Getting EXTREMELY frustrated with a certain interdiction exploit

[Hadron-Higgs-Boson]

It shouldn't be to run away, as the interdiction mini game is there specifically to handle that.

I know players never want anything that is helping them win removed, but this is fundamentally broken. I know you just want to escape, but what is the point of interdiction if the absolutely best thing to do in every scenario is to not play it?

The interdiction mini game (when it works) works in favour of the more agile ship, which is going to be the pirate (unless it ignores a ships flight characteristics), so the 'escape' mechanism is stacked in favour of the pirate.

Im not saying the fsd cooldown should not perhaps be adjusted (though I think there are better ways to design this mechainc overall) but you're conclusion is, IMHO, incorrect. There is nothing fundamentally broken, unless you work from the priciple that the pirate should have a game mechanics advantage on top of the inherrent advantages they 'should' have by being a smart pirate.

If the pirate wins the interdiction they then have the confrontation stacked in their favour by all measures, they are in control, they are only attacking a target they have assessed and think they can beat, they have instigated the incident and have any advantage that confers. The trader is now spinning, has taken some damage, typically a cost already in excess of some pirates total rebuy and is now faced with a pirate who is either firing at them or demanding cargo.

I think short of a total redesign of the whole interdiction mechanic the thing should be left as it is or perhaps the cooldown of the FSD adjusted very slightly, though I have seen nothing to suggest this is the right solution at all especially as the interdictino mini game is already stacked in favour of the pirate. FD may say they did not anticipate the submit option being then used as a run away, but that DOES NOT MEAN they are going to change it to make it any more likely a pirate is going to have even more of an advantage

 

[Jack Schmit]

PLEASE Frontier, do something about this ridiculous exploit. And traders who play in open: please don't use it! If you don't want to face pirates, that's fine, just don't trade in the most populated system in the game in Open mode!

I am a trader flying a T6 and I have NEVER used this tactic once. The main reason is, as you stated yourself you can just power up your FSD and follow again (and you'll be angrier than the Hulk trapped inside a bee hive) I fight all interdictions (unless it's security forces) and I win almost all of the time. If your going to interdict me I may not have the might to turn around and crush you, but I sure as hell can inflict some harm by beating you at the interdiction game. Even when I loose I find I have no trouble escaping conflict. I assume anything that interdicts me is going to try to kill me, so I flee.

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The interdiction mini game (when it works) works in favour of the more agile ship, which is going to be the pirate (unless it ignores a ships flight characteristics), so the 'escape' mechanism is stacked in favour of the pirate.

Well I guess the game has NEVER worked right when I played because I win it at least 80% of the time.

 

[mugendo]

As primarily a trader, I'd say you're right.

With the current mechanic, traders are foolish to attempt escaping interdiction. Submitting should give the target some disadvantage.

I trade in open in a T6, and I agree submitting should come with a penalty, not a bonus.

 

[Spiridon]

There are several good points being made here:

Pirates flame on their targets easily escaping them. I can understand the frustration. ED was marketed as "..be a pirate, make a career of it" and young aggressive bloods went boiling. Instead of traders flying en masse and falling to their guns, they have to search long and hard for a target who just use his more powerful engines to boost and escape. Tough career.

Traders/explorers (like me) want to be left alone to fulfill their daily quota or plan or whatever, and are rightly frustrated when someone ruin their entire day's work just for his 90 seconds of pew-pew joy. I don't want to fight right now, been fighting all my gaming career and - for now - I'm sick of it. ED allows me to go about my business, not harming or bothering anyone.

I thought to start this as a thread, but I'll put it here:

This entire debate and confrontation of two sides comes from one fundamental problem the Devs have to solve, and one huge marketing mistake: problem is a generation gap of players. Older guys like me paid for "old school" Elite, where we were the masters of our destiny in the game, not forced to put up with a bunch of other players in totally different dynamics from ours.

And a mistake was titling this game Elite Dangerous. That other word indicates mass meyham (and justifies expectations) of the youth. And they often say: "This game is called Dangerous for a reason!" Well, not quite...

