Getting EXTREMELY frustrated with a certain interdiction exploit

[QziQza]

I'd be much better with separate save files for solo and open play. Pirates are in the worst position of all "professions", traders are in the best position (and they are whining most of the time...). Because of one solo/open save it's bassicaly on pirates shoulders to keep this thing going. Push too hard and whiny traders will go solo, push too weak and you'll get nothing... Silly players whing about losing half of their t7 cargo to the pirates once a day but let's ask them how much profit they have per day. Millions? Tens of millions? How much profit a good player pirate has? Don't ask. Traders have "high reward" gameplay so they should also have a high risk. Don't even star with "I hate pirates! It's my money! I earned it!" It's ED, not space truck simulator. If you don't want pirates then go play something else. Imo it's still too easy for traders to roam the glalaxy and make millions without any problems form anyone and anything. Too easy in game which shoud be Dangerous.

So if traders are in the best position why isnt everyone trading.. oh yeah, because they dont want to or cant deal with the grind. i dont give a rats ass what role folks want to play, but i do get tired of the 'this is better than that' or 'the roles need balanced' or 'it should be played like this' garbage. every captain is free to play any role THEY choose, whining about someone elses role being easier or better or worth more ec is just petty and pretty much a matter of envy, if you want to earn lots, trade! if you dont want to trade then you wont earn lots.

for me the game is about doing what i like to do, i did after all pay for the game, so who is anyone to tell me how to play it? the last thing i am going to do is make a decision to play this game by anothers perception of it. if people choose to play the game dependant on other players actions, dont whine when those other players dont conform to or do what they expect or want. also, a single loss in a loaded type 9 can hit near 9million cr.. so am i ever going to take a chance on the pirate on my 6 just taking some cargo? or am i going to assume the pirate will just blow me up for fun and giggles? any sane person is always going to assume the worst, boost - chaff - mines - boost - heat sink - FSD and gone?

 

[Korenwolf]

Who scoops at zero throttle? I would never skim stationary for just this reason.

Explorers (though once we're out into the great black), drop out target the star, start the space horn, get in scooping range and kill power (well inside the 100% heat limit) and then drop to the system view to see whether it's worth scanning the system.

 

[netshaman [VR]]

No one has touched on the real problem with pirating.

The pirates risk nothing but what, a few hundred k rebuy at most?

The traders stand to lose multiple millions every single time.

Bounty needs to be replaced with a more permenant outlaw status of some sort that turns the respective stations hostile and invites immediate police aggression and interdiction.

A federation outlaw should only ever feel safe in empire, alliance, or anarchy.

I agree, in the ancient Frontier Elite 2 , that was the case, even in the first Elite.
They cannot do what they want without being ever worried a little bit.

 

[Commander Debic]

My final thoughts on the thread are that the interdiction introduction reminds me of the little minigames that made their appearance in WoW, when I played it.
I spent time learning my skills for my character and Blizzard came along and had me playing mini games that totally ignored my skills and required me to use silly buttons and overpowered special temporary skills to play the mini game.

I would prefer that the interdiction minigame had never been introduced and some other form of interrupting game play had been devised that utilised the players skills, as mini games are only interesting for the first day then usually become a boring nuisance.

 

[netshaman [VR]]

ED is not WOW sorry.
Interdictions are in the license since the first game, ED without interdictions is not ED.
The game needs some balancing for this.
Like Skuli said, in federation systems, piracy must be NOT tolerated at all by the police, like in the First games.
The game is lame considering this point.

 

[stumagoo]

There is n exploit or problem here as there is already a fix, there are people talking about fsd scramblers etc, or slowing down fsd charge up. the real problem is pirates in cheap smaller ships taking on big mass ships and complaining. sorry buddy go get a python (oops that was nerfed to apease the viper kids) but get a ship that can mass lock the traders and go for gold, I do it in my asp when when required on anything t6 or smaller.

The solution is already in game, the problem is not the mechanic its working as it should its the fact that too many people want to get something for nothing, be it as a pirate in a legitimate role or as a pure pvper wanting to kill bigger ships that should out gun them. on the other side we have traders grinding their guts out doing the hours to get the big ships to have them nerfed because apparently more expensive ships should give no advantages in anyway. I have read now that even trading in a large ship pulls a bulk haulage tax.

If things carry on like this there is no point in going beyond a viper as it can do everything at a fraction of the grind involved.

 

[Antidepressiva]

it depends on what they are doing at the time, if you are lucky enough to catch one fuel scooping you're laughing as they will already be at zero throttle and drop out right away.

That is the reason why i circle around the sun with full speed while fuel scooping

 

[Korenwolf]

Just to echo what most people are saying: submitting to gain an advantage is an exploit.

Nope, it's using the mechanic as designed (though FD have stated elsewhere they're looking at the timers), no exploit simply a rational decision, if I'm in a big fat T7 which moves like a slug then my chances to evade are low, it is a simple cost/benefit check to accept, boost as hard as possible while assessing the situation and then decide on whether to jump out or not.

