Getting EXTREMELY frustrated with a certain interdiction exploit

[Lobstris]

I'm amazed at the amount of grief the OP got for pointing out something that *is* an exploit IMHO. FWIW my take is 1) Damage (and maintenance and ship) costs need to be revised downwards across the board, 2) loosing or submitting to an interdiction should have an FSD cool-down timer measured in minutes, not seconds, 3) turrets should be un-nerfed regarding targeting for trader's defence, but their damage reduced further 4) I'd like to see some form of electronic warfare implemented to scramble ships systems (e.g. ion cannon from starwars) and more damage to modules possible, without resulting in a player or AI kill (and conversely more ways to repair modules - like FDevs 'juryrigging' suggestion) 5) police response to be beefed up in civilised systems. 6) Trade in anarchies to have an extra 'bonus' to certain goods to make trading them far more worthwhile. 7) For the love of all that is holy FDev, get grouping right, and add the ability to hire decent escort AI for protection/attack ASAP. 8) I noted with interest that D Braben mentioned using steath tactics to mask ship numbers in the Escapist interview - really hope tacktics like that come about.
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To players saying 'I'm a trader/explorer, don't try and force your gameplay on me', well, erm, sorry, isn't that what the solo and group options are for? And even then, those should offer the same danger as open if the AI and game mechanics were up to snuff (heading in the right direction at present) - including the very occasional psychopathic AI who just wants to watch the world and your ship burn. Would the original elite have been popular if it just had the trading element alone?
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We all did sign up to a game with 'Dangerous' in the title - ask yourself what you are more scared of at present, space itself, other players, the AI or the bugs? Should be the former three, but its really the latter isn't it? So far since gamma I've been interdicted '0' times by players and made 1 8000cr insurance claim. Not quite what I was expecting... (contrast to the number of avatars I've lost in Nether or DayZ in the past year).
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The one thing I hate most about E: D at present is how safe general spaceflight feels. Combat (PvP or PvAI) should be integral to the normal, everyday, super-cruise experience in unsafe systems. If I'm in a anarchy shouldn't have to fly to a USS/Nav Beacon/Resource Extraction Site/Big signpost in the sky saying 'hot action here (possibly)' to have action spawn around me - I should be expecting it from player or AI alike.

 

[Distance]

Except it's rather difficult to target the wake and get in there in time to stop the pirate from taking your stuff, since approaching the wakes is currently really bogus and often you overshoot even at 75%.

Also, if your encounter with the pirate is a high speed chase, after 30 seconds you are already outside scanner range, so your wingmen will drop into a seemingly empty instance.




Player Pirates in Lave or Yemba are far more common than AI pirates[/FONT][/COLOR]

Things are hard and things are broken. You can't complain about people complaining about broken game mechanics by complaining that you need to keep in those broken game mechanics as the alternative game mechanics to counter them are broken . . .

 

[Yank31]

Needless to say, I am extremely annoyed and tired of the fact that "submitting" to interdiction lets you leave almost as soon as you arrive. I know many of you will say "get gud" or "get a faster/masslocking ship" but I don't want to grind to play at pirate whilst losing money. Ever since my first million credits, I have only pirated. It should be a career not an expensive hobby.

But I digress. My Cobra is nearly the fastest ship with weapons possible (455m/s boost speed) and heavily armed. Should it really be impossible for me to pose any threat to a weaponless mid-tier trader? (whose ship, btw, likely costs far less than my 3mil). All while making more money in one trip than I do in an evening!

Not 100% how interdiction works but (as a trader) I agree that you shouldn't get quick FSD charge after a submission. Imo you should get some shield/hull/heat dmg if you fail to evade, and no shield/hull/heat dmg if you submit. But a longer FSD charge in both case.

However regarding your ship, I'd say : pirate ships you can handle, then. Hauler, Adder, other Cobras. You can't mass lock the big fishes. And that's because you chose not to do trades, but to stay with a Cobra. All fine, but then you should play around your self-chosen limits.

