Getting EXTREMELY frustrated with a certain interdiction exploit

[BrewerGeorge]

I'm a trader who hates pirates with the rest, but I can separate my personal interest enough to recognize that this is broken. You can tell that it is broken because it completely obviates the interdiction minigame. That minigame is how traders are supposed to escape unscathed, but nobody uses it because submit-boost-FSD is superior. It is clearly not working as intended.

I agree with the idea that submitting should avoid damage but NOT give reduced cool down. That's the only fix needed.

 

[Fenster]

This is not an exploit, it's how it is supposed to work.
I do this regularly, it's the only chance I have in a T6.(especially one with no guns or shields )
I also hate thieves so your moaning makes me grin ��

But...i play in open so that I can hunt you down after I dock and get my combat ship ��

I prefer combat, but a mans gotta make a living ��

 

[Traven Mayhem]

If you choose to fit no guns and no shield, you should be at a bit of a disadvantage.

They probably need to tweak the FSD cooldown for the submitter to make them be on grid a little longer, so dudes like the above who are greedy and don't fit shields will still bite it, but people who properly fit their ship stand a reasonable chance of getting away.

 

[Hadron-Higgs-Boson]

You also have to remember that by summitting and throttling down as a trader, I take no haul damage and my ship is not out of control for a moment. This gives me more of a fighting chance. I can drop hardpoints and fight, even if it's to survive long enough for help or to charge my frameshift drive.

Submitting is not "run away" option. It's a "fighting changes" option. How a pilot reacts after that is the individuals choice.

fair point, but unless the pirate is not scanning his prey surely he has that eventuallity somewhat covered already, in a fight the odds are going to be with the pirate, else why?

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I'm a trader who hates pirates with the rest, but I can separate my personal interest enough to recognize that this is broken. You can tell that it is broken because it completely obviates the interdiction minigame. That minigame is how traders are supposed to escape unscathed, but nobody uses it because submit-boost-FSD is superior. It is clearly not working as intended.

I agree with the idea that submitting should avoid damage but NOT give reduced cool down. That's the only fix needed.

isn't the outcome of the mini game always going to favour the pirate though, unless the mini game takes no account of the ships abilities to fly and its just a straight up equal footing game, is it?

 

[Genus]

That minigame is how traders are supposed to escape unscathed, but nobody uses it because submit-boost-FSD is superior. It is clearly not working as intended.

I agree with the idea that submitting should avoid damage but NOT give reduced cool down. That's the only fix needed.

This will result in no T9's being employed at all and heres why. When piloting my T9 the interdiction warning comes on. Now the ship I'm in has no hope of competing with anything in terms of manouverability. I dont even think twice at zero'ing the throttle. In a T9, as you say, the "minigame" is redundant for any reason.

Looking at the stats of what happens next, your average cost per 5 interdictions come to about 100k creds.

This is the cost of doing business, and one I'm prepared to carry.

Apply another 20secs of waiting for the FSD to come online however, then that cost increases dramatically. Youre looking at going from 5% hull damage for a bad encounter to 50% which is a loss of around 1.5million creds in repair costs.

Bearing in mind in a T9 you can clear 500k per station run, and I'm currently getting interdicting around 1:4 trips, that represents no profit after fueling and rearming costs.

And thats if youre lucky enough not to lose the ship entirely.

So no more T9's in the game.

 

[ianw]

What the hell is this kind of sentiment? "Piracy only on willing partners"?

Seriously?

Think about it for a minute. People do have to be a willing partner to piracy one way or another - it's a game - it has to be fun for both - if it's one-sided the other side just won't bother playing - in open.

As it stands people can choose on a per incident basis - and all the time people think they can choose - maybe they'll have a go, and maybe sometimes it won't work, result for the pirate. But even if FD change it to the extreme that once you select open there is pretty much no choice but to accept an interdiction and fight it - or give up cargo - or get blown up then people still have a choice to avoid player piracy by going solo or private group (I don't think FD will go that far - though they will change this interdiction submit/run thing).

However you slice it you have to get people to want to play the trader victim for pvp piracy to flourish otherwise pirates will end up with even fewer players to pirate in open so they'll probably give up and go which means bounty hunters won't have any player pirates to hunt.

Player pirates need player traders much more than player traders need player pirates. I'm surprised they don't petition FD for more carrot than stick - it's in their own interest.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

The problem isn't submitting having a shorter cooldown (although 1/4th the length is imo too short), it's the cobra not mass locking the type 6.

An asp can mass lock a type 7, a viper can mass lock a cobra, and I'm pretty sure an eagle can mass lock an adder. It seems dumb that a ship so close to the type 6, has no effect on its escape. I think a good balance would be if a cobra gives 6x mass disruption and a viper gives 3x against a type 6.

 

[Quineloe]

So no more T9's in the game.