Devs now have it hard. If they submit to the wishes of pew-pew, they will lose the moderate crowd. If not, pew-pews will just go to the "other game" when it goes live. In any case, they will lose the support of one side.

 

[Starocotes]

First of all I think this problem is NOT about PvP. In theory an NPC could be able to use the same tactic and if that is feasible then something is really wrong. I would like to see Sarah chime in on this.

They should try on an internal test build to make all NPC try to submit to an interdiction and then right away power up the FSD and then see how feasable it is to pirat NPCs. If then 9 out of 10 NPC get away there is something really wrong with the mechanic. But Michael Brooks allready said that they are looking into this. But I guess it is not that easy to fix without screwing up other things.

 

[Daffan]

This is not an exploit, it's how it is supposed to work.
I do this regularly, it's the only chance I have in a T6.(especially one with no guns or shields )
I also hate thieves so your moaning makes me grin ��

But...i play in open so that I can hunt you down after I dock and get my combat ship ��

I prefer combat, but a mans gotta make a living ��

You know half of the battle is the interdiction?

Why don't you try and NOT get interdicted in the first place......

I'm pirating in Yembo, T6's , or the experienced ones at least, know to submit to interdiction and then run, imo all working as intended

Piracy should not be a routine operation, you should have to be skilled and have to work at it.... which I'm not yet

This game is set up so it's easy to escape

You can combat log

submit and FSD instantly

Hell, ships in this game have zero way of slowing another ship. I have personally killed over 100+ commanders and knowing the fact i can never be killed. i can just run and they will never catch me to finish me off.

Game is unbalanced both ways.

 

[FS3DPete]

Those kind of statements work both ways.
If you don't like being interdicted by pirates, then maby this is the wrong game for you.

It's called Elite: Dangerous, not Pirates R Us!

 

[Nathan Explosion]

This thread is really funny, considering the OP ran when he interdicted a friend of mine, and I came to clean his clock. Only wanted to fight "1v1". Stick around Yembo, I won't run if you interdict me.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

It's called Elite: Dangerous, not Pirates R Us!

It's called Elite: Dangerous, not Elite: trade safe.

 

[AuGuR]

<snip>

I've no truck with the idea of wanting to run, just exploiting a game mechanic to do the literal opposite of its intention.

This is where your complaint loses it's credibility. Submitting to an interdiction is very much less stressful on the FSD, hence the shorter cooldown time. It is by no means an exploit in any shape or form, even if frustrating to the career pirate.

You may or may not realize this, but the higher class FSD interdicting modules actually decreases the amount of time it takes to complete the interdiction itself. The highest two (A & B), can give you an almost instant completion of the interdiction, thereby nullifying even the quickest submitters. The problem with them is the increased power requirement which is more readily handled by the Cobra, as opposed to the Viper.

Live and learn, I always say... with the emphasis on living ;oP

It's called Elite: Dangerous, not Elite: trade safe.

Wow... should traders just roll over and open their cargo holds for you? Want that I win button because you feel you're entitled to it? Get a clue, part of the Danger is that no matter what you're in, you may fail at the task at hand. Check your safety, I think it's on...

 

[Matt Hawkins]

Yes please. Interdiction submission is an exploit.

No it isn't. It's part of the game. You might not like it but it is certainly not an exploit.

 

[FS3DPete]

It's called Elite: Dangerous, not Elite: trade safe.

Nor is it called Arena Commander.

I want to play my own way, and if that means evading combat against others, that's my business. This game is not all about PvP combat. The original Elite allowed you to reduce the likelihood of combat, as did it's sequels. This one is no different. Players should not be penalised for not wanting to stick around and get shot by griefers who think this is a Pew Pew Die kind of game when it's not.

 

[bigtaff]

Apologies for the flame-war-ey title, but I've grown increasingly annoyed over the past few days and I need to vent. I even created a forum account to post.