I have to make the assumption that the person yanking me intends to destroy, my actions are dictated by the behaviour of the PvP side who like to get their easy kills for kicks.

 

[TieKnee]

I have basically given up on these forums, and I promised myself to not post anything more - but your post kind of made me want to cry a bit.

If you are going to pirate people - then do so to players willing to be pirated and play along. If harmless traders can beat you at your own game, then more power to them. If spamming interdictions and station camping isn't working for you, then learn to do it better. Many people have.

And as for complaining about harmless traders smacking pirates in the face with a wet fish in Open - with just as many pirates complaining about not having enough harmless traders in Open to seal-club - my mind just boggles.

Enjoy the game for what it is. Look forward to it's evolution and forthcoming improvements, just don't get upset when someone else can dictate how you interact with them.

Good post - fully agree...

 

[QziQza]

Just to echo what most people are saying: submitting to gain an advantage is an exploit.

It would make much more sense if the longer you survived the interdiction before getting hauled in, the shorter your FSD cooldown. The interdiction process is one of the most fun bits of the game, imho. Frontier should be encouraging people to play it, not dodge it.

even in real world terms submission is a well used tactic, its akin to putting things on your terms. the most aggressive stance in Wing Chun appears totally submissive, watch cats play fight, they lie on their back and offer up their soft belly to entice you in, it is all about making the most out of what you have, puting you on the front foot and minimising risk. Maybe you should try fighting an interdiction in a type 7 or type 9.. hang on, i'll save you the trouble.. unless the opponent is afk you cant, and loosing an interdiction in a type 9, even if you dont end up dead can cost close to 1 milion. so erm, no thats not really my idea of fun or getting into the spirit of doing what a pirate wants.

 

[Googol]

Explorers (though once we're out into the great black), drop out target the star, start the space horn, get in scooping range and kill power (well inside the 100% heat limit) and then drop to the system view to see whether it's worth scanning the system.

With the qualification you include, you have a point, although when I need to scoop I will start the process on the move while triggering the foghorn and checking the scanner for other ships. Only then will I stop to scan the star while I check system view. Seems everyone has their own process

 

[Oddball_E8]

Yes, this is almost the only truly sensible post in the thread. The only possible advantage to playing the mini game is saving a few seconds travel time.

Ultimately what we should be aiming for is a mechanic where one player can try to interdict another, both of them play the mini game, and the outcome decides whether or not a battle takes place. We shouldn't ordinarily be seeing multiple interdictions and it should be harder to run away while in normal space than in supercruise. If there are any new modules to be made, they ought to give traders/interdictees a better chance of winning the minigame, an ECM to make interdiction harder, not some way of patching up the mechanic by blocking FSDs.

I'd suggest that:

1. If a pirate interdicts and loses, his FSDI goes into a cool down that is long enough for the trader to get away far enough that you can't interdict them again. At the moment I'm not sure that happens. Perhaps it should be as long as 60 seconds, but maybe 30s to discourage laziness. In fact I think winning a minigame ought to make you effectively immune from interdiction by anyone for a period of time.

2. If a trader submits, their FSD cool down should be at least as long as the pirate's and long enough for some sort of meaningful combat to take place.

3. If an interdictee loses, they should have a less harsh penalty on them - the penalty for losing should be that someone can shoot at you.

4. You have a better chance of avoiding interdiction by buying an anti-interdiction module. (so you get an arms race between pirates and traders. But make the playing field reasonably level so that someone without anti-interdiction still has a chance to avoid someone with a top end interdicter.)

So, reward people for playing the minigame and winning, give both sides the opportunity to equip themselves to win the minigame, and make the punishment for losing the minigame that the prey escapes or the attacker gets a decent chance to attack.

Finally a reasonable post!

Some well thought-out points there.

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No hyperbole just a criticism of whining pirates who want things too easy against fairly defenceless haulers. Perhaps the Pirate OP should learn to stay close enough to the target that he can pretty much mass lock it long enough to take it out, oh yes of course that takes skill not just pew pew.

Perhaps you should realise that it doesn't matter in this case.

The target has such a short cooldown period on his FSD that the pirate won't be able to wither down the shields even with the mass lock taken into account.
Because the mass lock isn't dependant on how close you are, but it is simply within a certain radious (2km) and I doubt that a T6 could stay outside of 2km from a cobra even if the cobra pilot was half-blind and drunk.

You should try intercepting a few targets before making statements like that.

 

[Daffan]

Frontier said that submitting is not correct and they are seeking to change it.

Hello Commanders!

* Submission escape: we are looking into two potential solutions to the ability for ships to submit then charge their frame shift five seconds later.

Both solutions are non-trivial, both have pros and cons. No ETA, but we are working towards fixing this exploit.

