Game feedback

[Vision1776]

I honestly do not plan on buying any future Season passes. I have been completely let down by Horizons. There is not enough openness in the development process and all I hear are dead end promises. I have seen no results in 2 + years. Your galaxy is so full of great potential but your lead game designers or whoever is in charge over there has no idea how to capture the essence of this game. There are way too many random game features being force fed down our throats like Powerplay and Engineers or Holo-Me. All of these seem so seperated from the game as if they are their own mini games that are separate from the universe. They also at times seems to break known rules. Progression in this game is beyond slow and combined with a major lack of accomplishment or sense of reward. There is nothing to explore or find except for the few hand placed persistent POIs like Barnacles or puzzles which you expect us to find by looking and searching for real life YEARS. There are like a billion planets and what you are doing is generating random noise around the player. It feels like I am in an episode of the Truman show and I caught on to the lies. The USSs and the POIs that appear near me dont feel real to me, rather fake, random noise that was generated only because I was there in the area. Just because"persistence is complicated" doesn't mean that you have to put it off and focus easy features like Engineers or Holo-Me. Your team needs to stop and fix all the current state of the game. Improve on what is already there before adding more icing to the cake. The cake itself is dry and tasteless, adding more icing to a pile.

You have not proven to me or many in the community that you are capable of delivering real features for exploration, or mining, or trading, or pirating. All you keep adding are more ways of doing the same thing (Combat). Yes your combat is fun and well looking and sounds great. But space is not about fighting never ending pirates. Space is a massive mystery waiting to be explored. This game does not accomplish this very well. There is also no sense of accomplishment when trading. You barely scratch any sort of change to the markets. Mining is so grindy. I mean why do limpets have to explode all the time? Why cant I launch more than just a few? Why is the refinery so annoying to use at times? Why does it take so much time to do this and yet you are barely rewarded with any real money compared to farming creeps (I mean bounty hunting, if you can call it that)?

I know that my words hurt but you need to start listening to people who are upset because they actually care about the state and the future of the game. If you only listen to the yes-men, sooner or later you are going to find yourselves in a bit a pickle wondering what you could have done to change or improve. I know that I am not alone. I want to let you know that all this hard work you did with this latest patch or update with "The Commanders" did not interest me in the slightest. This update provides nothing new for me and many other people. I am not going to play this game until I see new breathe of life and a slight change of direction where there is less focus on grind, PVP, and time sinks galore. Make space great again before someone else does it for you.

 

[Jaylem]

Yeah you ain't the only one... I think 2.3 has been a bit of a wake up call to FDev (so we hope). I too am after a more immersive experience. I wouldn't mind seeing more powerplay and Engineer focused involvement as you say.

But you have to give credit where due...despite the cons there are an amazing factors to this game that makes it pretty damn awesome. and these can be expanded on

Don't give up hope...to get past every mountain you have to go up hill first

 

[psyantologist]

Your complaints are valid - yet I wonder what you would suggest as improvements. It's easy to say "your lead dev has no idea what to do with the game" while not having a single idea oneself.

About one aspect where you went into detail: You can outfit more than one Collector Limpet Controller (or use a higher class) to get quite a lot of limpets to fly around. Limpets explode when you have your ships belly turned towards an obstacle so limpets crash into it when trying to reach your cargo hold/refinery. This also happens when you mine an asteroid at an unfortunate spot, so the fragments stay close to it as it rotates. IN this scenario, the rock can squish limpets as they try to collect the fragments. Try mining at the "poles", the rotational axis, rather than mining at the "equator" of an asteroid. Or don't mind at all if you don't like mining.

Annnnd, yes, the refinery is a bit weird at times and complains about being full.

 

[Vision1776]

Yeah you ain't the only one... I think 2.3 has been a bit of a wake up call to FDev (so we hope). I too am after a more immersive experience. I wouldn't mind seeing more powerplay and Engineer focused involvement as you say.

But you have to give credit where due...despite the cons there are an amazing factors to this game that makes it pretty damn awesome. and these can be expanded on

Don't give up hope...to get past every mountain you have to go up hill first

With Elite Dangerous it just feels like we are going up hill the whole time to the point where they are all but exhausted already and progress is dragging slow! I have been patiently waiting for exploration features for ages it seems.