So I'm a pirate operating in Yembo. It's a tough, poorly paying career fraught with danger and risk (I suppose that's the price for player interaction and good gameplay...).

However, more and more lately, CMDRs (always in type 6s for some reason) have been SUBMITTING to my interdiction, and then IMMEDIATELY supercruising away, bypassing the usual interdiction FSD cooldown and making them virtually impossible to do more than a few points of hull damage to.

Just now, I interdicted the same commander 3 times. The first time, they submitted, and I told them to cut their engines. They didn't respond, merely charged their FSD. I attacked them in response, but failed to get their shields down.

I immediately followed them to supercruise, and had to follow them for 400LS before I could catch up and interdict again. Once more, they submitted, and once more, they immediately boosted away and charged their FSD. This time, I opened fire immediately, managing to do 10-20% damage before they jumped again.

Once more I followed, once more I interdicted, and yup you guessed it once more they submitted. This was only 20Mm from the station so I didn't even bother with the warning, blasting at their shields immediately. I had just managed to get them down again before they vanished.

I even followed them to the damn station, but was too late, they slid through the docking port just as I got in range. I proceeded to camp outside the station with thrusters off and temp at 27% to hide my wanted status for a good 5-10 mins, but they either retreated back to Solo or logged off for the night.

Needless to say, I am extremely annoyed and tired of the fact that "submitting" to interdiction lets you leave almost as soon as you arrive. I know many of you will say "get gud" or "get a faster/masslocking ship" but I don't want to grind to play at pirate whilst losing money. Ever since my first million credits, I have only pirated. It should be a career not an expensive hobby.

But I digress. My Cobra is nearly the fastest ship with weapons possible (455m/s boost speed) and heavily armed. Should it really be impossible for me to pose any threat to a weaponless mid-tier trader? (whose ship, btw, likely costs far less than my 3mil). All while making more money in one trip than I do in an evening!

PLEASE Frontier, do something about this ridiculous exploit. And traders who play in open: please don't use it! If you don't want to face pirates, that's fine, just don't trade in the most populated system in the game in Open mode!

A bit hypocritical if you ask me,

you are quite happy for a trader to have to grind away at his profession to improve his ship, but you are not prepared to do it yourself. Just remember, that in real life in the 21st century and the 17th centuries, Pirates were normally in much smaller ships than the merchantmen and often never caught the vessels they tried to interdict, normally because they were poor seaman. Maybe what you should do is go out in a sidewinder poorly armed and see if you can take down a type 6 or 7 then, that would be much more fun and showing off your skills. After all off the Horn of Africa currently the pirates are in small open boats (Skiffs), going up against ships a hundred times their size and they don't always manage to get the ship to stop.

As a seaman of 35 years, and someone who has actually sailed around the Horn of Africa in a merchant ship and experienced pirate attacks off of Nigeria and Brazil, I can assure you I have no romantic illusions of pirates and how it is supposed to be an honourable profession. These people are murderers.

So all I say to you is "It's A Game, Suck it up"

Bigtaff

 

[Asp Explorer]

What the hell is this kind of sentiment? "Piracy only on willing partners"?

Seriously?

Seriously yes. Play nice with other people in a mutually appreciative game. Win some, lose some, it's all the same to me.

However, a p2p game like Elite could potentially be disastrous for an annoying player. Swamping is crude and pathetic, but with so many open wifi networks and $60 tablets these days - someone is bound to do it.

As an example - at the moment I've got 13 PC's here and four tablets on three 30/10 cabled and 45/8 connections. There are twelve unsecured wifi networks nearby in the 5/.25 to 100/10 range. USB wifi adapters are $4 each. Someone else could completely ruin several individuals gameplay if they were determined. Completely illegal of course - but since when has that stopped weens from weening?

 

[BlackReign]

Apologies for the flame-war-ey title, but I've grown increasingly annoyed over the past few days and I need to vent. I even created a forum account to post.

So I'm a pirate operating in Yembo. It's a tough, poorly paying career fraught with danger and risk (I suppose that's the price for player interaction and good gameplay...).

