Modes Get off Solo/Private groups and onto Open play!

[relayer]

So why am I trying to beat Civilisation VI on deity?

Yeah! And why did I hone my light-to-medium mech skills over several years in order to win the Battlenet Open Mech Championship twice in a row against 2-6x heavier armed mechs? FOR THE GLORY!

 

[Mouse]

Absolutely true. I'm married to an American, and I'm sure she doesn't understand a word I say...

Was having this same discussion earlier today with a friend and kept trying to stress the point to them mainly how the "C" word can be used positively in the UK, NZ, and Auzzie land aka "He's a cheek..., but NOT at all ever in the U.S.

Yeah! And why did I hone my light-to-medium mech skills over several years in order to win the Battlenet Open Mech Championship twice in a row against 2-6x heavier armed mechs? FOR THE GLORY!

Mech V Mech V Mech V

 

[relayer]

Mech V Mech V Mech V

Warm up your Dropship and meet me on Strana Mechty. I'll be the one in the flame-scarred Thor.

 

[Mouse]

Warm up your Dropship and meet me on Strana Mechty. I'll be the one in the flame-scarred Thor.

I'm the one in a pot marked Raven ^,^

 

[Captain Willard]

Yeah! And why did I hone my light-to-medium mech skills over several years in order to win the Battlenet Open Mech Championship twice in a row against 2-6x heavier armed mechs? FOR THE GLORY!

NOW we are really snoring.

 

[Dietger]

In the opinion of some, no doubt - however probably not in the opinion of the majority, in my opinion. What PowerPlay actually offers is opportunities for consensual PvP, i.e. if both parties want to engage in it, but no requirement to engage in PvP, i.e. in keeping with the design philosophy of the game.



If the game had been designed around PvP then it would only have Open. Frontier chose not to design the game around PvP though.



Why would there be any need for higher rewards?

The main complaint seems to be "players in Solo / Private Groups are affecting my game" - the locked region would stop players in modes other than Open affecting the game of those playing in the locked region.

If the complaint is simply "I fly in Open so I deserve more" then Frontier would not seem to be supportive of that stance (even taking into account Sandro's short-lived musings about an Open play bonus for PowerPlay - that he was at pains to make clear applied only to the Power and not to the individual).

If the game had been designed around PvP then it would only have Open.

Open is (been designed around PvP).

The game is about many things Robert.
First and foremost its about choices.
While there is liberty in Open, PvP in Open is a paramount dominating feature there, IN OPEN of outmost importance Robert. Since, its liberty granted, it may or may not be avoidable for its participants. All.


Good morning Robert Maynard




To quote a cowboy:

Powerplay is unique in that it explicitly *enforces* adversarial multiplayer by making Commanders choose sides. You are no longer fighting against the vagaries of the galaxy; you are competing directly with Commanders pledged to opposing powers.

In addition, Powerplay has rules to handle direct Commander-Commander confrontation. Indeed, this is the core conceit: the system encourages justifiable piracy and homicide for a higher purpose. It’s my belief that Powerplay will always be at its best when opposing Commanders interact directly, whether in an expansion conflict zone or through interdiction.

So it feels natural (to me) to look at ways to encourage Commanders to use Open Play. However, It’s also fairly clear that human opposition is potentially, and generally speaking, much more of a significant threat than NPCs.

Now we have to consider probabilities. Yes, it’s perfectly reasonable to say that you might never run into a human opponent in a control system, even playing in open. The fact remains however, that you *might* instead run into several. And this is on top of the standard NPC threat, which is identical in all play modes.

What’s more, the more pledged Commanders that play in Open, the greater the likelihood there is of human interaction and conflict.

There are thousands of Commanders that engage to some degree or another in Powerplay. Some play in Open, some don’t. If we are successful in getting more Commanders into Open, then the potential for them bumping into each other could increase rather significantly.

And there’s another point to make here, that’s quite simple but also fairly undeniable, is that playing in Open you don’t just meet other Commanders pledged to Powers. You meet *all* other Commanders. That includes all sorts of scum and villainy (character persona only, of course).



Considering this concept, plain, straight forward, Open play as as its advocates already pointed out, is the main road to PvP. Notjust tolerated, a mere side step but a thought out and deliberately encouraged central part of Open play. On top of all coop/contend. I mention it here, although absolute obviously: with everyone you may or may not encounter!

Don't delude yourself.

