I just thought it was a rather amusing comparison of all the medieval fantasy tropes.OMG GOT IS SHREK?!! LOL
General / Off-Topic Game of Thrones - Season 8 (Potential spoilers inside)
- Thread starter Agony_Aunt
- Start date
It's hilarious! Although I presume a similar thing could be done with GOT and LOTR!
Or any other fantasy, really. That's the point of Shrek. It's a parody so it borrows and makes fun of clichés everybody uses.
It's just even more funny when it works retroactively.
My God Chris Simon. Just when I was finally getting over my disappointment.
Those revelations were mind blowing.
Then there's always been my gnawing suspicion of Alduin's escape from Skyrim. And this rogue Aedra's time travel caused him to develop a split personality. Had a sneaking suspicion that the Son of Akatosh making a fool out of himself by masquerading as Drogon/Viserion/Rhaegar was bad enough.
Just when I've nearly dissuaded my paranoia, along came the TES universe giants straight outta Hardhome. With a horde of misanthrope facist Snow Elves to boot.....
And if that wasn't bad enough, there's the Twilight franchise wolves deluding themselves the last 8+ years into believing they were truly House Stark Dire Wolves? Hell House Braetheon & Frey even rep'd Disney with Bambi and Nemo-on-steroids for their sigils.
I mean seriously. The Hounds SHIRT = Shrek's SHIRT. Right down to the very clothing texture/fabric at that lowest level of detail??
That being said, I'd really, really, really, REALLY hate to think D&D were so creatively bankrupt, that they had to stoop to the level ofplagerizing innovative capital taking heavy creative license and/or drawing inspiration from prolific franchises like Pixar. And particularly the likes of the Shrek franchise in so many coincidental ways. Because the brain deficit of the final season most disturbingly suggests that.....
Those revelations were mind blowing.
Then there's always been my gnawing suspicion of Alduin's escape from Skyrim. And this rogue Aedra's time travel caused him to develop a split personality. Had a sneaking suspicion that the Son of Akatosh making a fool out of himself by masquerading as Drogon/Viserion/Rhaegar was bad enough.
Just when I've nearly dissuaded my paranoia, along came the TES universe giants straight outta Hardhome. With a horde of misanthrope facist Snow Elves to boot.....
And if that wasn't bad enough, there's the Twilight franchise wolves deluding themselves the last 8+ years into believing they were truly House Stark Dire Wolves? Hell House Braetheon & Frey even rep'd Disney with Bambi and Nemo-on-steroids for their sigils.
I mean seriously. The Hounds SHIRT = Shrek's SHIRT. Right down to the very clothing texture/fabric at that lowest level of detail??
That being said, I'd really, really, really, REALLY hate to think D&D were so creatively bankrupt, that they had to stoop to the level of
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Nah, you can't blame the actors. They literally do what they're told. The ones that don't end up fired or with producer credits.
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Over the years I've watched every single episode of GoT three times, except for S8 E6, which I've now watched twice.
Before anyone shouts 'too vested' I'm by no means a GoT cosplayer and it wouldn't even rank in my top 5 TV shows. Probably my favourite is Breaking Bad. Fave movie is Pulp Fiction. Fave game is SFII. So, pretty mainstream. I've read all the GoT books and although I like them (well, the earlier ones, before the pace died), GRRM wouldn't make my top 5 fantasy authors. Probably not top 10 (which is no insult).
And yet...
...I have never personally been so disappointed by such a drop in quality of any major TV show. I've never in my life even reviewed a TV show online before, but I have now done that (several times) for GoT S8 on the major sites so I could one-star vent. (I don't feel much better.)
I am not an indiscriminate hater. I don't agree with the indiscriminate hate about everything the writers attempted. To pick a random example: I don't agree with those who say that Arya acted out of character by accepting some fatherly advice from the Hound and getting out of Dodge. Seeking parental figures and (to a large extent) obeying them is what Arya does, consistent with her orphanage as a child: think Dancing Master, think Yoren (the Nightswatch guy), the Hound himself, Jaqen, the actress lady and to an extent her elder brother Jon. Arya acted entirely in character imho when she did as a surrogate-dad said. She's not a Faceless Man - she's still, deep down, the naughty yet brave Stark child, which is why she left the Faceless Men.
There are many other ways in which I would be happy to defend the production team's decision-taking.
And yet...
...the Darth Dany story arc - actually, I can't continue, it wasn't an arc - sorry...
...the Darth Dany story trapdoor was about the most amateurish attempt at writing I've ever watched and seemed to me to insult both the audience and the characters.