All Lakon traders are terribly underpowered right now and it won't surprise me if they go extinct on open at some point.

 

[thewzdoc]

OP....go after NPC's since they are a lot more predictable. The human players do things that you might not expect like submit then start boosting right away and jump back to SC. Even an unarmed T-6 can have an "A" grade distributor and allow them to boost away quickly.

Maybe those traders aren't just going into the station and dropping to Solo or Group....maybe they are just logging off for a few hours to get food, watch a movie, read the forums for rage threads about people not participating in game play they aren't interested in...

 

[Sligs]

The OP is the one reason I don't play in open play and probably never will. If I do, I'll wait until I can afford to re-buy ships lost to pirates or dedicate my time to turning pirates into space dust. What I don't agree with is attacking and hunting clean, innocent traders, especially new players who have probably spent weeks grinding away to get that new ship only to lose it to scum like that. What Asp Explorer means by "if you're going to pirate players then do so to people who are willing to play along" is if you're already good at the game and want to enter PvP combat then great but hounding innocent players is exactly like mugging pensioners. That's why they exploit this escape technique. It's basically a way of saying, "go an pick on someone else who thinks this is fun, because I don't!"

 

[NathanM]

The mini game is supposed to mean something though I'm not sure what, probably just that instant interdiction is no fun - then again the mini game isn't exactly fun either. Come to think of it being robbed by someone with a much better combat capable ship isnt fun (fun is a *fair* fight).... The solution is simple ESCORTS, you can interdict me and tell me to drop my cargo, my paid-merc/friend then blows you into lots of small pieces while I watch and text insults to distract you. Now that sounds like fun, after all we would have another role (escort), the possibility of double-cross etc. Also it's stupid that you can't insure your cargo. Hell you should be allowed to post requests for escorts on the bulletin board

 

[Zhang]

I'm a trader who hates pirates with the rest, but I can separate my personal interest enough to recognize that this is broken. You can tell that it is broken because it completely obviates the interdiction minigame. That minigame is how traders are supposed to escape unscathed, but nobody uses it because submit-boost-FSD is superior. It is clearly not working as intended.

I agree with the idea that submitting should avoid damage but NOT give reduced cool down. That's the only fix needed.

+1 & 8 char.

 

[MaraJade]

This is what happens to pirates when they attack me! Not all of us roll over just because we are flying a brick.

View attachment 15117
"eat space lead pirate!"


This was after running into an anaconda, It was a long battle, way too close for comfort...



Took a screenshot of the boom, but for some reason it didn't take.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

That minigame is how traders are supposed to escape unscathed, but nobody uses it because submit-boost-FSD is superior. It is clearly not working as intended

In addition, that mini-game is next to useless as the escape vector hobbles about like a fly on crack. And even then, if you inevitable lose the mini-game you are penalized heavily with hull damage. You have no choice but to submit.

 

[Dr. Dave Bowman]

I am so tired of hearing pirates whine about this, the amount of times i have chased wanted players down to see them use the exact same tactic, submit then boost away.... seems like if its good enough for them its good enough for the traders to use aswell. Get over it until it changes figure a way how to deal with it. First thing i do is go for shields then the FSD drive to stop them running away a decent set of beams will strip shield in no time at all. I wonder how many of these "pirates" etc. when interdicted by NPC's actually stick round to fight or submit and boost themselves. I would say at least 40-50% of my total in game income has come from bounty hunting both CMDR's and NPC's

 

[popuptoaster]

Explorers (though once we're out into the great black), drop out target the star, start the space horn, get in scooping range and kill power (well inside the 100% heat limit) and then drop to the system view to see whether it's worth scanning the system.

Can't see why anyone would stop engines to scoop, it's so much faster to keep moving rather than have to throttle down and then up again.

You can use the travel time around the star to either get pointed at your next jump destination or unexplored planet.

I think some of you guys are so worried about heat damage you waste lots of time parked on the edge sipping at gasses when you should be diving in and grabbing great dollops all in one go.

This is how I've always refueled, until a couple of posts in this thread I didn't even realise there were people who tried it sitting still!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOgR7Qw15NU&feature=youtu.be

 

[McDosy]

This makes me laugh. good one.

So as long as everything works in your favor it's okay otherwise it's an "exploit"

I fly a T-7 brick. Submitting right away stops haul damage and allows me to escape if I need to.

Try doing trading for a bit and loosing a couple million credits. Bet then you won't think it's an exploit.

No, it's not whose favour it works in, but that you gain the maximum advantage by doing the thing that requires the minimum skill. That's not much of a game. Frontier control ALL the horizontals and verticals here. If they wanted to make holding off interdiction for n seconds stop hull damage and allow you to escape they could do, and that would make it more of a game. The more skilful you were, the more you would escape.

No one has touched on the real problem with pirating.

