Modes Get off Solo/Private groups and onto Open play!

[Sylveria]

What I don't understand is why most of the ideas being put forth by PvP-centrics almost always have something to do with restricting or hindering other players who don't share the same perceptions.

Why does it always come down to "In order to give to some, you must take from others"? Why can't it be about giving to all instead of just some?

It's been demonstrated time and time again not everyone holds the same beliefs or perceptions regarding game activities- yet it always seems to boil down to in order to provide "incentive" we have to treat the entire player base like children. "Oh, let's take their toys away or restrict their activities so we can "motivate" or provide "incentive" so they'll do what we want them to do!"

This game isn't about "child rearing" and players shouldn't be treated as such- it's (mostly) grown adults that have paid for a product for their own entertainment.

 

[wrmiller]

What I don't understand is why most of the ideas being put forth by PvP-centrics almost always have something to do with restricting or hindering other players who don't share the same perceptions.

Why does it always come down to "In order to give to some, you must take from others"? Why can't it be about giving to all instead of just some?

It's been demonstrated time and time again not everyone holds the same beliefs or perceptions regarding game activities- yet it always seems to boil down to in order to provide "incentive" we have to treat the entire player base like children. "Oh, let's take their toys away or restrict their activities so we can "motivate" or provide "incentive" so they'll do what we want them to do!"

This game isn't about "child rearing" and players shouldn't be treated as such- it's (mostly) grown adults that have paid for a product for their own entertainment.

Watching/reading the activity in this sub-forum, I would respectfully disagree with the "mostly" part...

 

[Sylveria]

Watching/reading the activity in this sub-forum, I would respectfully disagree with the "mostly" part...

Well, I am trying to be fair, at least! LOL

 

[UmbraRex]

It would offer those who positively absolutely must have the opportunity to shoot any opposition in the face (matchmaking permitting) a region of the galaxy to contest. The galaxy is big enough, in my opinion, to accommodate a designated region, per platform, for that.

It would avoid any need to fiddle with reward for / effect of player actions in each mode - as the region could only be affected in Open by players who have sourced stuff inside the region.

It would offer PowerPlay, Factions, CGs, etc. too.

What's not to like?

I have one issue with your idea.

While it will give those wishing for legitimate PvP a place to go, GSPies will have no incentive to move and will stay around clubbing seals.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I have one issue with your idea.

While it will give those wishing for legitimate PvP a place to go, GSPies will have no incentive to move and will stay around clubbing seals.

That is a distinct possibility - however it may be that they will identify themselves even more clearly (when outside The New Bubble) and their complaints regarding lack of meaningful PvP will be less convincing.

The idea of The New Bubble is to offer exactly the same game content inside as outside with the single limitation of Open only participation (through the use of the region permit).

 

[Mouse]

That is a distinct possibility - however it may be that they will identify themselves even more clearly (when outside The New Bubble) and their complaints regarding lack of meaningful PvP will be less convincing.

The idea of The New Bubble is to offer exactly the same game content inside as outside with the single limitation of Open only participation (through the use of the region permit).

your idea sounds kind of like the ironman mode that some have asked for and I think would be a great idea.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's not inconsistent (in my head, anyway) as it makes use of the Permit system to lock access to players in Open only.

Play in Open and one can freely enter and leave (subject to border controls purging ship of all contents / data / etc.); play in another mode and one cannot enter as it's permit locked.

Yes, when viewed from the outside it's 4th wall breaking - however so is the choice of modes in the first place when one launches the game, in my opinion.

You contradicted yourself there. It's not inconsistent ... in Open only. So, it's inconsistent depending upon the mode.

The choice of modes at the moment don't impact continuity. If you consider the Elite Universe. What difference does it make to it how you log in? Keep in mind, in the Elite Universe there's no difference between Player or NPC.

With the new Bubble, in one instance of the Elite Universe I can travel freely through that bubble, switch modes and I can't. The Elite Reality has changed depending on the mode you log into.

 

[Robert Maynard]

You contradicted yourself there. It's not inconsistent ... in Open only. So, it's inconsistent depending upon the mode.

The choice of modes at the moment don't impact continuity. If you consider the Elite Universe. What difference does it make to it how you log in? Keep in mind, in the Elite Universe there's no difference between Player or NPC.

With the new Bubble, in one instance of the Elite Universe I can travel freely through that bubble, switch modes and I can't. The Elite Reality has changed depending on the mode you log into.

I know - however the permit system seems, to me at least, to be an enabler in providing the possibility for satisfying some players, who want content for all players to be limited to Open only, by providing a region of the galaxy where Factions, PowerPlay, CGs, etc. *can* only be affected in Open only.