However, more and more lately, CMDRs (always in type 6s for some reason) have been SUBMITTING to my interdiction, and then IMMEDIATELY supercruising away, bypassing the usual interdiction FSD cooldown and making them virtually impossible to do more than a few points of hull damage to.

Just now, I interdicted the same commander 3 times. The first time, they submitted, and I told them to cut their engines. They didn't respond, merely charged their FSD. I attacked them in response, but failed to get their shields down.

I immediately followed them to supercruise, and had to follow them for 400LS before I could catch up and interdict again. Once more, they submitted, and once more, they immediately boosted away and charged their FSD. This time, I opened fire immediately, managing to do 10-20% damage before they jumped again.

Once more I followed, once more I interdicted, and yup you guessed it once more they submitted. This was only 20Mm from the station so I didn't even bother with the warning, blasting at their shields immediately. I had just managed to get them down again before they vanished.

I even followed them to the damn station, but was too late, they slid through the docking port just as I got in range. I proceeded to camp outside the station with thrusters off and temp at 27% to hide my wanted status for a good 5-10 mins, but they either retreated back to Solo or logged off for the night.

Needless to say, I am extremely annoyed and tired of the fact that "submitting" to interdiction lets you leave almost as soon as you arrive. I know many of you will say "get gud" or "get a faster/masslocking ship" but I don't want to grind to play at pirate whilst losing money. Ever since my first million credits, I have only pirated. It should be a career not an expensive hobby.

But I digress. My Cobra is nearly the fastest ship with weapons possible (455m/s boost speed) and heavily armed. Should it really be impossible for me to pose any threat to a weaponless mid-tier trader? (whose ship, btw, likely costs far less than my 3mil). All while making more money in one trip than I do in an evening!

PLEASE Frontier, do something about this ridiculous exploit. And traders who play in open: please don't use it! If you don't want to face pirates, that's fine, just don't trade in the most populated system in the game in Open mode!

It's not an exploit. The game was not designed so people could easily interdict and pirate others. The only thing that was exploited was your lack of skill.

 

[Masta Squidge]

I hate pirates. It's no better than the chav down the road who steals a kid's mobile phone or who burgles a pensioner. That trader might have struggled to raise the money for that load of goods and you think you have the right to come and take it away from him because you have a better armed ship? I hunt people like you down and blow you into space dust. And you won't get a warning from me. Am I carrying anything nice? You betcha. A full load of bullets and they're all aimed at YOUR face.

I don't even pirate.

 

[Distance]

It's not an exploit. The game was not designed so people could easily interdict and pirate others. The only thing that was exploited was your lack of skill.

Good to see you read the thread as usual and just jumped in to tear down a pvper.

FD already mentioned it's a bug and it's been posted in the thread a bunch of times now.

 

[Masta Squidge]

It's called Elite: Dangerous, not Elite: trade safe.

Maybe you should get a friend and do it together then, instead of attacking heavily armored trading vessels alone.

 

[Beavis Tingleball]

whenever i am interdicted, I submit....only to kill the pirate..then I'm off again to the next. I'm currently hauling million dollar loads around wailladyan and trocnades. come by and say hi. promise I won't run.

 

[xondk]

Game is unbalanced both ways.

I don't know about that, consider if you make piracy much easier making pirates able to easier get hits in on people they interdict, remember if it is a trader they can quite easily destroy a trader rather easily, and that is part of the problem. If the pirate 'always' gets a certain amount of time to attack or such, they can just repeatedly interdict said trader until destroyed, which would mean that relatively few people could ruin it for many traders, and at least until wings that is just not a good thing for the game.

Does this mean pirating can't be done? nope, I see people happily pirating on twitch, sure they may not earn a lot, but maybe another way around it would be making it easier for them to pirate npc's maybe if pirate's have a 'demand' function or such, where they could demand npc's drop cargo and such, and then the npc might or might not do it? maybe that would be a better solution rather then depending on only pirating players?