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I did a whole lot of mining, thanks for all that response though. I understand all the complexities in mining but there are too many bugs in the activity. Things that they could build on and improve but never seem to do it. Make the AI for those limpets much better. I mean they are drones. A computer should be able to calculate not crashing into a spinning rock. And on smaller ships you really cant outfit that many limpets. They should double their numbers. To fix grind, all you have to do is make it more rewarding and tone down the grind and time sink so that it is FAIR with the reward.

If they cant figure out how to do proper path-finding near a rock then give those limpets ray guns that pull the particle to them once they reach a certain distance. Also show damage to the rock when you are mining it. The rock's shape should change based on how much cutting you have done.

Your complaints are valid - yet I wonder what you would suggest as improvements. It's easy to say "your lead dev has no idea what to do with the game" while not having a single idea oneself.

I have given so many suggestions over the last 2 years. I have lost all my energy. They never listened and I never saw even a hint that my suggestions were even read.

 

[Hydrino]

With Elite Dangerous it just feels like we are going up hill the whole time to the point where they are all but exhausted already and progress is dragging slow! I have been patiently waiting for exploration features for ages it seems.
- - - Updated - - -
I did a whole lot of mining, thanks for all that response though. I understand all the complexities in mining but there are too many bugs in the activity. Things that they could build on and improve but never seem to do it. Make the AI for those limpets much better. I mean they are drones. A computer should be able to calculate not crashing into a spinning rock. And on smaller ships you really cant outfit that many limpets. They should double their numbers. To fix grind, all you have to do is make it more rewarding and tone down the grind and time sink so that it is FAIR with the reward.

If they cant figure out how to do proper path-finding near a rock then give those limpets ray guns that pull the particle to them once they reach a certain distance. Also show damage to the rock when you are mining it. The rock's shape should change based on how much cutting you have done.

I have given so many suggestions over the last 2 years. I have lost all my energy. They never listened and I never saw even a hint that my suggestions were even read.

They do listen, they mention it all the time. They check the Forums. But, they have gotten 100,000 suggestions in the last two years, so any given wish list is not going to happen.

What FD do is take some easy suggestions they like and maybe throw them in the short-term pipeline (like bobbleheads of our Solar System or common bodies like stars and ringed planets and earth-likes; I made that one and an Earth bobblehead at least is coming, trust me (maybe already planned, but I did suggest it here some time ago).

What FD do with the rest is take an aggregate view; threads prompting the biggest number of responses and reputation rewards. It is the only logical, workable way one can imagine for FD to deal with daily feedback from thousands of players. And don't forget most players do not participate in the forums, and FD have knowledge of what masses of players are doing in the game that we do not.

So the worry is what FD sees as the hottest forum topics and player requests. They already said #1 request is continuing to enhance missions, which they have steadily been doing. What else then? Enhancing existing game loops/careers, crime and punishment, Power Play and Player Factions/ guilds/ tools-gameplay.

So it is good you post this thread to add to the "work on existing stuff" feedback. And good that it gets replies.

Based on that, my sense of the future direction is (and of course I could be wrong):
*2.4 Aliens as we all know that is coming
*3.0 Atmospheres announce at Gamescom, released late November or early December
*3.0 should obviously add to existing game loops like fuel scooping and mining in gas giants, along with the obvious further development of planet tech FD has been working on
*3.1+ DLC focused on what they already have, expanding existing game loops

If FD don't do that, well, I'll be disappointed too.

 

[Konnivar]

From the sounds of things 3.0+ will have a bigger focus on improving existing game systems. In Braben's latest Q&A session questions like "when is mining getting updated", "when are we getting more SRVs", and "when is exploration getting updated" were asked and the reply was "in a future season." While a bit upsetting that it will be a ways in the future it's good to know that changes are in the pipeline.

These updates take much longer than we perceive they do; just use HoloMe and Multi-Crew as examples. In the first live streams showcasing HoloMe and Multi-crew they spoke about how they had been working on those two features for over a year!

Solid points, I've played plenty of games that add a new feature then never build on it (Arc-wing in Warframe comes to mind). If you want to talk about neglected systems in Elite look no further than CQC the feature stuck in a perpetual feedback loop of despair:

FDev:"We don't work on it because players don't use it."
Players:"We don't use it because FDev doesn't work on it."
.
.
.

