It's not that farfetched, They should also make npcs stop attacking you when you say a safe word.
Who wants to be attacked in a video game anyway?
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Getting EXTREMELY frustrated with a certain interdiction exploit
- Thread starter Alexander the Grape
- Start date
It's not that farfetched, They should also make npcs stop attacking you when you say a safe word.
Who wants to be attacked in a video game anyway?
this thread is one 'get at the gamer rather than the game' post after another 
Am I right (I dont know) in saying that the interdiction mini game of chase the escape vector favours the more maneuverable ship? if so that starts with the upper hand typically for the pirate, correct?
Winning the interdiction also puts the pirate in the commanding position with the trader out of control and a normal FSD cooldown, correct? of course losing it reverses that situation but if above is true its more likey the pirate wins the interdiction
In the confrontation the pirate presumably has the upper hand or why on earth are they trying to pirate? pirate ships v's trader, correct?
Submitting to the interdiction puts the trader at an advantage with a shorter FSD cooldown, does the priate lose control? I don't know Ive never lost one or had someone submit as far as i know (will have to try)
I may have that wrong but it seems that submitting is the 'run away' option to me, I think if I had been designing it I may have forced a drop of x% cargo as part of the submission too, but it doesnt feel like its putting the pirate on the wrong side of the mechanics. For me, I would also have FSD cooldown linked to a delta between FSD and FSI - so that a good trader drive will cooldown faster v's a poor FSI and vice versa
Am I right (I dont know) in saying that the interdiction mini game of chase the escape vector favours the more maneuverable ship? if so that starts with the upper hand typically for the pirate, correct?
Winning the interdiction also puts the pirate in the commanding position with the trader out of control and a normal FSD cooldown, correct? of course losing it reverses that situation but if above is true its more likey the pirate wins the interdiction
In the confrontation the pirate presumably has the upper hand or why on earth are they trying to pirate? pirate ships v's trader, correct?
Submitting to the interdiction puts the trader at an advantage with a shorter FSD cooldown, does the priate lose control? I don't know Ive never lost one or had someone submit as far as i know (will have to try)
I may have that wrong but it seems that submitting is the 'run away' option to me, I think if I had been designing it I may have forced a drop of x% cargo as part of the submission too, but it doesnt feel like its putting the pirate on the wrong side of the mechanics. For me, I would also have FSD cooldown linked to a delta between FSD and FSI - so that a good trader drive will cooldown faster v's a poor FSI and vice versa
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Sorry Oddball, I've been doing family stuff. I'm still not on the same page, so you are saying a pirate should be able to drop an interdiction targets shields and then they can escape ? For what? If there should be any arbitrary changes they should relate to the class of FSD a ship is carrying in terms of when they can jump out again, if a ship has a top end drive they should be ready to jump again pretty quickly, but someone who spends the bare minimum on their ship should have to wait for their inferior kit to spool up, as I see it.
@Jordan Cobalt If you read my post again I said radical changes...
These seem a reasonable set of balances, that allows me the choice to run or fight dependant on situation and ship I am in, dont expect to escape without a little damage if i run, and at the same time if i choose to fight then its a real choice, of risk vs reward
I replied to your question about the Anaconda. I see now I misread.
My point still stands anyway.
Cobra: Faster, agile, heavy ordnance load-out.
T6 or bigger (trade vessel): Slower, sluggish, minimal ordnance load-out (or none at all with focus on jump distance, shields and cargo space - a perfectly legit playstyle).
In a straight up fight up, the Cobra will win. Ever tried to dogfight in a T6? Case in point.
The only (sensible) option for a trader is to leg it. So yes, that seems perfectly fair to me.
Instead, you want to decrease the traders chances of survival because you (generally speaking) can't whittle your target down (and hunt them), or be patient and save up slowly to get a better ship?
How I feel about your arguments to nerf the only real shot a trader has at survival against a persistent pirate:
View attachment 15091
If all players were quite honourable and took cargo instead of simply attacking and destroying the player they interdict then the OPs complaint would hold more water.
As that's not the case I suggest the following: if an interdicted player submits they automatically dump 10% of their cargo (we can argue about the percentage later) and no-one can fire on anyone.
As that's not the case I suggest the following: if an interdicted player submits they automatically dump 10% of their cargo (we can argue about the percentage later) and no-one can fire on anyone.
Oh..like the original Elite? I don't remember to many clean runs in that game. Why do traders want easy mode all the time?
'
Yup, happened to me. Shields gone long before FSD was ready. I ducked, I dived; 5% hp he stopped as I'd dropped some cargo (only 10t, better than the 34t he want) and I FSD'd out. I actually feel a little bad he didn't get what he asked for, LOL .