Conflict in Open is of paramount importance, thought after, looked for and deliberately thought out and encouraged.


So, Open is perfectly fine as is, no need for more instancing or confines for PvP. If you're not a fighting captain don't venture here

Choices, you choose Open you choose THE main PvP feature in Elite.
Reflecting (Open) I see Liberty as its main feature. For which I am grateful. You give your consent to conflict playing there. I would appreciate it, none fighting captains would, after so long a time, recognise the playground for what its is, lastly an arena.

Regards

 

[Mouse]

Open is (been designed around PvP).

The game is about many things Robert.
First and foremost its about choices.
While there is liberty in Open, PvP in Open is a paramount dominating feature there, IN OPEN of outmost importance Robert. Since, its liberty granted, it may or may not be avoidable for its participants. All.


Good morning Robert Maynard




To quote a cowboy:

Powerplay is unique in that it explicitly *enforces* adversarial multiplayer by making Commanders choose sides. You are no longer fighting against the vagaries of the galaxy; you are competing directly with Commanders pledged to opposing powers.

In addition, Powerplay has rules to handle direct Commander-Commander confrontation. Indeed, this is the core conceit: the system encourages justifiable piracy and homicide for a higher purpose. It’s my belief that Powerplay will always be at its best when opposing Commanders interact directly, whether in an expansion conflict zone or through interdiction.

So it feels natural (to me) to look at ways to encourage Commanders to use Open Play. However, It’s also fairly clear that human opposition is potentially, and generally speaking, much more of a significant threat than NPCs.

Now we have to consider probabilities. Yes, it’s perfectly reasonable to say that you might never run into a human opponent in a control system, even playing in open. The fact remains however, that you *might* instead run into several. And this is on top of the standard NPC threat, which is identical in all play modes.

What’s more, the more pledged Commanders that play in Open, the greater the likelihood there is of human interaction and conflict.

There are thousands of Commanders that engage to some degree or another in Powerplay. Some play in Open, some don’t. If we are successful in getting more Commanders into Open, then the potential for them bumping into each other could increase rather significantly.

And there’s another point to make here, that’s quite simple but also fairly undeniable, is that playing in Open you don’t just meet other Commanders pledged to Powers. You meet *all* other Commanders. That includes all sorts of scum and villainy (character persona only, of course).



Considering this concept, plain, straight forward, Open play as as its advocates already pointed out, is the main road to PvP. Notjust tolerated, a mere side step but a thought out and deliberately encouraged central part of Open play. On top of all coop/contend. I mention it here, although absolute obviously: with everyone you may or may not encounter!

Don't delude yourself.

Conflict in Open is of paramount importance, thought after, looked for and deliberately thought out and encouraged.


So, Open is perfectly fine as is, no need for more instancing or confines for PvP. If you're not a fighting captain don't venture here

Choices, you choose Open you choose THE main PvP feature in Elite.
Reflecting (Open) I see Liberty as its main feature. For which I am grateful. You give your consent to conflict playing there. I would appreciate it, none fighting captains would, after so long a time, recognise the playground for what its is, lastly an arena.

Regards

I'm sorry, but claiming Open has been designed around PVP is about the same as claiming that the Thargoids are only attacking us for our cheese dip. Yes the Thargoids are attacking us and yes there is PVP in Open but you ignore everything in the game and the basic fact that the Thargoids are doing a LOT more then merely stealing cheese dip and PVP is not the driving force in Elite Dangerous... There is also a large difference in PVP is in a mode and PVP is the REASON for the mode... because the only mode that PVP is the reason for it is CQC.

 

[Dietger]

I'm sorry, but claiming Open has been designed around PVP is about the same as claiming that the Thargoids are only attacking us for our cheese dip. Yes the Thargoids are attacking us and yes there is PVP in Open but you ignore everything in the game and the basic fact that the Thargoids are doing a LOT more then merely stealing cheese dip and PVP is not the driving force in Elite Dangerous... There is also a large difference in PVP is in a mode and PVP is the REASON for the mode... because the only mode that PVP is the reason for it is CQC.

Mouse, how do you avoid PvP in Open?

 

[Jockey79]

Open is (been designed around PvP).

How?

PvP is optional at all times, even in Open.
I can just jump to the number 2 menu and put you on block the moment you show up in my contacts list.
I can play Open all day and not see a soul.

So explain how Open is PvP mode.