 

[Oddball_E8]

So the cd needs to be longer to stop the target from jumping so u can kill it easily making it an autowin for the pirate? Get a wake scanner and interdict again, then try again he still has the dmg u did the first time, if u can get through his shields get a better ship, although most traders run without shields.

The fsd cd is fine, it seems the pirate in question needs to become better and use the other tools at his disposal.

Why would it be an autowin for the pirate?

Oh and how can there only be either/or?

Either it stays this way, in which case it's an auto win for the trader.
Or they fix this (put the cd on standard) and then (for no reason you have explained) you think it's an auto win for the pirate?

Have you ever heard of evasive maneuvering?
Have you ever heard of class A or B shields?
Have you ever heard of shield cells?
Have you ever heard of chaff (You'd be surprised how many pirates run with gimballed weapons)?

No, I bet you don't want any of that because it would take away from your precious maxed out cargo capacity.
Can't put shield cells on, that would remove at least 2 tons of cargo.
Can't put better shields in, that would be expensive and cut into my profits.
Can't put better thrusters in, that would make me heavier and give me shorter jump range.
Can't put chaff in, that would increase my weight.

It's not an auto-win for the pirate if you just learn to do something other than flying in a straight line and you upgrade your ship with some defensive measurments instead of just trying to maximise cargo space.

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I never said I only trade, I also explore and after a while doing either of those I go to Nav beacons with my Clipper/Viper and play with the NPC's and other times at USS and resource sites as well as taking on some npc hunting pirate missions. I just don't like PVP as I have had enough of meeting quite a few ats in other PVP games. Getting too old now to be bothered with them as it is often Elitist Jerks waving their large things about a lot of the time, and it seems to have got a lot uglier in the last 4 years or so.
There was a time when PVP was fun, but whether I am getting too old or they are getting more objectionable I am not sure. One other reason for no longer wanting to do PVP is the fact that as my age now affects the swiftness of my responses, both physically and mentally, I will very much more often than not, lose against players where I do at least have a chance against NPC's. Continually losing isn't really a lot of fun.

Then play solo or in a private group.
Problem solved.

I think there has been as much whining and crying from both sides on this thread. I don't think it fair to claim one side is more of one thing than the other.

Let's see... I've counted one self-proclaimed pirate in this thread so far.

And countless traders.

I'm pretty sure the traders are winning the whine fest.

 

[Daffan]

I'm pretty certain a Dev has called it an exploit. I am totally sure that they said the 'submit, boost, FSD' is not intended to work the way it does. Submitting was introduced so that clean players could avoid damage when interdicted by the authorities. Of that I am sure.

Yes this is correct.

Submitting circumvents the interdiction process they said too easy.

Hello Commanders!

* Submission escape: we are looking into two potential solutions to the ability for ships to submit then charge their frame shift five seconds later.

Both solutions are non-trivial, both have pros and cons. No ETA, but we are working towards fixing this exploit.

Boom there you go

Post by the game developer

 

[Britannkic]

I'm pirating in Yembo, T6's , or the experienced ones at least, know to submit to interdiction and then run, imo all working as intended

Piracy should not be a routine operation, you should have to be skilled and have to work at it.... which I'm not yet

 

[Distance]

Yes this is correct.

Submitting circumvents the interdiction process they said too easy.



Boom there you go

Post by the game developer

Been posted in the tread about 10 times now and even by a mod. People don't bother reading the whole thing and just like to jump in and bash the pirate.

 

[Trinity Star]

Didn't pay 50+m credit per upgrade to my conda's thrusters, powerplant etc for nothing, boost boost and boost some more and gone....

Btw isn't the boost on the T6,T7 their main defensive bonus? I mean they don't exactly have much in the way of weapons to defend themselves.

 

[Rhywden]

I have basically given up on these forums, and I promised myself to not post anything more - but your post kind of made me want to cry a bit.

If you are going to pirate people - then do so to players willing to be pirated and play along. If harmless traders can beat you at your own game, then more power to them. If spamming interdictions and station camping isn't working for you, then learn to do it better. Many people have.

And as for complaining about harmless traders smacking pirates in the face with a wet fish in Open - with just as many pirates complaining about not having enough harmless traders in Open to seal-club - my mind just boggles.

Enjoy the game for what it is. Look forward to it's evolution and forthcoming improvements, just don't get upset when someone else can dictate how you interact with them.

What the hell is this kind of sentiment? "Piracy only on willing partners"?

Seriously?

Reminds me of one Free Ultima Online shard where you had to do roleplay. But actually using the game's mechanics to smack people in the face was frowned upon.

This resulted in people expecting a "stern warning" instead of being smote by lightning for doing something foolish (like, tapdancing on sacred ground while wearing the enemy's colours). And then being flabbergasted when some elves turned out to be not of the tree-hugging variety.

 

[Skuli]

Could there be a codified "Laws of Piracy" system? By submitting you acknowledge you lose and automatically eject 1/4 of your cargo at random, in exchange for 15 second of assured no-fire from the hostile?