t of Painite for 9.8m credits?

That's a third of my mission board generation wasted.

Earlier in this thread, I mentioned that Salvage from POIs can and will be exploited by logging, especially if Salvage is increased in value.
Here is a direct tie in with your above example of bad mining missions, and the exploitable POIs.


System - California Sector JH-V c2-12
POI - Thomas Class Bulk Cargo Ship
Noted Salvage drops - Jadeite, Taaffeite, MetMonCry, LithHyd, BlkBox,
Noted Commodity drops = Tobac, Cryolite, Uraninite, ConTec, DomApp, Tea, Coffee, Bertrandite, Clothing, Rutile, Gallite, Wine, Beer, Coltan

The 3rd Salvage drop listed is Methanol Monohydrate Crystals.
You can just log in and out till you have the required amount of Methanol Monohydrate Crystals.

I really feel that they need to address the way loot and asteroid respawns work.

I totally agree with your proposed changes to mining missions. With mining missions being the higher payouts for mining, rather than the Market prices btw Jmanis.
I realise a fix so that only mined Ore can be handed in for mining missions would fix the above example. It wouldn't fix the fact POI Salvage can still be exploited by logging though.
 
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The levels of income you are expecting are anything BUT reasonable. Current levels outside of mining are already at a all-time high, and that's already ruining ship progression.
It's not just mining that needs to be nerfed, it's virtually everything, but mining is the crazy outlier.
And that is your opinion. Let's keep it like that. Looking at majority of comments here and there players have a different idea... Artificially expanding time to get anywhere in the game is recipe for disaster. Players are already complaining about grind, grind is real, and please don't deny it. If I hear that grind is self inflicted and I am doing it wrong my currently neutral opinion about you will drop to very low level...
 
Greetings Commanders!

Game balance has been at the heart of many discussions around Elite Dangerous, for a long time, and rightly so. At its core, Elite Dangerous is about blazing your own trail and we want all Commanders to feel fairly rewarded for whichever path they choose.

To this end, we have taken a close look at the current state of the game and where we would like it to be. Using our data combined with your feedback, we have created a plan of incremental changes we hope will bring the key gameplay mechanics more in line with each other.

What's Changing?

Elite Dangerous has seen a lot of changes since its release in 2014. Among many other aspects of the game, these changes have affected the core gameplay elements and how players earn credits. Over that time, while we have made some balancing adjustments, these elements have inevitably grown out of sync.

In response to your feedback, will bring a series of balancing adjustments to the rate at which credits are earned in each core gameplay mechanic: mining, trade, combat and exploration. Our goal is to have rewards better match the level of skill, effort, and risk each method requires. This means we'll see increased credit rates in some activities and reductions in others.

Crucially, this re-balancing will be an ongoing process where we spend time observing how the changes affect the game and how you, the community, respond both in-game and with your feedback. This may mean several adjustments are needed for each type of gameplay before settling on final values. Giving each method attention in isolation will allow us to more accurately see the results and tweak accordingly, hence the step by step approach, but ultimately they all need to work in the context of each other.

Mining and combat stand out from your feedback as needing the most attention with regards to balancing. As such, we will begin with mining, bring the top range down to a point we see as fair and look at which aspects of mining should offer the greatest rewards based on the skill required.

After this, we intend to look at increasing bounties and solo combat missions in the weeks that follow to meet expected levels. From there we can turn to the still important but less pressing elements such as other mission types and exploration.

These changes will be woven into Elite Dangerous lore and introduced through the narrative. The first can be expected early next week in the form of a GalNet article.

Mining and Trade

Mining has been the most lucrative role within Elite Dangerous for a long time. While this makes perfect sense as pilots find, extract, and transport huge quantities of precious minerals, the gap has become disproportional. This has allowed even brand new Commanders to become wealthy enough to buy the highest performing ships very quickly. For the health and longevity of Elite Dangerous, we're going to considerably reduce the payout of this activity so that it remains lucrative but players won't feel compelled to head out to the latest triple hotspot whenever they need credits.

The following changes will be implemented early next week as a starting point:

These approximate maximum prices offered by markets for the following commodities will be introduced:
  • Painite - 600,000
  • Low Temperature Diamonds - 700,000
  • Void Opals - 1,300,000

To recognise and reward the extra effort and skill needed for core mining, the majority of minerals extracted this way will see an increase in price, barring Void Opals mentioned above. Several mining commodities which can be bought will have the range of their prices increased, resulting in a higher number of goods with strong profit margins (25,000+) when commodity markets are in suitable states.