This was the woman who we've watched overcome extreme adversity always via four key assets: self-belief, leadership/charisma, ruthlessness towards enemies, compassion towards innocents.
The self-belief stayed. The leadership/charisma was diluted (but I'll let that go). The ruthless towards enemies ... well, yes.
So that leaves 'compassion towards innocents'. I haven't looked on the internet for a list but let me just type a sample myself:
We're told that Dany had endured some reversals (Mithrandei, dragon being shot, nephew refusing to kiss her with tongues). Hence, without warning, her mind snapped. OK...
...but this is the woman who endured:
And throughout all the above she never once faltered.
In S8 we watched a woman behaving entirely rationally in her decision to go North to the fight the Night King, conducting herself before and after the battle sensibly, attempting negotiation with Sansa - basically, Dany being Dany - and then without any apparent explanation characters started saying that they were worried about her mental state. At that time there had literally been no scene in which her mental state was in issue.
Next thing it's E5: Dany is refusing to get out of bed or eat, hasn't done her makeup and is clearly a rich teenager in need of an expensive stay in a clinic. Why?
Next thing it's E6 and about the most bizarrely edited sequence occurs:
So the better part of a decade of characterisation goes in the trash can. And this being done to the second most iconic character in modern fantasy (after Harry Potter). So, arguably, the most iconic character of modern adult fantasy.
It is this - this alone - that I personally feel was the nadir of bad writing. There was much in both S7 and S8 that I felt was credible and even in some ways superior to the previous seasons. But not this. There was time for one final insult afterwards, though...
After Jon's fateful thrust the final insult for me was that apparently rather than slaughtering the traitor the Unsullied then hold him imprisoned for several weeks while Sansa comes from Winterfell. The Dothraki response to the death of the Khaleesi is never shown, presumably because there is literally nothing that even this production team would have deemed credible. Half of Westeros would have been burned and pillaged (which was an age-old Dorthraki ambition) before the various irrelevant non-entities arrived in King's Landing for their committee meeting. The broken remnants of the post-Rob Stark Northern army are going to stop Unsullied and Dothraki? Don't make me laugh.
Then: the guy who told the murderer to kill the Queen chooses the King, the committee agree, the King says the murder-organiser can be the most important person in the country after him, the murderer gets a holiday in his favourite place in the country, the Unsullied and the Dothraki say, 'this is fine, we can't argue with a committee of our foreign powerless enemies, after all' and the credits roll.
Like another poster I found myself wondering whether perhaps Drogon might take Dany to the High Priestess of the Red God. But by then I was clutching at straws. It wasn't the essence of the Darth Dany storyline I found impossible to believe, it was the sheer amateurishness with which it was actually delivered.
Before anyone shouts 'too vested' I'm by no means a GoT cosplayer and it wouldn't even rank in my top 5 TV shows. Probably my favourite is Breaking Bad. Fave movie is Pulp Fiction. Fave game is SFII. So, pretty mainstream. I've read all the GoT books and although I like them (well, the earlier ones, before the pace died), GRRM wouldn't make my top 5 fantasy authors. Probably not top 10 (which is no insult).
And yet...
...I have never personally been so disappointed by such a drop in quality of any major TV show. I've never in my life even reviewed a TV show online before, but I have now done that (several times) for GoT S8 on the major sites so I could one-star vent. (I don't feel much better.)
I am not an indiscriminate hater. I don't agree with the indiscriminate hate about everything the writers attempted. To pick a random example: I don't agree with those who say that Arya acted out of character by accepting some fatherly advice from the Hound and getting out of Dodge. Seeking parental figures and (to a large extent) obeying them is what Arya does, consistent with her orphanage as a child: think Dancing Master, think Yoren (the Nightswatch guy), the Hound himself, Jaqen, the actress lady and to an extent her elder brother Jon. Arya acted entirely in character imho when she did as a surrogate-dad said. She's not a Faceless Man - she's still, deep down, the naughty yet brave Stark child, which is why she left the Faceless Men.
There are many other ways in which I would be happy to defend the production team's decision-taking.
And yet...
...the Darth Dany story arc - actually, I can't continue, it wasn't an arc - sorry...
...the Darth Dany story trapdoor was about the most amateurish attempt at writing I've ever watched and seemed to me to insult both the audience and the characters.
This was the woman who we've watched overcome extreme adversity always via four key assets: self-belief, leadership/charisma, ruthlessness towards enemies, compassion towards innocents.
