Modes Get off Solo/Private groups and onto Open play!

[Robert Maynard]

Modes make Powerplay almost redundant, and reduce it to BGS v2. It's amazing people still deny this is a factor.

Imagine if you could only take part in PP in open.. It would change the whole nature of PP to be far more tactical, more risky and more rewarding (i.e more fun). It's already a voluntary system, so it wouldn't force anyone to PvP. Players would actually bother defending their home turf (because if wouldn't be futile trying), so those wishing to undermine would face resistance, probably wherever they go.

Choosing to make PP the same across all modes was a huge blunder from FDev - it turned it into a module shopping system with very little emergent game play value.

.... or maybe Frontier wanted it to be an option for those that don't engage in PvP (who, from what one Dev has indicated form the majority of the player-base).

Rather than try to remove existing content from players, why not consider supporting the proposal for The New Bubble as a way forward that could offer an Open only region of the galaxy - in all respects - for players that want to play in it?

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

How about people wanting to pp in open do so and try to convince other pvp to only use open too. Surely both groups want pvp encounters so should be easy to get a honour system going between the pvp groups to only work pp/bgs in open; simple.

If the problem is pvp groups not willing to honour such a deal, then surely that's a problem for the pvp groups involved, no need to get angry or take features away from others.

 

[deathcow]

I think the problem with open pvp players is that they don't realise that they have already driven those players they wish to play in open into solo. I have lost a couple of ships to being attacked by them or multicrew players attacking allot of npcs and in the process my ship is destroyed. If rebuys wasn't a thing to worry about then I would play open all day, but i don't wish to grind all day for a couple of rebuys. Some of the grinding i don't mind like passenger missions and i am not that much interested in pvp more co op.

You should be asking people want is it that they wish to play and work out who plays want. Also this combat logging that pvp players complain about and i wonder how many of those that disconnect are interested in playing pvp or play pve. I would imagine it maybe pve players tired of being attacked so just logout to avoid the rebuy or the pain of having to fight better equipped players. It is always the strong attacking the weak which is not fair also there is no justice for those attacked. If this was real life we would demanding the powers that be do something about these murders of players?

At this point i have really no desire to play open anymore and play private or solo. If you ban these modes i think i would do something else with my time to be honest. I think frontier are aware of this. I bought the game like everyone else and spent money in the shop for skins and want not, this is just a game i play to waste time and have fun that i like. If you wish people to play open then you have to change not me. I am not trying to attack open players and i did enjoy it once, but not so much now.

If i could set an in game bounty for a player that killed me in game then i would imagine things would change pretty quickly and maybe more players would go back to open, but at this moment open players that like pvp have burnt their bridges a long time ago.

DC out

 

[Lateralus]

.... or maybe Frontier wanted it to be an option for those that don't engage in PvP (who, from what one Dev has indicated form the majority of the player-base).

Yeah, and that was a mistake. By making it the same as the rest of the game in terms of modes they ruined the PvP part (which is supposedly one of the main points of it).

To get the best out of any competitive open world/territory game, it cannot have paths of least resistance.. because it kills all the best parts of it.

Rather than try to remove existing content from players, why not consider supporting the proposal for The New Bubble as a way forward that could offer an Open only region of the galaxy - in all respects - for players that want to play in it?

If they locked a region of the bubble to open and made the rewards higher than the rest of the bubble (due to danger), that may work. Without the extra rewards though it wouldn't work.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

The only arguments I see here really are from people who wanna shoot other players and people who don't wanna get shot by other 'usually better equiprd and better at shooting' players, and restricting a part of the galaxy to Open... therefore PvP is not the answer, if most players are in solo or PG (as alluded to by Roberts post above) then they obviously do not want to participate in PvP so in reality 'Open' is not working... who trades in open? not as many as don't I'm sure, but I don't have the figures FD might.
so perhaps then it's the minority that has it wrong, and to continue to pander to the minority at the expense of the majority is a waste of resources and time,

If there were a way to avoid combat with far superior combatants in open then maybe the mode would refill, like if the victim is unarmed and boosts away,(and has no Bounty) then they usually do not wish to engage in hostilities... if, in those circumstances a 'log' could be run from the time of the interdiction (maybe a logger module could fit into an empty gunport and run automatically when hit with a player interdiction, and only fits unarmed vessels) then the offender could be identified and be banned from open for a time period... (a week, a month... whatever) this might... might persuade Solo/PG players that FD are looking out for them and return or try Open Play.