To benefit trade, we'll also bring the following changes:
  • Commodity markets will offer the average price rather than minimum price when selling in bulk. This will affect all commodities.
  • The base prices of a number of general salvage items will be increased.

What's Next?

As above, these first changes will happen early next week. We'll spend time observing their effects and listening to your feedback before deciding whether further adjustments are needed.

Next, we intend to adjust combat rewards in the form of bounties and mission payouts. You can expect to hear the planned changes before the date is announced in a post similar to this one.

Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding that this isn't a fast process and it will take time for the effects to become clear.

We would also most importantly like to thank you for your continued constructive feedback on this topic, which will be invaluable during this process!

Thanks for your support,

o7
Good news, thank you. All the preceding comments, this one and the ones after may all have a common theme.

In the past you have changed one thing to the detriment or exploit of another.

I hope you are looking at Every single aspect of the effect this may have.
It is almost like a live beta and I look forward to providing feedback.

This for me, was a long awaited post.
Regards
Pug
 
The levels of income you are expecting are anything BUT reasonable. Current levels outside of mining are already at a all-time high, and that's already ruining ship progression.
It's not just mining that needs to be nerfed, it's virtually everything, but mining is the crazy outlier.

I don't see how that's reasonable, at all. Or fun.
 
I don't see how that's reasonable, at all. Or fun.
Maybe people would take some time to explore the game & its possibilities in smaller ships for a while.
Instead of rushing to Anaconda, not knowing what to do with it and quitting. And/or just whine that they "need" to get a fleet carrier with just few hours of gameplay.
 
But why do they grind?
Don't tell me it's because "everyone" "needs" a Fleet Carrier and "must" get it within a week of installing the game?
Well, they probably do that because:

1. getting better ships - say big two at least - require rank, that is grind and there is no way around it,
2. Buying and kitting out any ship require money, money can be obtained very slow from anything apart from mining - and that's a grind,
3. Engineering is a two way grind, Felicity is easy as she will unlock on its own, Qwent - most useless of them all - require, grind for permit for Sirius, grind for modular terminals (this is RNG missions discussed somewhere else in this forum), you also need engineering materials and that is MOTHER OF ALL GRIND!
4. Palin require 5000ly trip out to black - that on its own require right ship and loudout, and for few players it is massive wall,
5. With all the above fleet carrier is beyond reach of many players, some (like me) make conscious choice not to get one as I have no use for FC,

I love The Dweller though, very straight forward, you sell illegal stuff to black market, pay 500k and voila... So it is possible to make it bearable...

The thing is that to enjoy the game the way PLAYER WANTS, player has to go through stupid loops to get the tool to actually play/have fun (better ship)... I do appreciate that grind is expected to some extent but for goodness sake, what ED does is massive overkill... And please just for a minute think about MAJORITY of players. Majority of players are casuals with families, full time jobs. Those ppl do not have infinite amount of time to spend grinding... And suggesting to go and play different game is also stupid. There is really no other game that would give one the opportunity to fly around Milky Way galaxy. No SC does not count... So people grind as there is no other way of getting anywhere in ED...
 
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It is ridiculous to change mining without fixing the PWA first. How can we give feedback when the equipment is still broken?
I agree the PWA issue has been a pain in the bum (expletive), but I hope they are looking at Everything all at once, I'm going to wait for the first fix and comment then.
It won't change 'their' mind to know 'my' mind! What's going to change is Going to change. Lets see how they do.

Crack on Bruce-
 
Grade-A example of where balance is needed right here.

View attachment 196188

For starters, 129 tonnes of Painite would be much easier to find... but how many of you would be happy to mine 129t of Painite for 9.8m credits?

That's a third of my mission board generation wasted.
I think that would be part of the balancing.
Always tossing up between: Mining what's on the board or the same amount in LTD/Painite. If the latter wins, then the mission isn't worth it.
I know there are other rewards than just cash like the MEF or rep, but in this case I'm just looking at the credits, since painite would be sold for hard cash.
 
Maybe people would take some time to explore the game & its possibilities in smaller ships for a while.
Instead of rushing to Anaconda, not knowing what to do with it and quitting. And/or just whine that they "need" to get a fleet carrier with just few hours of gameplay.

Bit of a lazy, tired stereotype, that one, I'm sad to say.

Why do some not realise that people want to play a game, not always run a second business called Elite Dangerous? Some people like playing a game for a bit, then moving on. And let's face it, Elite's problem isn't credits, it's the shallowness of the experience/lack of meaning and the bugs really.

Playing the game in smaller ships is certainly possible after the Anaconda is achieved. If someone wants to rush, fair play to them, it's their game, their experience, and not for me to say it's the wrong way to play.
 
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