The self-belief stayed. The leadership/charisma was diluted (but I'll let that go). The ruthless towards enemies ... well, yes.
So that leaves 'compassion towards innocents'. I haven't looked on the internet for a list but let me just type a sample myself:
- Protecting the women of the Lamb Men from by her husband's Dothraki, at the expense of political capital and, ultimately, her husband's life
- Insisting that the Unsullied harmed only the Masters
- Chaining her dragons underground because Drogon ate a goatherd
- Enduring endless provocations in Mereen whilst remaining focused only on wrongdoers, not general terror
- Insisting for an entire series that so great was her respect for human life that not even volunteer gladiators could kill one another
- Eventually relenting and watching the contest with disgust
We're told that Dany had endured some reversals (Mithrandei, dragon being shot, nephew refusing to kiss her with tongues). Hence, without warning, her mind snapped. OK...
...but this is the woman who endured:
- The loss of her entire family except her mad brother
- Being brought up by her mad brother
- Being, in essence, human-trafficked
- (she herself described her first night as , even though she later fell in love with the marital )
- Death of brother (for whom she still had some feelings)
- Loss of beloved husband
- Loss of unborn son
- Crossing the Red Waste
- Death of her most loyal blood-rider
- Loss of many friends and supporters eg Ser Barristan
- Loss of first dragon
And throughout all the above she never once faltered.
In S8 we watched a woman behaving entirely rationally in her decision to go North to the fight the Night King, conducting herself before and after the battle sensibly, attempting negotiation with Sansa - basically, Dany being Dany - and then without any apparent explanation characters started saying that they were worried about her mental state. At that time there had literally been no scene in which her mental state was in issue.
Next thing it's E5: Dany is refusing to get out of bed or eat, hasn't done her makeup and is clearly a rich teenager in need of an expensive stay in a clinic. Why?
Next thing it's E6 and about the most bizarrely edited sequence occurs:
- The Lannister soldiers throw down their arms
- The city rings the bells in surrender (a signal which Dany had pre-agreed, with Tyrion and Grey Worm, to accept)
- Dany looks at the Red Keep
- Dany flies Drogon directly towards the Red Keep and Cersei, gaining height therefore
- Dany and Drogon are teleported back to near the city gates, much lower down, now traversing the city, at about 90 degrees to previous direction of travel
- Dany slaughters the civilian population without point, reason, benefit or explanation
So the better part of a decade of characterisation goes in the trash can. And this being done to the second most iconic character in modern fantasy (after Harry Potter). So, arguably, the most iconic character of modern adult fantasy.
It is this - this alone - that I personally feel was the nadir of bad writing. There was much in both S7 and S8 that I felt was credible and even in some ways superior to the previous seasons. But not this. There was time for one final insult afterwards, though...
After Jon's fateful thrust the final insult for me was that apparently rather than slaughtering the traitor the Unsullied then hold him imprisoned for several weeks while Sansa comes from Winterfell. The Dothraki response to the death of the Khaleesi is never shown, presumably because there is literally nothing that even this production team would have deemed credible. Half of Westeros would have been burned and pillaged (which was an age-old Dorthraki ambition) before the various irrelevant non-entities arrived in King's Landing for their committee meeting. The broken remnants of the post-Rob Stark Northern army are going to stop Unsullied and Dothraki? Don't make me laugh.
Then: the guy who told the murderer to kill the Queen chooses the King, the committee agree, the King says the murder-organiser can be the most important person in the country after him, the murderer gets a holiday in his favourite place in the country, the Unsullied and the Dothraki say, 'this is fine, we can't argue with a committee of our foreign powerless enemies, after all' and the credits roll.
Like another poster I found myself wondering whether perhaps Drogon might take Dany to the High Priestess of the Red God. But by then I was clutching at straws. It wasn't the essence of the Darth Dany storyline I found impossible to believe, it was the sheer amateurishness with which it was actually delivered.
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Yeah, Kit seems like a nice guy and he didn't handle the end well. He was even kind of attacking some vocal haters of season 8, but he didn't quite understand that nobody has problems with the acting but just the laziness of the writers. I hope he gets over it.Sad news: https://pagesix.com/2019/05/28/kit-harington-checked-into-luxury-rehab-for-stress-and-alcohol/
Can totaly see it happening, after playing a role for 9 years, so much stress must have build up. Reminds me of Matthew Perry from Friends.