All good pirates go about their work with finesse and care. Their marks are treated well until either they shoot back or try and run. Don't run. Whatever you do, don't run. Just pay the pirate the percentage he asks and be on with it.
Unless you want to make a game of it... but, if you do... be ready to accept losing your ship or being marooned.
Pirate can't pirate? Perhaps you should take up knitting.
Here, let me hold this silver chalice under your chin so I can collect your bittersweet tears and drink them later as an accompaniment to the fine rare Cyrish Caviar I'm hauling.
I've had pirates that can knock my ship into a helpless wreck within a second; no getting away from that. Maybe you should level up your game - you won't hear those guys whining about how the evil merchants are so hard to catch.
Here, let me hold this silver chalice under your chin so I can collect your bittersweet tears and drink them later as an accompaniment to the fine rare Cyrish Caviar I'm hauling.
I've had pirates that can knock my ship into a helpless wreck within a second; no getting away from that. Maybe you should level up your game - you won't hear those guys whining about how the evil merchants are so hard to catch.
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I still cant fathom the ethos of whats being passed off, as debating the mechanics of piracy on these boards. Oh woe is me, my prey simply refuses to roll over and submit. Why dont they enjoy donating their cargo? How dare they!
The reality is far less complicated as most are making out. Trading is hard work, players do it as they want to get ahead and so the grind is lived with in order to realise profit. There is however fun in getting ahead and as such no less fun than pirating. Its just different, a long term player investment (the trading mentality), as opposed to instant gratification in the moment (the pirate mentality).
It may well be due to not wanting to put up with this grind, that many are driven to piracy in the game. Of course some people are just have the requisite number of psychological issues to want to become sociopaths straight out of the box, but its a factor that simply has to be recognised due to the nature of getting ahead of the arc in the game as it stands. As such, there is a certain part of me which empathises that the turn to piracy happens in order to discover some fun in the game, and then the complaints come, when the reality of profitablity sinks in.
So here we are, one group putting up with the grind and classifying temselves as Traders as they can visualise the benefits that will come once the game finds it level.
And another group that refuses to put up with the grind, why would they want to, electing instead to allow others to do that for them, at which point they will happily alleviate them of their hard earned cargo, thus cash, classified as Pirates.
Both groups see the other as having made questionable choices. Of course they would, but this debate is consistently manifesting itself as intent to influence what to do with the game mechanics.
In most cases it seems all about personal agenda and ethos when trying to create this leverage. For me it seems the Traders just want to go aout their business, whilst the pirates want to be able to freeze them in space in order to empty their holds.
There is a happy balance. It has to be made a game of skill with tools and countermeasures or it has to be removed from the game altogether.
If there is an Interdictor, there should be a technique, or a module a trader can fit which counteracts a pirates ability to interdict.
This presents two outcomes. Either the trader is better and they get away, or the pirate is better and they get pulled out of frameshift for an opportunity for the pirate to make a name for themselves.
However, what gets me is the fury of posters over what happens next. Im afraid the pirate doesnt get to dictate the board from here on in, having won an interdiction, you havent won the encounter.
If the trader puts his foot to the floor and jumps out, diddums. Get creative at the outfitters or try to leverage some new tools and modules which would provide further opportunity but does not guarantee a win for you. You have to provide an out for the trader or it just will not be included in the game mechanics, or at least it shouldnt be. Nothing can be put past some of the knee-jerk updates of late and that in itself is a part of the problem.
The whole pirate vs victim encounter needs to be mapped out holistically taking into account perspective of both parties. At this point in time, traders are trying to lobby being left to it, and pirates want to be able to spacerape anyone they want.
With more ships, experience and time, opportunities to trade, along withnew and improved methods of piracy will evolve. Remember if youre a bad farmer, youre a bad pirate. If as a trader I am prevented from running and expected to simply submit to interdictions and the outcome, at the present time far too often as it is, I will be more inclined to play less, And without traders there is no piracy. Go figure.
But please leave the crazy and sometimes banal debate of how to kill fun for the other side out of it for now?
With no communication from FD, these boards are the only place i can come to in order to find out what an earth is going on. Reading about someones will to prevent another player in counteracting your own intent, just tells the forum more about you, than aiding it in developing the game.
Patient, prudence and mindfullness is the games only hope to become something more than it is at the present time. There needs to bemuch more of all of those things included in debates such as this one.
this thread is one 'get at the gamer rather than the game' post after another
Am I right (I dont know) in saying that the interdiction mini game of chase the escape vector favours the more maneuverable ship? if so that starts with the upper hand typically for the pirate, correct?