 

[psyantologist]

A lot of sense made here cheers!

 

[Vision1776]

As many are calling in the community I too share the opinion that leadership roles need to be changed in the FDEV. There seems to be too many "Childish" game features added over the last 2 years. Things that break logic and what seem like rules of this sci-fi universe. Features that get added that quickly die and never get used. Features that get added that no one even asked for EVER in any forum thread, and that seem separate from the game itself.

Look at Multi-crew, Dead on arrival.
Look at CQC, dead
Look at Engineers, remember all the hate? I am someone who still refuses to participate in engineers. It is too much of a grind to even bother. Actually, I stopped playing altogether when that update came out.
Look at Powerplay, it is dead.

All of these features seems silly and dead. When are we going to see a change of direction catered towards the actual target audience instead of children? It has been 2 years. Im so sorry but I give up.

 

[Konnivar]

As many are calling in the community I too share the opinion that leadership roles need to be changed in the FDEV. There seems to be too many "Childish" game features added over the last 2 years. Things that break logic and what seem like rules of this sci-fi universe. Features that get added that quickly die and never get used. Features that get added that no one even asked for EVER in any forum thread, and that seem separate from the game itself.

What defines "Childish" game features? [sarcasm/] This is a game and aren't ALL games meant for children? [/sarcasm] Jokes aside there are plenty of things that have been in the game since release that break logic like: when my ship blows up at beagle point and I end up back at sol instantly with a brand new ship the exact same as the one that blew up, I can SEE my laser beam as a line (not a dot on target), FTL travel in up to 1000c, etc.

I don't agree with some of their explanations for features (like holome multi crew) but that doesn't mean I reject the feature, I can make up my own head cannon if I really want to reason it out.

People may not have specifically asked for CQC, Powerplay, or Engineers but they were added for something people were asking for. In the case of CQC it was for risk free PvP combat and Powerplay was added to create meaningful PvP content, something that was and is asked for and still needed. Engineers were introduced to add more variety to combat and individual ships without needing to introduce new ships into the game. While I would like new ships it is much more difficult to add a new ship than to create a system that lets me tweak the stats of a current ship.

The only feature that I agree seems separate from the game itself is CQC because it literally is.


I agree that all of the systems that you mentioned need work, but I don't see them as "Childish" features that are separate from the game (with the exception of CQC) and no one asked for.

 

[Hydrino]

What defines "Childish" game features? [sarcasm/] This is a game and aren't ALL games meant for children? [/sarcasm] Jokes aside there are plenty of things that have been in the game since release that break logic like: when my ship blows up at beagle point and I end up back at sol instantly with a brand new ship the exact same as the one that blew up, I can SEE my laser beam as a line (not a dot on target), FTL travel in up to 1000c, etc.

I don't agree with some of their explanations for features (like holome multi crew) but that doesn't mean I reject the feature, I can make up my own head cannon if I really want to reason it out.

People may not have specifically asked for CQC, Powerplay, or Engineers but they were added for something people were asking for. In the case of CQC it was for risk free PvP combat and Powerplay was added to create meaningful PvP content, something that was and is asked for and still needed. Engineers were introduced to add more variety to combat and individual ships without needing to introduce new ships into the game. While I would like new ships it is much more difficult to add a new ship than to create a system that lets me tweak the stats of a current ship.

The only feature that I agree seems separate from the game itself is CQC because it literally is.


I agree that all of the systems that you mentioned need work, but I don't see them as "Childish" features that are separate from the game (with the exception of CQC) and no one asked for.

A well reasoned post.
+1

But I also agree with the deluge of opinion the last 6 months being quite strong, that FD need to focus on what they have a bit more and late game content and stop rolling out new features for a bit. With the exception of the "Major" expansions like atmospheres - I want that to roll in Q4 this year regardless of the other point updates coming. Oh and Aliens, bring them on as well- but even Aliens will benefit from expanded core profession gameplay.

One need look no further than the DDF for still having a wealth of features to implement that FD outlined the first year. While some may be impractical, my hope is that most are still on the list and will feature prominently in Season 3.

 

[psyantologist]

The funny thing is: I learned to love CQC after I hated it for a lil while. The different feel of flying a small ship in a fast-paced DM/TDM environment is quite thrilling (I never managed to get into a CTF game)

The music is plain fantastic. I get goose-bumps just thinking about one track in there that has this Tron feeling to it.