But as set out at the beginning there are 3 modes... choose your own route!

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Yeah, and that was a mistake. By making it the same as the rest of the game in terms of modes they ruined the PvP part (which is supposedly one of the main points of it).

To get the best out of any competitive open world/territory game, it cannot have paths of least resistance.. because it kills all the best parts of it.



If they locked a region of the bubble to open and made the rewards higher than the rest of the bubble (due to danger), that may work. Without the extra rewards though it wouldn't work.

There you go again... you want EXTRA, you create a hostile environment and want a bonus for being there! amazing

 

[Lateralus]

How about people wanting to pp in open do so and try to convince other pvp to only use open too. Surely both groups want pvp encounters so should be easy to get a honour system going between the pvp groups to only work pp/bgs in open; simple.

If the problem is pvp groups not willing to honour such a deal, then surely that's a problem for the pvp groups involved, no need to get angry or take features away from others.

The weaker combat group will always duck into private modes when they are on the defensive, because they can.. It's not about individual fights or duels, it's about private modes undercutting the whole concept of territory control, reducing it to a waste of time that most won't bother doing.

Frontier know this, that's why Sandro mused about restricting certain Powerplay-related actions to open. As always they are scared to do it though because of the inevitable solo backlash.

 

[Lateralus]

There you go again... you want EXTRA, you create a hostile environment and want a bonus for being there! amazing

Because in game-design, increased difficulty requires increased rewards otherwise people don't bother. It's a simple concept.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yeah, and that was a mistake. By making it the same as the rest of the game in terms of modes they ruined the PvP part (which is supposedly one of the main points of it).

In the opinion of some, no doubt - however probably not in the opinion of the majority, in my opinion. What PowerPlay actually offers is opportunities for consensual PvP, i.e. if both parties want to engage in it, but no requirement to engage in PvP, i.e. in keeping with the design philosophy of the game.

To get the best out of any competitive open world/territory game, it cannot have paths of least resistance.. because it kills all the best parts of it.

If the game had been designed around PvP then it would only have Open. Frontier chose not to design the game around PvP though.

If they locked a region of the bubble to open and made the rewards higher than the rest of the bubble (due to danger), that may work. Without the extra rewards though it wouldn't work.

Why would there be any need for higher rewards?

The main complaint seems to be "players in Solo / Private Groups are affecting my game" - the locked region would stop players in modes other than Open affecting the game of those playing in the locked region.

If the complaint is simply "I fly in Open so I deserve more" then Frontier would not seem to be supportive of that stance (even taking into account Sandro's short-lived musings about an Open play bonus for PowerPlay - that he was at pains to make clear applied only to the Power and not to the individual).

 

[Theodrid]

Because in game-design, increased difficulty requires increased rewards otherwise people don't bother. It's a simple concept.

If said 'risk' was compulsory you'd have a point, as it is entirely optional and you have the same ability to avoid said risk as everyone else your 'simple concept' falls down. I don't expect to receive a gold star if I decide to do my fry up butt naked, I expect to get a little burnt.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Because in game-design, increased difficulty requires increased rewards otherwise people don't bother. It's a simple concept.

So why am I trying to beat Civilisation VI on deity?

 

[Lateralus]

Why would there be any need for higher rewards?

The main complaint seems to be "players in Solo / Private Groups are affecting my game" - the locked region would stop players in modes other than Open affecting the game of those playing in the locked region.

If the complaint is simply "I fly in Open so I deserve more" then Frontier would not seem to be supportive of that stance (even taking into account Sandro's short-lived musings about an Open play bonus for PowerPlay - that he was at pains to make clear applied only to the Power and not to the individual).

If said 'risk' was compulsory you'd have a point, as it is entirely optional and you have the same ability to avoid said risk as everyone else your 'simple concept' falls down. I don't expect to receive a gold star if I decide to do my fry up butt naked, I expect to get a little burnt.