Were you to consider that there are more T6s than anything, then maybe you should consider changing ship, if you want to mass lock them. Asp comes to mind. I don't think the Clipper can mass-lock anything (still has 0 mass, no?) and Python, well... quite grindy to get, and quite slow anyway, you won't be able to stay in range.

So there's basically only the Asp left. Which is fine because you could trade with it, too, in order to get some cash to equip it for pirating.

Also I want to point out that, well, you cannot really compare your ship price to their ship price to get an accurate idea of the risks each other has in a pirate encounter. For traders, up to the T7/Clipper, the risk mostly comes from the cargo price. 104T cargo roughly means up to 800k~1.2M cargo (gold/pala). That's a potential 800 to 1.2M straight loss, no insurance on that. Then you add the rebuy cost. I was running a beefed up T6 (back then), ship price was ~6M. That's 300k rebuy cost. Even with a maxed out T6, the rebuy cost is basically... nothing, compared to the cargo at risk.

Need to take that into account when talking about money / prices equilibrium, I think.

***

Sorry, had to say these things, now I understand your point is more about making piracy actually work. Well, first, change ship imo, if you want to mass lock T6s. Then, yes, interdiction mechanisms could probably see some work. Will they do... no idea, so yeah, again... change ship!

 

[EAGLE 5]

Until they fix/nerf/change/rework the system I suggest that the OP sit down and watch a few hours of NatGeo. That will show that a lion running after antilopes pounces on the foolish/slow/weak/gimp ones not those that can haul ass across the steppes.

Just sayin

 

[Commander Debic]

I personally play all roles. Haven't pirated much since first few weeks of release and that was only npcs which was even more broken than pirating players. Out of everything I've played in my 600 hours of game time so far piracy and bounty hunting were the most fun. Mining the worst and trading bores the hell out of me too. I'm doing a 1.3 mil an hour trade route at the moment and it's killing me and actually making me want to quit playing since it's the only viable way to make money. This isn't good for the game in the long run as if all the combat players quit due to boredom the future won't look good for the game especially as all of the marketing videos FD put out rarely show trading. You can't tell people to try all round play if you yourself advocate against playing one style of game play.


Regards to pve, I'm open only myself but I'll always point players to morbius as I think it's great but I really wish fd would have just put in a proper pve mode as right now with open mode trying to please everyone it's just pleasing noone and causing too much crap with people shouting to go play solo or group.

The mentality people are trying to make open mode is "you can play it your own way as long as you don't shoot the traders and only shoot npcs".

I never said I only trade, I also explore and after a while doing either of those I go to Nav beacons with my Clipper/Viper and play with the NPC's and other times at USS and resource sites as well as taking on some npc hunting pirate missions. I just don't like PVP as I have had enough of meeting quite a few ats in other PVP games. Getting too old now to be bothered with them as it is often Elitist Jerks waving their large things about a lot of the time, and it seems to have got a lot uglier in the last 4 years or so.
There was a time when PVP was fun, but whether I am getting too old or they are getting more objectionable I am not sure. One other reason for no longer wanting to do PVP is the fact that as my age now affects the swiftness of my responses, both physically and mentally, I will very much more often than not, lose against players where I do at least have a chance against NPC's. Continually losing isn't really a lot of fun.

I think there has been as much whining and crying from both sides on this thread. I don't think it fair to claim one side is more of one thing than the other.

 

[seansamurai1]

Wait, so something that's in the game on an official capacity is an exploit?
you do know the whole point of submitting is to cause minimum damage to their own ship and to give them a chance to escape from an over priviledged player who thinks everyone should just give them cargo?

If I get interdicted, I'll try the escape vector, if that's failing, I'll submit, why? Because it puts me in a better position to defend or run, oh and not suffer a repair bill.

 

[Riktar]

You message me, the I decide if I want to respond. I either accept or reject your invitation. You interdict me, I decide whether I want any interaction with you. The interdiction is the invitation, now I get to decide whether I want to submit, play pew pew or just leave. YOU do not get to decide how I spend the next few minutes of MY game time.

Joe just hit this one out of the park. I hear the same base point from all sides (Trader, bounty Hunter and pirate) in this thread:

You are not playing the game the way I want YOU to play.