To quote a cowboy:

Powerplay is unique in that it explicitly *enforces* adversarial multiplayer by making Commanders choose sides. You are no longer fighting against the vagaries of the galaxy; you are competing directly with Commanders pledged to opposing powers.

In addition, Powerplay has rules to handle direct Commander-Commander confrontation. Indeed, this is the core conceit: the system encourages justifiable piracy and homicide for a higher purpose. It’s my belief that Powerplay will always be at its best when opposing Commanders interact directly, whether in an expansion conflict zone or through interdiction.

So it feels natural (to me) to look at ways to encourage Commanders to use Open Play. However, It’s also fairly clear that human opposition is potentially, and generally speaking, much more of a significant threat than NPCs.

Now we have to consider probabilities. Yes, it’s perfectly reasonable to say that you might never run into a human opponent in a control system, even playing in open. The fact remains however, that you *might* instead run into several. And this is on top of the standard NPC threat, which is identical in all play modes.

What’s more, the more pledged Commanders that play in Open, the greater the likelihood there is of human interaction and conflict.

There are thousands of Commanders that engage to some degree or another in Powerplay. Some play in Open, some don’t. If we are successful in getting more Commanders into Open, then the potential for them bumping into each other could increase rather significantly.

And there’s another point to make here, that’s quite simple but also fairly undeniable, is that playing in Open you don’t just meet other Commanders pledged to Powers. You meet *all* other Commanders. That includes all sorts of scum and villainy (character persona only, of course).



Considering this concept, plain, straight forward, Open play as as its advocates already pointed out, is the main road to PvP. Notjust tolerated, a mere side step but a thought out and deliberately encouraged central part of Open play. On top of all coop/contend. I mention it here, although absolute obviously: with everyone you may or may not encounter!

Don't delude yourself.

Conflict in Open is of paramount importance, thought after, looked for and deliberately thought out and encouraged.

The "conflict" in Power Play is pushing PvE tokens about, which can be done in any mode.
So by design Power Play cannot be a feature made for direct PvP fights.
You don't even earn merits doing direct PvP fights in Power Play.

I'm almost starting to think some Frontier staff members are trolling when they say PP is for PvP.
They not only designed the system and know full well PvP has nothing to do with PP but they also refuse to add merits for doing PvP.

The whole game is based on choosing if you want to directly interact with people or not on a session by session basis.
This includes doing BGS work, CGs, CZs, RES, PP, Engineering, Missions.... and so on.
Nothing in the game besides CQC/Arena pushes PvP. As everything can be done in Solo.

 

[Eidolon]

With the block list?

 

[Jockey79]

With the block list?

Aye, it was new and improve a while ago.

It used to be the in game block feature was just a chat only block and you have to go to the main menu to instance block a player under Friends and Groups.
But Frontier re-designed it so chat block and instance block were combined into the same menu option in game.

So when a player loads in to a new system, they can jump to the chat menus, see who is about and just block them there and then.
So if/when a player tried to pull them over - both will get thrown in to their own empty instances as the block takes effect.

From what I gather, there is an override to the block feature though;

Player A puts B on block.
Players A and B are friends with player C

Player B and C are in a Wing together - player A can be put in an instance with them due to the Friends list having a higher priority than the block list.

So blocking isn't 100% as other factors can override it.
But if you are aware of this and play accordingly, then Open mode can be just as much a PvE mode as the Mobius Groups are.
(Like not accepting random people as friends or going in to Wings with people you don't know etc)

 

[Dietger]

How?



PvP is optional at all times, even in Open.
True.
I can just jump to the number 2 menu and put you on block the moment you show up in my contacts list.
True. You also can repeat the above for everyone you will encounter - in Open. The ONLY way to successfully avoiding direct PvP in Open.[wacko]
I can play Open all day and not see a soul.
True.
So explain how Open is PvP mode.

Greetings Jockey79, I'll try.


[/B]The "conflict" in Power Play is pushing PvE tokens about, which can be done in any mode.
True.
So by design Power Play cannot be a feature made for direct PvP fights.
True in Solo, true in any group deliberately agree NOT to attack each other.
You don't even earn merits doing direct PvP fights in Power Play.
An oversight?