Winning the interdiction also puts the pirate in the commanding position with the trader out of control and a normal FSD cooldown, correct? of course losing it reverses that situation but if above is true its more likey the pirate wins the interdiction
In the confrontation the pirate presumably has the upper hand or why on earth are they trying to pirate? pirate ships v's trader, correct?
Submitting to the interdiction puts the trader at an advantage with a shorter FSD cooldown, does the priate lose control? I don't know Ive never lost one or had someone submit as far as i know (will have to try)
I may have that wrong but it seems that submitting is the 'run away' option to me, I think if I had been designing it I may have forced a drop of x% cargo as part of the submission too, but it doesnt feel like its putting the pirate on the wrong side of the mechanics. For me, I would also have FSD cooldown linked to a delta between FSD and FSI - so that a good trader drive will cooldown faster v's a poor FSI and vice versa
You also have to remember that by summitting and throttling down as a trader, I take no haul damage and my ship is not out of control for a moment. This gives me more of a fighting chance. I can drop hardpoints and fight, even if it's to survive long enough for help or to charge my frameshift drive.
Submitting is not "run away" option. It's a "fighting changes" option. How a pilot reacts after that is the individuals choice.
You mean make a system where no one will go to?
I will submit to every interdiction in my clipper, but I'm submitting to the interdiction, I am not submitting my cargo. That you will have to take by force, because I will usually turn around and open fire.
I submit only because I don't want hull damage I can't otherwise defend myself against.
The thread remains pointless, as it's kept running by bad pirates who can't drop the shields of a Type 6 in time, something that two class 2 beam lasers can achieve in one second. After that, it's easily 15 more seconds of damaging the ship.
The shields of the Type 6 are really bad. If you can't get through them, you really need to install appropriate weapons for shield maiming or aim better.
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Seems like the op is upset because they couldn't rob somebody, sort of like a mugger complaining his victim ran away and was faster him...my heart bleeds lol
In short, want more money? better ships? Get your own and keep your hands off what is mine.
In short, want more money? better ships? Get your own and keep your hands off what is mine.
You...you amazing individual.
A perfect, succinct summary. Bravo!
The whole point of submitting is to not receive damage, and to have FSD cooldown at a regular rate.
You need a larger ship so that your mass interferes with the FSD.
Other than that, running away is not an exploit. I'll use any means to protect my cargo.
You interdicted me, you want my stuff, I get it. I type slow, so in game chat is not going to happen. If I can jump away, I'm gonna do so.
You need a larger ship so that your mass interferes with the FSD.
Other than that, running away is not an exploit. I'll use any means to protect my cargo.
You interdicted me, you want my stuff, I get it. I type slow, so in game chat is not going to happen. If I can jump away, I'm gonna do so.
This sounds to me like a case of 'if the trade character is good at the game, and knows how to fly his ship, he can get away.'.. As a pirate, I'm fine with this.
OP even said he was able to interdict multiple times, and exact damage. If the target ship pilot had been slower with his reaction, or fit poorly he may well have died. I don't necessarily thing this is unbalanced right now tbh. If a successful interdiction becomes a no brain win for the pirate 100% of the time, it will end trading as a gameplay style. It should be difficult and rewarding to interdict a trader player, and a trader player who is good at flying his ship and has it fit well should be able to evade much of the time -- these ships have no realistic ability to 'fight back' against a armed cobra.
edit: pirate player also has the option of using a more expensive/larger ship and leveraging mass lock mechanics. You are choosing to pirate in a crappier ship because it's cheaper to repair. you should be at a disadvantage due to this decision.
OP even said he was able to interdict multiple times, and exact damage. If the target ship pilot had been slower with his reaction, or fit poorly he may well have died. I don't necessarily thing this is unbalanced right now tbh. If a successful interdiction becomes a no brain win for the pirate 100% of the time, it will end trading as a gameplay style. It should be difficult and rewarding to interdict a trader player, and a trader player who is good at flying his ship and has it fit well should be able to evade much of the time -- these ships have no realistic ability to 'fight back' against a armed cobra.
edit: pirate player also has the option of using a more expensive/larger ship and leveraging mass lock mechanics. You are choosing to pirate in a crappier ship because it's cheaper to repair. you should be at a disadvantage due to this decision.
I like the idea of being able to use the interdictor in normal space to a targets jump. However, this mechanism needs a down side like heat generation or even direct module damage. The bigger the target, the worse the damage. Avoiding interdiction in supercruise would become preferable again.
edit: Such a mechanism could be used in reverse; as in a small ship escaping mass lock quicker.
edit: Such a mechanism could be used in reverse; as in a small ship escaping mass lock quicker.
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