Well too freaking bad. Join a group that caters to your style, play in solo, or suck it up in open. And this is for all sides of this argument.

+1 Joe, as well as rep coming for you.

 

[CdrTwisted]

Wait, so something that's in the game on an official capacity is an exploit?
you do know the whole point of submitting is to cause minimum damage to their own ship and to give them a chance to escape from an over priviledged player who thinks everyone should just give them cargo?

If I get interdicted, I'll try the escape vector, if that's failing, I'll submit, why? Because it puts me in a better position to defend or run, oh and not suffer a repair bill.

Yes it would be much more sensible if you were better off by fighting interdiction, and if you had the opportunity to fit a device that would help you fight off interdiction.

At the moment there is little incentive to fight interdiction as the risk of losing is higher than by submitting.

 

[Yokai]

I have basically given up on these forums, and I promised myself to not post anything more - but your post kind of made me want to cry a bit.

If you are going to pirate people - then do so to players willing to be pirated and play along. If harmless traders can beat you at your own game, then more power to them. If spamming interdictions and station camping isn't working for you, then learn to do it better. Many people have.

And as for complaining about harmless traders smacking pirates in the face with a wet fish in Open - with just as many pirates complaining about not having enough harmless traders in Open to seal-club - my mind just boggles.

This. So much this.

The pirate's rationale: "I want to inflict my will on other players without them being able to inflict their will up on me."

 

[QziQza]

Yes of course, all those loud traders should be quiet and listen to the quiet, considerate, polite PVP guys telling us about this exploit that isn't an exploit. Perhaps the mod is right or perhaps he isn't. When a Dev comes here and says it is a bug, then fixes it so that haulers can be taken out without being able to escape, perhaps the noisy traders will shut up and let those caring PVP' ers gank them into group and solo play.
Oh by the way it was a crying pirate who started the thread in case you missed that.

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Notice how the op stated how big and strong his Cobra was against those nasty runaway haulers, would like to see him ganking even the nerfed Python if it was trading and being driven by a reasonably good combat oriented pirate, and whether he would stay and fight or run away like the prey he is crying about here. Oh yes then he would come on here and call for the Python's hard points to be nerfed to just 2 class 1's, as long as they leave his 400+ speed armoured Cobra tank as it is.

I enjoyed this post although you did forget to use the word 'minority' when describing us whining traders because, if i may use the recent community project as an axample, it was quite clear that the thousands of traders hauling the millions of tons of cargo where so totally outnumbered by pirates and bounty hunters in and around the area. lol

 

[Commander Debic]

I enjoyed this post although you did forget to use the word 'minority' when describing us whining traders because, if i may use the recent community project as an axample, it was quite clear that the thousands of traders hauling the millions of tons of cargo where so totally outnumbered by pirates and bounty hunters in and around the area. lol

Dammit, your right, old age see, memory failing, sight failing, legs and other bits failing. Now where the devil did I put my other glasses. Life is so confusing these days, sigh.:S

 

[McDosy]

Just to echo what most people are saying: submitting to gain an advantage is an exploit.

It would make much more sense if the longer you survived the interdiction before getting hauled in, the shorter your FSD cooldown. The interdiction process is one of the most fun bits of the game, imho. Frontier should be encouraging people to play it, not dodge it.

 

[Quineloe]

Things are hard and things are broken. You can't complain about people complaining about broken game mechanics by complaining that you need to keep in those broken game mechanics as the alternative game mechanics to counter them are broken . . .

I am not complaining about anything. You are stating facts, I am disagreeing with your stated facts. Currently, escorts are not an option. I'm not saying 'Because escorts are broken, so must interdiction remain broken', that is you putting words in my mouth.

 

[neXib]

There's plenty of mechanics.
A: They get bounties on them, and there are plenty of bounty hunters out there.
B: They get damage if you fight back, which is costly.
C: They can't sell stolen goods at any old station, they have to do it in black markets.
D: It's not NEARLY as profitable as trading, so it's not a "fast lane" to riches in any way.
E: It's one of the most hated professions in the game.
F: Even if they get killed, they still have to pay off their bounties before respawning.

Now, what more punshment do you need?