I'm almost starting to think some Frontier staff members are trolling when they say PP is for PvP.
Certainly! The space lurch is the troll himself, wilfully and deliberately forcing all participants in Open mode to be a subject to direct player vs player confrontations.
They not only designed the system and know full well PvP has nothing to do with PP but they also refuse to add merits for doing PvP.
And on top of that, those wretches grossly and negligently ignore the fact that, while hitting for Open, you may not at this point like to PvP. How comes?

The whole game is based on choosing if you want to directly interact with people or not on a session by session basis.
True. That's what you do. We all do. Choosing Open for example, you deliberately choose to accept any chance of a chance encounter with other Commanders!
This includes doing BGS work, CGs, CZs, RES, PP, Engineering, Missions.... and so on.
True as well. We do all of the above in all three modes. Even in Open. ONLY, while you choose to fly in the ALL Group Open, you yourself can not, be any means avoid Commanders
Nothing in the game besides CQC/Arena pushes PvP. As everything can be done in Solo.
Again truth.

The general idea, to share a single player driven Galaxy in all modes is wonderful.
There is only one mode to avoid all and only one where, while you yourself haven't a say, must be all in one. Even here the good folks at Frontier provide a tool to (try to) ignore hectoring, ganking&griefers.
Be so good to remember, the ignore list only works AFTER the kid fell into the well.

So in truth, how can you, me and everyone playing Elite Dangerous in Open, ignore that fact, that all things considered Open IS the mode for spontaneous unrestricted PvP???
No one here can.

 

[Robert Maynard]

So in truth, how can you, me and everyone playing Elite Dangerous in Open, ignore that fact, that all things considered Open IS the mode for spontaneous unrestricted PvP???
No one here can.

That's not really the point as it seems clear to me that Open is Open-PvP.

However, the game is not designed around PvP (i.e. does not require the player to engage in PvP at all) as players can simply go about their business, affecting what they choose to affect, in other modes.

 

[Sylveria]

That's not really the point as it seems clear to me that Open is Open-PvP.

However, the game is not designed around PvP (i.e. does not require the player to engage in PvP at all) as players can simply go about their business, affecting what they choose to affect, in other modes.

Agreed. It can just as easily be said that the game was designed around PvE as there are more PvE activities made available in ED than PvP through Missions.

The "apple or orange" debate is pointless- whether you choose PvP or PvE as your focus (or a bit of both) the reality here is that there are three game modes to choose from that cover all the bases, as it should be.

 

[Dietger]

That's not really the point as it seems clear to me that Open is Open-PvP.

However, the game is not designed around PvP (i.e. does not require the player to engage in PvP at all) as players can simply go about their business, affecting what they choose to affect, in other modes.

Greetings Robert

I agree here, Elite is not especially and explicit a PvP game. However, PvP is a part of Elite now. AND PvP is of the outmost importance in Open MODE, because noone there can possible avoid it.

First and foremost I see how open a structure the game provides, possibly trying to gather certain play stiles into special modes, and this is the point, among other things, PvP has its place.
The place for PvP in its most direct and straightforward manner is Open. My reasoning, only here, in Open, can you at all time be in focus of someone's attention. Taking the liberty to engage and challenging YOU a fellow player.

Elite is not especially and explicit a PvP game. However, PvP possible in two out of three modes, has its prinzipal unrestricted, as is, out of the box MAIN game mode in Open.
Open in Elite IS especially and explicit a PvP mode therefore. Simply put, there is no other mode possibly suited for the liberty it takes.

Now who wants to avoid PvP in Open and how would you, possibly do so? The most controversial thing discussed here in the forum is about weather or not to PvP in Open. And if at all.... or if you want to, how its "done properly right".

Ad nauseam...

 

[Jockey79]

Greetings Robert

I agree here, Elite is not especially and explicit a PvP game. However, PvP is a part of Elite now. AND PvP is of the outmost importance in Open MODE, because noone there can possible avoid it.

First and foremost I see how open a structure the game provides, possibly trying to gather certain play stiles into special modes, and this is the point, among other things, PvP has its place.
The place for PvP in its most direct and straightforward manner is Open. My reasoning, only here, in Open, can you at all time be in focus of someone's attention. Taking the liberty to engage and challenging YOU a fellow player.

Elite is not especially and explicit a PvP game. However, PvP possible in two out of three modes, has its prinzipal unrestricted, as is, out of the box MAIN game mode in Open.
Open in Elite IS especially and explicit a PvP mode therefore. Simply put, there is no other mode possibly suited for the liberty it takes.

