Gankers vs ATR?

I've been playing ED for over 2 years now and I've only just learned about something I didn't know: The existence of the Advanced Tactical Response (ATR) unit.

Probably because I'm a model citizen, I'm much more likely to get authority protection than authority attention.

Gets me thinking though, with the ATR out there - which all evidence would suggest are pretty damn bad ass - do they go after gankers? And if so, how do gankers deal with it?

Also gets me thinking about the ganking activity in general. I like the idea that there'd be proportional in-game crime and punishment for mass murder.

Thinking maybe going hand in hand with ATR intervention should be the rebuy factor being a sliding scale; say 5% only for non-crime related claims right up to 100% (ship confiscation) for notoriety 10.

Imagine the ganker losing his billion cr Cutter and all its engineered bits n bobs for taking out one too many harmless Cmdrs for the lols.

Ya reckon?
 
ATR is quite ineffective because they aren't proactive. If you plan to spend hours in a RES murdering innocent NPCs they are probably going to bother you. If you just jump into a system and kill a few ships you are probably gone before they arrive.
 
We have system cops and ATR. I don't think I've ever seen ATR. When my crimes flag is "on" the system cops show up after X minutes when an outlaw pulls me. Some of them really hate the system cops and make a point to inform me of their displeasure. When the fight is between 2 shield tanks, the system cops are like my own personal SLF fleet. I have a video of that around here somewhere.
 
ATR is not intended for gankers, nor would it really deter them.

ATR is essentially an 'incentive' to stop murdering NPCs with the BGS. A ganker can hose an unwary pilot faster than any security can be alerted and arrive.

Unfortunately very much this. Especially as (at least according to the limited testing I did) the timer resets when you leave the system. According to my experience, it was something like this:
  • Kill one ship. ATR is "on the way", and they really hurry after stopping at a diner for breakfast and a second cup of coffee.
  • Low wake after the kill, continue killing. ATR will react much quicker, the more kills you racked up. After five or six kills, they are there almost instantly.
  • High wake to another system, jump back to where you did the killing: ATR went for their well deserved coffee break again.

Mind you, that's how I remember it from quickly testing it ages ago. My testing was not very thorough, my old memory may also be wrong, but this is the impression I still have from ATR. And up to now nobody gave me reason to believe that this is wrong.
 
ATR is not intended for gankers, nor would it really deter them.

ATR is essentially an 'incentive' to stop murdering NPCs with the BGS. A ganker can hose an unwary pilot faster than any security can be alerted and arrive.

Yep ATR is useless against engineered gankers. Security rating means nothing in terms of PvP its more of PvE/BGS thing.
 
Unfortunately very much this. Especially as (at least according to the limited testing I did) the timer resets when you leave the system. According to my experience, it was something like this:
  • Kill one ship. ATR is "on the way", and they really hurry after stopping at a diner for breakfast and a second cup of coffee.
  • Low wake after the kill, continue killing. ATR will react much quicker, the more kills you racked up. After five or six kills, they are there almost instantly.
  • High wake to another system, jump back to where you did the killing: ATR went for their well deserved coffee break again.

Mind you, that's how I remember it from quickly testing it ages ago. My testing was not very thorough, my old memory may also be wrong, but this is the impression I still have from ATR. And up to now nobody gave me reason to believe that this is wrong.

Thats pretty much it. ATR warning after 8 or so straight kills is 1:30. If you kill again in that instance they pop up instantly from then on until you jump out.

I've had lots of ideas about ATR and security in general here, but in the end you have to build a ship to withstand about two minutes of attack to give you time to HW and know what to do (i.e. not panic).

 
Thinking maybe going hand in hand with ATR intervention should be the rebuy factor being a sliding scale; say 5% only for non-crime related claims right up to 100% (ship confiscation) for notoriety 10.
This is mostly there already, though not in quite the same way.

You gain much higher murder bounties if you kill with high notoriety, and especially if you kill a weaker (less expensive) player ship. The rebuy cost for the targets of high notoriety players is also significantly reduced. It's quite possible to pile up bounties more than your ship is actually worth - the local bounty report here has someone with over 750 million in bounty.

It doesn't make a lot of difference in practice, because rebuy (and bounty) is only important if you actually get killed, and if it was made so difficult to run away that hostile players generally couldn't ... their targets would have no chance.
 
I think noone needs additional red tape on their game play as it is. All OP NPC do is frustrate average players while doing little against juiced up player metaships. It's a race where FD will always will be second.
 