A: Which they can pay off or dodge easily with any half decent ship, there's not "plenty" of bounty hunters, since there's no good mechanic to find a pirate. Bounty hunting makes even less sense than pirating, because you can just get out of your bounties if you are a pirate, unless you want to use it as a showcase.
B: Depends on the ship if it's costly or not, doesn't really cost much in a Cobra.
C: That's not a problem, if you pirate in an area where there's no known black market location you are bad at this game.
D: Neither is exploration, that's not an excuse to be an a-hole about it
E: Not really, I don't mind pirates, I mind complaining pirates
F: Tough luck, so do I if I graze the station when exiting

All your points can easily be remedied by the player making a choice. A player who's trading can't take those choices, he has to get from A to B, pretty much defenseless, although he'll have something if he's sensible.

My point that you don't seem to get is that these players need someone that have a reason for defending them, otherwise they are just sitting ducks for pirates. We need mercenaries to balance it out before pirates get any advantages. Pirates then complaining about how hard it is gets no sympathy for me. Tough luck is all I say, it's not easy exploring either, do I go about ing and moaning about it? No.

All in all it would be fair that some ships are fast and nimble and can escape a heavy loaded attacker, some big fat ones (Type-X) are pretty defenseless, but until there's mechanic where they can be defended I don't see the point in giving attackers more advantages.

 

[MaraJade]

Apologies for the flame-war-ey title, but I've grown increasingly annoyed over the past few days and I need to vent. I even created a forum account to post.

So I'm a pirate operating in Yembo. It's a tough, poorly paying career fraught with danger and risk (I suppose that's the price for player interaction and good gameplay...).

However, more and more lately, CMDRs (always in type 6s for some reason) have been SUBMITTING to my interdiction, and then IMMEDIATELY supercruising away, bypassing the usual interdiction FSD cooldown and making them virtually impossible to do more than a few points of hull damage to.

Just now, I interdicted the same commander 3 times. The first time, they submitted, and I told them to cut their engines. They didn't respond, merely charged their FSD. I attacked them in response, but failed to get their shields down.

I immediately followed them to supercruise, and had to follow them for 400LS before I could catch up and interdict again. Once more, they submitted, and once more, they immediately boosted away and charged their FSD. This time, I opened fire immediately, managing to do 10-20% damage before they jumped again.

Once more I followed, once more I interdicted, and yup you guessed it once more they submitted. This was only 20Mm from the station so I didn't even bother with the warning, blasting at their shields immediately. I had just managed to get them down again before they vanished.

I even followed them to the damn station, but was too late, they slid through the docking port just as I got in range. I proceeded to camp outside the station with thrusters off and temp at 27% to hide my wanted status for a good 5-10 mins, but they either retreated back to Solo or logged off for the night.

Needless to say, I am extremely annoyed and tired of the fact that "submitting" to interdiction lets you leave almost as soon as you arrive. I know many of you will say "get gud" or "get a faster/masslocking ship" but I don't want to grind to play at pirate whilst losing money. Ever since my first million credits, I have only pirated. It should be a career not an expensive hobby.

But I digress. My Cobra is nearly the fastest ship with weapons possible (455m/s boost speed) and heavily armed. Should it really be impossible for me to pose any threat to a weaponless mid-tier trader? (whose ship, btw, likely costs far less than my 3mil). All while making more money in one trip than I do in an evening!

PLEASE Frontier, do something about this ridiculous exploit. And traders who play in open: please don't use it! If you don't want to face pirates, that's fine, just don't trade in the most populated system in the game in Open mode!

This makes me laugh. good one.

So as long as everything works in your favor it's okay otherwise it's an "exploit"

I fly a T-7 brick. Submitting right away stops haul damage and allows me to escape if I need to.

Try doing trading for a bit and loosing a couple million credits. Bet then you won't think it's an exploit.