The pirates risk nothing but what, a few hundred k rebuy at most?

The traders stand to lose multiple millions every single time.

Bounty needs to be replaced with a more permenant outlaw status of some sort that turns the respective stations hostile and invites immediate police aggression and interdiction.

A federation outlaw should only ever feel safe in empire, alliance, or anarchy.

Yes. You shouldn't be able to pay off a bounty imho. That's not how bounties work.

Nope, it's using the mechanic as designed (though FD have stated elsewhere they're looking at the timers), no exploit simply a rational decision, if I'm in a big fat T7 which moves like a slug then my chances to evade are low, it is a simple cost/benefit check to accept, boost as hard as possible while assessing the situation and then decide on whether to jump out or not.

I have to make the assumption that the person yanking me intends to destroy, my actions are dictated by the behaviour of the PvP side who like to get their easy kills for kicks.

We can quibble over terms, but I see a shortcut that negates skill, and I call it an exploit. The fact that Frontier have said its not working as intended seems to confirm that.

even in real world terms submission is a well used tactic, its akin to putting things on your terms. the most aggressive stance in Wing Chun appears totally submissive, watch cats play fight, they lie on their back and offer up their soft belly to entice you in, it is all about making the most out of what you have, puting you on the front foot and minimising risk. Maybe you should try fighting an interdiction in a type 7 or type 9.. hang on, i'll save you the trouble.. unless the opponent is afk you cant, and loosing an interdiction in a type 9, even if you dont end up dead can cost close to 1 milion. so erm, no thats not really my idea of fun or getting into the spirit of doing what a pirate wants.

You can justify the gameplay to work in any way. However, if you look purely at what intent the player is communicating, submitting should be to either fight or surrender. It shouldn't be to run away, as the interdiction mini game is there specifically to handle that.

I know players never want anything that is helping them win removed, but this is fundamentally broken. I know you just want to escape, but what is the point of interdiction if the absolutely best thing to do in every scenario is to not play it?

 

[ZombieF1]

If running once interdicted becomes so difficult, why bother allowing players to even get behind you in SC? Full throttle, evasion and dropping out of SC can avoid it most of the time (and end up with more players chatting with you, as you sometimes end up flying towards them and then slowing down). Given how inept AIs are at chasing fleeing players, it becomes a game of checking the radar for hollow blips.
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Piracy seems bizarre to me, it surely isn't an efficient way to make money. There's nothing to kinda force you into that playstyle like having a bounty you can't pay off - seemingly no logical reason for it to exist that I can see (other than feeling like a pirate). I've considered trying it myself, but dismissed it.

 

[DaveB]

Its simple, someone who likes PVP will want to fight, not run, thus traders are probably not people who like pvp (if they were then they would be pirates). If you nerf the low FSD CD you will simply not find any traders to interdict as if you cant run as a trader then you are doomed as you sure as hell cant fight.

Putting items ingame that allow you to lower/raise the FSD CD is also doomed as by definition rich players will get them and use them against new/poor players, "my ship is better than yours, give me all your cargo" ofc thats going to be awesome fun for everyone *sarcasm*, wake up.

How about the OP exchanges his ship for a Type-6 and allows all the other pirates to blast him to bits and take his cargo for a few days, hey maybe they would do the same?... no wait he wouldnt find it fun to be on the reciving end but is stupid enough to assume everyone else does, fail.

way too overgeneralized and simplistic. I primarily trade. I'm not averse to PVP in the least. I occasionally bounty-hunt too, and if I saw a player with a nice fat bounty on him I'd be in there like a rat up a drainpipe provided the risk/reward decision was remotely favorable exactly the same as I would for a wanted NPC. I'm not the sort of PVP player who picks fights with other players just for the fight, I negotiate with pirates where possible but that doesn't always work out so I do most of my trading in a well-armed Asp, not a Lakon truck with a big "ROB ME!" bumper sticker on it.

Go ahead and double or quadruple the FSD cooldown time when submitting to an interdiction and I won't care. If I decide you're too much of a threat to fight and you show no signs of being willing to negotiate so I need to leave I'll probably succeed in doing so. Maybe I'll take some damage in the process, but it won't be much unless you're good (and I freely admit that some pirates ARE much better pilots than I am)

 

[Zhanny]

The problem isn't submitting having a shorter cooldown (although 1/4th the length is imo too short), it's the cobra not mass locking the type 6.

An asp can mass lock a type 7, a viper can mass lock a cobra, and I'm pretty sure an eagle can mass lock an adder. It seems dumb that a ship so close to the type 6, has no effect on its escape. I think a good balance would be if a cobra gives 6x mass disruption and a viper gives 3x against a type 6.

Get an ASP then cheapskate, but nooooo u want to be on the first row for nothing, pay little on repair and insurance so u won't, whining pirates LOL u guys are pathetic