If we wanted to follow the "town guard" model closely, ATRs would instantly appear when one player attacked another in high security systems, and the assailant would be locked out of all local docks. Lockouts without ATR autoresponse would occur in lower security systems, and there would be no response or lockouts in anarchy systems.
 
This is mostly there already, though not in quite the same way.

You gain much higher murder bounties if you kill with high notoriety, and especially if you kill a weaker (less expensive) player ship. The rebuy cost for the targets of high notoriety players is also significantly reduced. It's quite possible to pile up bounties more than your ship is actually worth - the local bounty report here has someone with over 750 million in bounty.

It doesn't make a lot of difference in practice, because rebuy (and bounty) is only important if you actually get killed, and if it was made so difficult to run away that hostile players generally couldn't ... their targets would have no chance.

When BGS murdering you generally have disposable ships. I currently have two Clippers with a billion bounty on each that need disposal.
 
Shame ATR doesn't have anti-FSD devices that stop you waking and are all flying souped up Viper Mk3s (like they should be) so they can keep up with anyone trying to run.

Then they would be a deterrent.
 
Shame ATR doesn't have anti-FSD devices that stop you waking and are all flying souped up Viper Mk3s (like they should be) so they can keep up with anyone trying to run.

Then they would be a deterrent.


Some do if I recall.

Speed is not a problem because ATR spawn in a cordon shape (so if you run you always have a closing net) and have G5 LR burst lasers that hurt even at extreme ranges.
 
Shame ATR doesn't have anti-FSD devices that stop you waking and are all flying souped up Viper Mk3s (like they should be) so they can keep up with anyone trying to run.

Then they would be a deterrent.

Saw a Youtube vid of just that. Someone in their Vette being hounded by ATR with his FSD getting reset. He didn't make it. ⚰
 
This is not a new suggestion, and as Rubbernuke already said, ATR was not introduced to deter ganks and similar gameplay....

And there is no easy fix to take the existing ATR to fix this as many times the actually ganker can kill the target before security ships arrives, so in most cases the deed would be done before the ATR would arrive, and if we would allow ATR to arrive much faster, then this would affect all all sorts of PvP activities in a mostly negative way. And ATR (or authority ships) is not persistent so once you leave the instance, they ATR/Authority ships forgot about you, and things like notoriety does not seems to affect what authority does when they see a wanted CMDR. etc, etc, I can go on how the current system is lacking in functionality and operation to be a effective deterrent, and we need to be cautious so that we do break other stuff related to PvP. An often brought up topic together with this is to have a working deterrent based on a systems security level, basically, it would be much more dangerous to do this in high security system, but in low security it would be fairly safe todo this, when it comes to authority response, this is from the "ganker" view, so for the regular player, it means that it should be fairly safe in high security and then the risk goes up as you go to lower security levels and then of course Anarchy systems is the most dangerous places to be, especially in a weak ship... so properly implemented this could give us a much better risk/reward into the game, regardless of what you do in the game, and as a bonus, this system would then work as a deterrent for gankers... without specifically target them...


Sadly today, ganking is a low risk, high reward activity for the ganker, and the biggest risk they face are other players out to get them.... as the authority is to slow/weak to pose any real threat, and the ganker only need to leave the instance (high/low wake) and then security give up chasing them...no hot pursuits here!



FDev did propose another mechanic that could be used for this kind of deterrent, and that was the Karma system, it would not work to stop you from doing this, but based on your past actions, you would get a hidden score for certain unwanted activities in certain areas, this could then be used by the game to tailor how the game response based on your behaviour....and now stuff like ATR could "follow" a CMDR once in a certain system for example... or as the ganker would call it, the ATR's do keep ganking him all the dang time, forcing the ganker to either suck it up and endure it (very unlikely, they would be crying out an entire planet of salt in the forums) or they have to move away and hunt players in other locations... it would be a much more tailored response to repeated unwanted behaviour in certain location without actually blocking it. So this would not be the blunt blind response that the updated C&P gave us... where a minor infraction get you sent to a detention center...We are still waiting for this Karma system. I can go on how cool such a Karma system could be.
 
Why not have the ATR immediately show up after a gank and one-shot kill the offender before they can wake out? Seems simple enough at first glance.
 

Deleted member 38366

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The idea of ATR is nice - but they'd need to be active in SuperCruise already in order to Deny/Disrupt/Destroy Gankers before they even have a realistic chance to interdict legal Traffic.

In times of Engineered insta-gib Weapons, ATR isn't very useful due to the time factor alone.
 
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