But, yeah, it needs some love. Match-making got a notch better at some point (as in: it started to work)
It could use a lobby to chat and form teams. And I would welcome player created games with game setting to replace the score limit with a time limit. When playing against folks who are good, the games end way too quickly, to my taste. But that's a matter of personal taste.

A few more maps would be nice, too. Feels like we're flying in two and a half maps all the time. I would also love to see CQC used for "indoors" arenas that revive the feel of Descent, even if only partially. I don't expect unique three-dimensional mazes to explore and get out of again under time-pressure - even though a Descent-clone with the Cobra engine would be plain mind-blowing, I imagine.

 

[Hydrino]

The funny thing is: I learned to love CQC after I hated it for a lil while. The different feel of flying a small ship in a fast-paced DM/TDM environment is quite thrilling (I never managed to get into a CTF game)

The music is plain fantastic. I get goose-bumps just thinking about one track in there that has this Tron feeling to it.

But, yeah, it needs some love. Match-making got a notch better at some point (as in: it started to work)
It could use a lobby to chat and form teams. And I would welcome player created games with game setting to replace the score limit with a time limit. When playing against folks who are good, the games end way too quickly, to my taste. But that's a matter of personal taste.

A few more maps would be nice, too. Feels like we're flying in two and a half maps all the time. I would also love to see CQC used for "indoors" arenas that revive the feel of Descent, even if only partially. I don't expect unique three-dimensional mazes to explore and get out of again under time-pressure - even though a Descent-clone with the Cobra engine would be plain mind-blowing, I imagine.

I agree exactly. But I can see FD's conundrum with CQC. Are they better off devoting all the Dev time that would take into the main game instead?

I think with bots and a smart lobby and private match system (and maybe just a couple more modes) that CQC would be fun again for me.

But unless I join on a Friday or Saturday during times when a lot of Europeans might be playing PC games, I just sit in the lobby, literally don't get any matches. That is probably the single biggest flaw.

The request list isn't long... sad to see FD gave up on CQC without trying to fix the short list of big issues. But, it was always a side-show for me compared to the main game.

 

[Konnivar]

*snip*

*snip*

After reading the OP I made a thread to try and address some of the big issues regarding CQC (click here) and ways of fixing them.


With regards to what feature I think should be re-evaluated first would be professions, namely Trade and Exploration (including mining!). Second would be the mission system, more diverse and interesting missions. Third would be Powerplay, expanding its influence and encouraging meaningful PvP (and PvE) interactions. Fourth would be planetary landings, new SRVs and volcanism. Last would be a balance pass on all ships/new ships.

 

[psyantologist]

I agree exactly. But I can see FD's conundrum with CQC. Are they better off devoting all the Dev time that would take into the main game instead?

I think with bots and a smart lobby and private match system (and maybe just a couple more modes) that CQC would be fun again for me.

But unless I join on a Friday or Saturday during times when a lot of Europeans might be playing PC games, I just sit in the lobby, literally don't get any matches. That is probably the single biggest flaw.

The request list isn't long... sad to see FD gave up on CQC without trying to fix the short list of big issues. But, it was always a side-show for me compared to the main game.

I agree. That includes the bit about dev time. Bots is an excellent point, too. And, yeah, a side-show it is.

 

[Vision1776]

I want you guys to understand something. There are so many people, members of this community, who have voiced their opinions in the past and then no one ever heard from them again. There is a silent majority that just watches the progress of this game. They come back usually around the major updates like this one to try things out and then leave again when they realize nothing of substance has changed or gotten better.

I break my silence from time to time and usually around big updates like this one. If Frontier only listens to those active forum members who just love the game no matter what happens, the game will die. It is on you guys to stop doing that, and start to actually make the others heard. Im out. See you guys in the next update.

 

[psyantologist]

Frontier do listen. It's a challenge to try to get a grasp of what works best (sometimes, what people want to enjoy a game is not what they need to enjoy it) and where to head from here when thousands of people are yelling at you, some more articulate than others, while - as pointed out - the majority of players does not express their feedback. It would be foolish to follow the ones who scream the loudest; i.e. for instant gratification as if that would solve a grind curve problem in a meaningful way.