 

[Distance]

I never said I only trade, I also explore and after a while doing either of those I go to Nav beacons with my Clipper/Viper and play with the NPC's and other times at USS and resource sites as well as taking on some npc hunting pirate missions. I just don't like PVP as I have had enough of meeting quite a few ats in other PVP games. Getting too old now to be bothered with them as it is often Elitist Jerks waving their large things about a lot of the time, and it seems to have got a lot uglier in the last 4 years or so.
There was a time when PVP was fun, but whether I am getting too old or they are getting more objectionable I am not sure. One other reason for no longer wanting to do PVP is the fact that as my age now affects the swiftness of my responses, both physically and mentally, I will very much more often than not, lose against players where I do at least have a chance against NPC's. Continually losing isn't really a lot of fun.

I think there has been as much whining and crying from both sides on this thread. I don't think it fair to claim one side is more of one thing than the other.

I never said you were just a trader. The way you play is fine and I understand and respect that since you play in a pve group and don't go to open trying to force people to play in a pve group. I play open because even though I'm not the best I backed the game for pvp (good or bad) so that's how I like to play even if I haven't seen more than 3 players in the last 2 weeks. Nothing wrong with your comments but it's not really pertinent to the discussion since we're talking about a broken game mechanic and people are derailing the thread in to "pirates are scum" as usual.

Whilst it's true that there's whining on both sides, if there's even a hint of pvp in a thread title you'll have 100 traders comparing the op or several posters on the thread to real life rapists and murders or other such inflammatory stuff (not hyperbole go read the combat logging thread). There's more traders in game trading whilst chatting on the forum than there are combat orientated players shooting and chatting at the same time.

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I am not complaining about anything. You are stating facts, I am disagreeing with your stated facts. Currently, escorts are not an option. I'm not saying 'Because escorts are broken, so must interdiction remain broken', that is you putting words in my mouth.

Escorts are as much an option as piracy is a viable career right now

 

[netshaman [VR]]

You pirates are the plague of this galaxy !!!
Attacking harmless traders with your big guns is soooooo heroic !!!
Am i a little angry ?
Yes, when i think about the 140 Ly i had travelled to go to the station in construction in that system i don't remember the name ( damnit ) , and find a pirate witch want my cargo => i prefer combat and going to pieces than giving this to that scum which dares cutting off all my work damnit !
I get so frustrated than i rage quitted the game, and decided to never participate again in such a thing, sorry but in a such event the police MUST be here to protect traders !
I prefer going playing on my own far , far away at the other end of the galaxy, it is more fun.

P.S:Beware pirates, i will shoot you on sight if i see you ( with a more powerfull ship especially equipped for hunting and bigger guns ), be warned !

 

[Skuli]

No one has touched on the real problem with pirating.

The pirates risk nothing but what, a few hundred k rebuy at most?

The traders stand to lose multiple millions every single time.

Bounty needs to be replaced with a more permenant outlaw status of some sort that turns the respective stations hostile and invites immediate police aggression and interdiction.

A federation outlaw should only ever feel safe in empire, alliance, or anarchy.

 

[NathanM]

Be careful what you wish for

Its simple, someone who likes PVP will want to fight, not run, thus traders are probably not people who like pvp (if they were then they would be pirates). If you nerf the low FSD CD you will simply not find any traders to interdict as if you cant run as a trader then you are doomed as you sure as hell cant fight.

Putting items ingame that allow you to lower/raise the FSD CD is also doomed as by definition rich players will get them and use them against new/poor players, "my ship is better than yours, give me all your cargo" ofc thats going to be awesome fun for everyone *sarcasm*, wake up.

How about the OP exchanges his ship for a Type-6 and allows all the other pirates to blast him to bits and take his cargo for a few days, hey maybe they would do the same?... no wait he wouldnt find it fun to be on the reciving end but is stupid enough to assume everyone else does, fail.

 

[seansamurai1]

It's not an exploit.
an exploit is something like the alt f4.
or even worse using a bug or glitch to ones advantage.
submitting is neither, the fact it even writes it across your screen when you submit.

If you submit a pirate interdiction at sea, you avoid taking damage because they aren't shooting at you, it also puts you in a better stead for defence.
if you run you might getaway, if you don't, you're gonna take damage.
interdictions cause damage, some peoples ships cost a lot to repair, so your little interdiction has not only cost cargo but the possibility of a large repair bill.
then you wonder why they submit......