It's a compromise.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I know - however the permit system seems, to me at least, to be an enabler in providing the possibility for satisfying some players, who want content for all players to be limited to Open only, by providing a region of the galaxy where Factions, PowerPlay, CGs, etc. *can* only be affected in Open only.

It's a compromise.

This would be my new home. I have no interest in killing new players as they wont learn anything from it. And neither will I.

This would be a place made for healthy competition, where everyone has the understanding that they have the chance they will die for no reason. This would be a place where people that know and understand the game after their 1000 hours. To put their knowledge of the BGS and Combat against others to use.

"The new bubble" Wouldnt be for new players or even have the chance to effect them.

gotta fix combat logging, and blocking still though

Awesome ideas Robert.

 

[ZeroAi]

This thread is still going?

Just FYI - I'm staying in PG and Solo - no time for griefers...

Flying Safe o7

 

[Krovennan]

Gimme back the 6 million I lost in rebuys because two separate wastes of skin couldn't take the hint that I don't want to be involved in their bounty-measuring contest and I might do more in CGs. Otherwise, you be quiet.

If there was a system where I didn't have to spend a quarter of my entire balance to rebuy after some hyper-engineered murderhobo decides he wants to go out seal-clubbing was in place, I might not worry, but the state of griefing in the game (and no, it's not PvP, PvP implies that both participants have a chance of winning and actually want to fight, you're a griefer, no matter what you use to justify it to yourself) is so obscene, especially in the CGs, that theres no reason to play them in Open. Private groups lets you co-op with friends without losing everything so if you have a group to fly with, why would you ever play in Open? Theres zero benefit to it.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Gimme back the 6 million I lost in rebuys because two separate wastes of skin couldn't take the hint that I don't want to be involved in their bounty-measuring contest and I might do more in CGs. Otherwise, you be quiet.

If there was a system where I didn't have to spend a quarter of my entire balance to rebuy after some hyper-engineered murderhobo decides he wants to go out seal-clubbing was in place, I might not worry, but the state of griefing in the game (and no, it's not PvP, PvP implies that both participants have a chance of winning and actually want to fight, you're a griefer, no matter what you use to justify it to yourself) is so obscene, especially in the CGs, that theres no reason to play them in Open. Private groups lets you co-op with friends without losing everything so if you have a group to fly with, why would you ever play in Open? Theres zero benefit to it.

You hit the nail on the head. There's no reason to go into Open. It is how the game was designed, from the beginning.

The people who demand silly things like "Open only now!!!!"... They purchased the same game as us. One where the individual does not, in fact, have to play with others provided they choose the appropriate game mode.

Of course, a small portion of community have decided the modes are "wrong", which is amusing to hear and see, as the only people who can act as arbiter over what is right and wrong for the game, is FD. And oh look... They gave us Solo & PG.

That was not an accident.

 

[Faded Glory]

This would be a place made for healthy competition, where everyone has the understanding that they have the chance they will die for no reason.

Bit of a disconnect IMHO... Why should players 'die for no reason'? That is presumably one reason that some players choose not to play with you in open.

I'm fully aware it's not against the rules, but while there are players who think it's fun to blow up other players for no reason other than they can, well I'm going to guess that they'll forever be a bit lonely in the game.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Bit of a disconnect IMHO... Why should players 'die for no reason'? That is presumably one reason that some players choose not to play with you in open.

I'm fully aware it's not against the rules, but while there are players who think it's fun to blow up other players for no reason other than they can, well I'm going to guess that they'll forever be a bit lonely in the game.

They could be in the wrong territory. Get shot at passing through a warzone. Two factions going at it. One side doesnt know every name they are fighting. All that good stuff.

Hope they change that with the squadrons that are coming. And we can link some abbreviations to our ships. Instead of using the name thingy for our ships. Anyone could label their ship SDC or whatever you know?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

You're confusing derping around with working the BGS. Derping around doesn't mean working the BGS. I was in open for several hours the other night working the BGS and didn't see another person. But i was in a combat ship. Makes sense in open to fly something combat capable.... or fast.

I went doing some PvE piracy later in Open. Saw one other guy who didn't send me any comms or even try to interdict me. I switched to solo later for the same experience.

No, Ive been specifically stating this whole time. Player Factions vs Player Factions and Powerplay.

This is the only thing I am relating this to since the beginning.

 

[Faded Glory]

They could be in the wrong territory. Get shot at passing through a warzone. Two factions going at it. One side doesnt know every name they are fighting. All that good stuff.

Hope they change that with the squadrons that are coming. And we can link some abbreviations to our ships. Instead of using the name thingy for our ships. Anyone could label their ship SDC or whatever you know?

Well, that's not for no reason, so I think what you are saying is that you can be destroyed at any time if you are not paying attention, and that is fine as presumably people going into that environment wouldn't stumble in blind.