We're talking about a 'Dark-Zone' style area like in The Division right? You get better loot there because it's the PvP zone (and therefore more risky). I'm not sure why everyone gets so outraged at this concept, it's a fairly standard one.

 

[Lateralus]

So why am I trying to beat Civilisation VI on deity?

Because if its anything like Civ V, lower level AI is not good enough to be fun? I hope the AI is better in VI (not played it yet).

 

[Kinky Jalepeno]

TO ALL YOU PEOPLE IN SOLO AND PGs - COME OUT OF YOUR SHELLS AND INTO THE INVITING WATERS OF OPEN! DON'T LIVE IN FEAR AND PARANOIA, HELP TO BETTER YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE AND OTHERS BY CREATING A LIVING BREATHING COMMUNITY!

I hate PvP and the chance of it, it's not about being scared or full of paranoia, I just don't want the chance of being pestered by an -hole.
PvP ruins every game it touches IMO.

I play in the huge private group Mobius which bans PvP, seems to be a decent amount of other players around and no -holes.
I'll stay put thanks.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Because if its anything like Civ V, lower level AI is not good enough to be fun? I hope the AI is better in VI (not played it yet).

AI is improved, but still has a lot to be desired for. Which is understandable in the complexity.

Indeed, my reward is the challenge and the resulting fun. Which means this is also an existing concept in game design. Although deity is more of a wall which I'm trying to break by lowering my head and repeatedly run into it, they do tend to be quite short and are more of a case: how long can I gold out. Depending on the leader, an Immortal or Emperor level game can be more fun when I am looking for a longer game.

The same principle can be applied to Elite. You go into Open because you feel it's more fun than the other modes for whatever reason.
My reward for playing in the Fleetcomm private group is seeing where the other explorers are hanging out. My reward for going into Open are chance meetings. Not of the hostile kind, but of the friendly kind. I endure the hostile kind.

 

[Robert Maynard]

We're talking about a 'Dark-Zone' style area like in The Division right? You get better loot there because it's the PvP zone (and therefore more risky). I'm not sure why everyone gets so outraged at this concept, it's a fairly standard one.

It would be no different, in respect of PvP, than the rest of Open - just that those affecting the BGS, Factions, PowerPlay, CGs, etc. would only be able to do so in Open (rather than any of the three modes).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It would be no different, in respect of PvP, than the rest of Open - just that those affecting the BGS, Factions, PowerPlay, CGs, etc. would only be able to do so in Open (rather than any of the three modes).

Which makes the bonus factor infinite

 

[Jockey79]

Because in game-design, increased difficulty requires increased rewards otherwise people don't bother. It's a simple concept.

Here we go again with "more risk"

What risk, I can block anyone who shoots at me - either with the in game block or my firewall.
In less that 24 hours, there is as much risk in Open as there is in Solo mode.

The problem with Power Play is no one ever takes it seriously because of people who jump factions every 4 weeks looking for modules.
Why bother working your backside off for a faction when in a few weeks, everyone changes sides.

Module Tourism makes PP a joke.

It also explains a lot of the stupidity you see, like planets over reinforced and other further out ones with nothing.
The tourists only go to the closest stops to earn their merits and don't care about expanding / defending.
You want a decent Power Play, kill of tourism and take out the modules - then those who will play it properly can play it and actually do it right, without randoms constantly messing it up.

 

[Mouse]

If they locked a region of the bubble to open and made the rewards higher than the rest of the bubble (due to danger), that may work. Without the extra rewards though it wouldn't work.

Ding ding ding here we go again... "My playstyle is better than everyone else's and I deserve more rewards for the way I play vs everyone else.




oh and by the way.. the modes are not the issue with PP... the Module shopping is... restrict module ownership and use to their powers and blamo... no module shopping anymore.

 

[Han Zulu]

oh and by the way.. the modes are not the issue with PP... the Module shopping is... restrict mode ownership and use to their powers and blamo... no module shopping anymore.

And large game o f RNGrindineering that takes up 90% of the time.