But Omg his spause is Ygrtite from Game of Thrones? Talking about true love
And yes, he and "Ygritte" are together since they met on the set.
i actually had a lot of fun with the finale. a bit startled with s08e02 already dispatching the worst menace imaginable with a simple stunt. wut? the last episode i couldn't stop laughing, i really liked it. yes, it's a bit of rushed together but i loved that they risked something different and refreshing for a change. a good and original ending for a story that started very well but went down the usual downward spiral as it was being overexploited.
there's just one thing that was left dangling for me: wasn't winter supposed to be coming? i mean, a really-really-really nasty winter where you need to practically hibernate deep in your keep, lasting for decades? talk about global warming, damn dragons ...
there's just one thing that was left dangling for me: wasn't winter supposed to be coming? i mean, a really-really-really nasty winter where you need to practically hibernate deep in your keep, lasting for decades? talk about global warming, damn dragons ...
you mean you guys actually paid for this?
well, now i can understand some of all this disappointment and social debacle!!
Good enough I suppose. But I really hope that book will have some other plot
Assuming RRM ever bothers to get off his complacent rear end. And return from writer's block limbo where he's been vacationing for the entire GoT TV series that is...
His ongoing AWOL status gives me increasing concern. It leads me to compare him to likes of Jean Auel, the author of the groundbreaking Clan of the Cave Bear series. She had a habit to go on long MIA stretches from the literary scene. The combined time gaps between her last 2 books, literally equaled the time it took for a kid starting school in Pre-K to graduate from college.
I suspect the TV series would've turned out better had RRM completed at least one more book in his saga. Regardless, I also suspect true writing talent would still continue being a non-existent intellectual resource where D&D are concerned. In order to have saved GoT, Twiddle Dum and Twiddle Dee would've needed RRM to provide them with a road map. One that literally pointed out which GoT milestones they needed to create each episode around.
But the TV series is good and done. So any 20/20 hindsight is completely useless at this point.
It's actually not a bad thing. After a great show ends I'm usually left feeling a bit empty. This time I was happy to see it go.
Well said.......
.... yes I agree. By the end of season 7 I was thinking that the story really needed to end.
It's done now and I'm glad.
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Things I didn't like:
- Did I miss any explanation whatsoever about the whole night king thing? I can be a bit dozy but that was a massive plot arc that just ended and ne'er another thing said.
- Cersei was very underused the whole season. Considering she was such a huge character throughout the show, this last season did the character no justice. Yeah she had ordered Mountain to cut off useless missandeis head and grey worm went stupid bonkers. But that was really about it. She basically rolled over and died without any of the panache of the last series where she killed basically EVERYONE in one go.
- Dany going mental. That was just lame, they needed an excuse to turn her into someone to hate and that whole lunacy was it. Made no sense.
- Broken Bran. Need I say anymore about his whole arc? The viewer is just expected to accept all of that without any exposition at all. Why did the night king need him anyway? Did I miss an episode where that was explained?
- Lots of other stuff. Varys changing his mind about Dany so quickly. Jaime and Brianna...urghh. This series felt like it was a guest that had overstayed the welcome. In fairness it wasn't bad and it wrapped up as best as it could, but nonetheless it was rushed and swept away as ruthlessly as possible.
I loved:
- Did I miss any explanation whatsoever about the whole night king thing? I can be a bit dozy but that was a massive plot arc that just ended and ne'er another thing said.
- Cersei was very underused the whole season. Considering she was such a huge character throughout the show, this last season did the character no justice. Yeah she had ordered Mountain to cut off useless missandeis head and grey worm went stupid bonkers. But that was really about it. She basically rolled over and died without any of the panache of the last series where she killed basically EVERYONE in one go.
- Dany going mental. That was just lame, they needed an excuse to turn her into someone to hate and that whole lunacy was it. Made no sense.
- Broken Bran. Need I say anymore about his whole arc? The viewer is just expected to accept all of that without any exposition at all. Why did the night king need him anyway? Did I miss an episode where that was explained?
- Lots of other stuff. Varys changing his mind about Dany so quickly. Jaime and Brianna...urghh. This series felt like it was a guest that had overstayed the welcome. In fairness it wasn't bad and it wrapped up as best as it could, but nonetheless it was rushed and swept away as ruthlessly as possible.
I loved:
- the hound ending.
- the amazing Cello musical overture during the night king scene with bran and leapy Arya. Listened to that several times and ignored the watching.
- Tyrion surviving, Davos surviving, The rest could as far as I was concerned burn really.
The Night King wanted to destroy the world and since the 3 eyed Raven is the memory of the world he had to start with him...or something.