Consensual PvP. What an idea...

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Well, that's not for no reason, so I think what you are saying is that you can be destroyed at any time if you are not paying attention, and that is fine as presumably people going into that environment wouldn't stumble in blind.

Consensual PvP. What an idea...

Its all ive ever done is consensual PVP. Well, except that one time I killed DJtruthsayer. Was all in fun, and we're cool. That would be the only "grief" I have ever done. Besides that, all my fights were through other members of the PVP community. Or known bad guys like Zarek Null.

PVP is a lot of fun, shame its only limited to good guys and bad guys. I like Roberts idea of Permit locked open systems. Cause right now whats killed "direct pvp" in the way of BGS faction wars and powerplay. Is objectives can be taken in any mode. So with that option, you are working against yourself playing in open. You dont need defenses, you dont have to worry about another engineered commander with premium ammo even though you are against them.

The best way to do it is go into solo and private. Min /max for hauling. Pick up +++ missions. Or go to a haz rez and murder everything but the faction you want to increase.

Literally no way to be stopped "directly". All these wars are being fought in private and solo because its beneficial to be there. Its created a META.

Does you no good to engage in direct pvp, or outfit your ship for defenses, as you are losing jump range, and cargo capacity.

We had a consensual PVP program with powerplay. Frontier even went through the tasks of removing cops so they wouldn't interfere. But because of the modes. All their efforts are for naught.

Really cool design though. Just like the BGS. I like both the powerplay and the BGS design. What I dont like is solo and private modes, where you remove yourself from everyone else. To take those objectives. Its killed the outlets for consensual direct pvp.

Consensual PVP. What an idea...

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
Really cool design though. Just like the BGS. I like both the powerplay and the BGS design. What I dont like is solo and private modes, where you remove yourself from everyone else. To take those objectives. Its killed the outlets for consensual direct pvp.

Consensual PVP. What an idea...

Yes, the permit locked open only systems is (IMO) an interesting idea. Of course, if no-one turns up...

But your blaming the modes is nonsense. The modes allow all players to play the game how they want. With you, or not with you, and that doesn't impact consensual PvP at all. Players choosing a mode other than open are simply not consenting to playing (PvP) with you (or anybody else, it's not personal), and nothing about Robert's suggestion will change that.

Except of course, you may have system that you can claim is all your own...

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Yes, the permit locked open only systems is (IMO) an interesting idea. Of course, if no-one turns up...

But your blaming the modes is nonsense. The modes allow all players to play the game how they want. With you, or not with you, and that doesn't impact consensual PvP at all. Players choosing a mode other than open are simply not consenting to playing (PvP) with you (or anybody else, it's not personal), and nothing about Robert's suggestion will change that.

Except of course, you may have system that you can claim is all your own...

It is the modes, again you can go into solo and private. Outfit your ship against NPC's. That do nothing. And you dont have to fight your opponents.

You get extra benefits for choosing solo and private because you dont need any defenses. And players are stronger and smarter than NPC's. Remove the people you are fighting against from the scenario all together.

So everyone uses solo and private. Even PVPers. Because thats where you get most out of your time.

And yes, I belong to a player faction. A pretty large one. And we are involved in this stuff ALL THE TIME.

Again, the modes allow objectives to be taken safely.

Think what you want about how its nonsense. Every bit of this is true.

This is not about new players. Or griefing. Or maybe i just dont want to be shot at today and I want to relax and play.

This is about people that know the game, capable of PVPing. But dont because its not beneficial to be there. Just like PVPers min max their builds? And have specific weapon setups for ships? Same thing in solo and private and moving cargo for +++ missions against your opponents. Nothing different in that regard. Thats the best place for your time and effort. And if you do get pulled by a NPC and are about to die.

All you have to is pull th...

 

[Lateralus]

Yes, the permit locked open only systems is (IMO) an interesting idea. Of course, if no-one turns up...

But your blaming the modes is nonsense. The modes allow all players to play the game how they want. With you, or not with you, and that doesn't impact consensual PvP at all. Players choosing a mode other than open are simply not consenting to playing (PvP) with you (or anybody else, it's not personal), and nothing about Robert's suggestion will change that.

Except of course, you may have system that you can claim is all your own...

Modes make Powerplay almost redundant, and reduce it to BGS v2. It's amazing people still deny this is a factor.

Imagine if you could only take part in PP in open.. It would change the whole nature of PP to be far more tactical, more risky and more rewarding (i.e more fun). It's already a voluntary system, so it wouldn't force anyone to PvP. Players would actually bother defending their home turf (because if wouldn't be futile trying), so those wishing to undermine would face resistance, probably wherever they go.

Choosing to make PP the same across all modes was a huge blunder from FDev - it turned it into a module shopping system with very little emergent game play value.