Now who wants to avoid PvP in Open and how would you, possibly do so? The most controversial thing discussed here in the forum is about weather or not to PvP in Open. And if at all.... or if you want to, how its "done properly right".

Ad nauseam...

"out of the box MAIN game mode" - there is no main game mode. The menu is in alphabetical order. No mode is the "main" mode.

You can also avoid PvP in open if you want to avoid it.
By blocking players you do not want to play with.

I can block everyone and keep my friends available, and open would be a PvE game for me.

 

[Sylveria]

"out of the box MAIN game mode" - there is no main game mode. The menu is in alphabetical order. No mode is the "main" mode.

Yet, they still keep trying with their assertions, years later to insist there's a "main mode". It's hilarious every time I read them.

To think, all of the endless threadnoughts of PvE vs PvP debate could have been completely avoided had they simply given Open a proper flagging mechanic like almost every other MMO out there has.

They could still do so for Private Groups and it wouldn't change the way Open works in the slightest. A win-win situation for everyone. Open gets their FFA PvP and PG's gets Co-op PvE or PvP as they wish.

 

[Jockey79]

Yet, they still keep trying with their assertions, years later to insist there's a "main mode". It's hilarious every time I read them.

To think, all of the endless threadnoughts of PvE vs PvP debate could have been completely avoided had they simply given Open a proper flagging mechanic like almost every other MMO out there has.

They could still do so for Private Groups and it wouldn't change the way Open works in the slightest. A win-win situation for everyone. Open gets their FFA PvP and PG's gets Co-op PvE or PvP as they wish.

A PvP flag was talked about in the KS/DDA - but the idea was refused for being "immersion breaking".
Yet with a PvP flag system, PGs' wouldn't be so popular as they wouldn't be needed as much.
And the galaxy might feel a bit more alive with more folks in open.

Though I'd still use PGs myself, I like the emptiness of space.
I also like being able to dock at CGs and not fight for a spot

 

[Sylveria]

A PvP flag was talked about in the KS/DDA - but the idea was refused for being "immersion breaking".
Yet with a PvP flag system, PGs' wouldn't be so popular as they wouldn't be needed as much.
And the galaxy might feel a bit more alive with more folks in open.

Though I'd still use PGs myself, I like the emptiness of space.
I also like being able to dock at CGs and not fight for a spot

Yeah I remember all the "hollow box" discussions regarding the flagging system... and I still disagree with the "muhrsion breaking" point of view.

Mainly it's all PvPers who got spoiled by FPS type games or EVE Online where they could enjoy seal clubbing (and where it's also encouraged) without consequence as opposed to actually being pitted against others who were willing give them the "risk" they so often talk about in their hyperbole they spew. All it would take is making those players who do not flag for PvP untargetable/unengageable and it would be the same concept as not being able to destroy a station. They already incorporated non-destructible objects in-game, so the argument that they have to be able to target and destroy everything is moot.

As to the PG's flag vs Solo... it's all personal choice, sure- but I'd likely play in PG's more often if I could enjoy content without having to wonder if some trigger happy moron who exploited the game mechanics by infiltrating a group (where the agreement by joining is NO PvP) decides to let loose for lulz. All the while when I followed the KS/DDA I had wished that as a concession they'd at least incorporate flagging in PG's since they didn't for Open, but as they didn't I opted for Solo instead.

I don't have a problem with people wanting to PvP... I take issue, however, when people want to attack the game modes as an attempt to pigeonhole everyone else into being their "content" and will fight it as long as I play this game.

 

[Dietger]

"out of the box MAIN game mode" - there is no main game mode. The menu is in alphabetical order. No mode is the "main" mode.

You can also avoid PvP in open if you want to avoid it.
By blocking players you do not want to play with.

I can block everyone and keep my friends available, and open would be a PvE game for me.

Absolute Jockey absolute.
Not a GAME MAIN mode. I label it a PvP MAIN mode, resoning provided see above. Block whom you must. You can't avoid PvP logic implies why not.
You can't be design, deliberately NOT in Open.

Therefore: Open=MAIN PvP/MODE


Why?
Cos here and only here, in Open, all players give consent and accept non consensual PvP




You have always the choice. Three modes, three choices perfectly OK not to PvP in Open, you don't need to. But , you must if your fellow Commander(s) want to. Perfectly OK, in Open. This mode, Open is the ONLY mode where this will happen in mutual agreement. By choices made before hitting PLAY, choosing Open.