Getting EXTREMELY frustrated with a certain interdiction exploit

[Vadirus]

This is a silly debate. The same "exploit" is used by pirates against us bounty hunters trying to interdict them.

Its not an exploit. Its just the way things are. Its another reason for you to upgrade your ship, your weapons, and your internals. I've caught pirates trying to ditch me by submitting, but its only been because I'm faster on the controls and have better equipment than them.

This makes sense to me.

 

[INSULINt]

Honestly, I think the problem isn't that people are submitting to your interdictions and running away, but that they probably don't even know you're a human player and that is pretty much the only way I can see to deal with the shear number of npc interdictions that happen right now. I for one don't even look at my chat anymore, nor even target whoever interdicted me or look on the grid to see what or who it is. I just realign to my target, 4 pips to engines and boost. There is simply an oversaturation of interdictions, and they've become a chore/boring to deal with.

It's called desensitization.

 

[jockmcplop]

This is a silly debate. The same "exploit" is used by pirates against us bounty hunters trying to interdict them.

Its not an exploit. Its just the way things are. Its another reason for you to upgrade your ship, your weapons, and your internals. I've caught pirates trying to ditch me by submitting, but its only been because I'm faster on the controls and have better equipment than them.

This makes sense to me.

Exactly. There's a thread on this very page with a pirate complaining that its too hard to escape interdictions without being scanned.

 

[Alderman Fury]

That sounds an awful lot like me, I interdicted you in my clipper, got 30 tons and left you with low hull, too bad I never combat log. It must have been someone else.

Jordan Cobalt - That name is burned into my memory lol!!

It was you who robbed me m8 - I don't know my hunter contact from adam so maybe he made it up!

Anyway cheers for leaving alive - I was on fire so went down to 2% - got back to station with 10 seconds oxygen
I still run the outbound in open with robotics so maybe see u around ....

 

[MeetYourMaker]

I said the same thing earlier in this thread, pirates just cannot make a living as it is as the traders are QQing too hard. Check out this thread that I created before I relised how much traders want it all their way. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=113903

 

[MaraJade]

I said the same thing earlier in this thread, pirates just cannot make a living as it is as the traders are QQing too hard. Check out this thread that I created before I relised how much traders want it all their way. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=113903

What do you expect with a minium wage job? You need to retrain and get a career in Space Trucking.


Of course on a bit of an Irony note, I just had an interdiction by a pirate (NPC), I throttle down, submit, drop hardpoints, a minutes or so later, he's down to 37% hull and I haven't even used one shield cell. He's in an eagle, I'm in my fully loaded T-7. Then I hear the dreaded...Frameshift drive charging...poof. gone, dam pirates, they always run.

 

[QziQza]

That's not quite the intent I'm talking about......

......I understand if you want to keep things the way they are because it means you always win. Almost everyone does. Personally, I don't trade much and I've never even tried piracy, so I don't really have a horse in this race. All I see is an obviously broken gameplay mechanic that punishes players for trying and failing, and rewards them for not trying at all.

Ah, I see where your coming from.. its not that im opposed to change, but as it stands the 'submit and run' tactic is the only sensible option in my Type 9, its either that or getting killed, and has nothing at all to do with winning, its all about survival and not putting me out of pocket to the sum of 9million credits. winning is a word i rarely use to measure success or value in any game i play, i tend to measure progress in terms of my earning capacity through organisational ability and economical use of my time, all the while loving the simple enjoyment that comes from piloting a ship through this great milky way they have recreated for us.

 

[Darque]

There are many things ED needs to do a little better to make the game what it should be.
One thing they have SURELY mastered is the art of making pirates whine. I for one love to hear the tears of bags who get off on attacking other people. It's sweet music.
It's so cool to see people - who are usually telling "carebears" to stop crying - melt down in public forum because they got schooled.
Please, more of you post more of the same. It's the most fun thing going in ED right now.

 

[Shear]

I have noticed this a while ago and I think it definitely doesn't work as intended, I presume the idea was that submitting will avoid you hull damage, but the cool down will be as long as it is if you didn't submit, otherwise it doesn't make sense at all. On the other hand FD doesn't really promote any sort of PvP in ED so perhaps I am wrong.

 

[Hadron-Higgs-Boson]

Right now, nothing is fundamentally broken, unless you're working from the principal that a game should be about a relative measure of skills, rather than about one team learning a simple trick that works every time and that's the end of the game.

So once the submission is taken, both ships are now in free space in a confrontation, where the pirate should have the upperhand (ship, intent) and the trader has no advantage over the pirate at all other than the same ability to use his ship? right?

I get that the submission means the mini game is avoided, but the trader loses to an equal situation with the pirate - if they were in idenical ships and of equal skills you could say its now a fair fight, correct?

Isn't the result of sbmission to the interdiction just the same as you waiting in free space outside a station no fire zone and trying to pirate? it's you and me, nothing but our ships, skills and intentions, or am I missing something (and I might be I am genunely trying to work through this) is the FSD cooldown now different for pirate and trader, the traders is shorter than the pirates (as far as I know its shorter than normal, has nothing to do with FSD or FSI, but I assumed it was the same for both parties). Even if it is shorter you, the pirate have the same (should be better, you are the pirate in the superior ship) 'boost boost' time to bring guns to bear and hurt the trader. That 'cooldown; if not equal probably does need some fine tuning but IMHO it would have to be variable and based on the delta between ships, else its just another fixed fudge of a game mechanic that will see-saw one way and the other based on whichever dev feels what ever sympathy towards whichever play style on that day.

Interdiction is a mechanic that should give some 'chance' to pull a ship out of SC, thereby rendering SC not a safe place to go and get a coffee - that, I thought, was the intention. It's not supposed to be a mechanic that is designed to stack the odds in favour of the pirate rather its just there to enable the chance of piracy. It does seem as though its the ONLY place piracy occurs though and I think that speaks volumes for how broken piracy actually is

It is obvious that the current design is not meeting everyones requirements, but I don't think its anywhere near as broken as some people are suggesting (and I think there are plenty of broken things in ED)

 

[Sazon]

I'm pretty certain a Dev has called it an exploit. I am totally sure that they said the 'submit, boost, FSD' is not intended to work the way it does. Submitting was introduced so that clean players could avoid damage when interdicted by the authorities. Of that I am sure.

And I am equally sure you are wrong. Without evidence neither of us can justify our claim.

The OP comes across as "I can't inflict my game play on another player because he got away - nerf him until I get my way" For what reason is it justified that a trader should not be able to get away? Maybe they wouldn't have got away if you had better gear/ship and/or were a better pilot.

 

[Sazon]

I love this thread...

Traders going "OMG GREIIIFFEEER YOU DEZERV TO BE SPLOITED" and PvP players trying to be reasonable. Oh wait, that's Elite in a nutshell.

Seriously though he can interdict whoever he wants to in open and shoot whoever he likes. On no occasion should the outcome be guaranteed when engaging a target, at the moment it's pretty much a guaranteed win for the trader if they submit to the interdiction... This is folly.

Right On Commander - your post sums up the thread perfectly.

Those naughty, despicable, cheating, low down, treacherous, lame, exploiting, cowardly traders running from the noble, honest, reliable, friendly, sympathetic pirates. I mean, some of those traders don't even have weapons; some don't even have shields.

Yes, your point is well made!

 

[Distance]

And I am equally sure you are wrong. Without evidence neither of us can justify our claim.

The OP comes across as "I can't inflict my game play on another player because he got away - nerf him until I get my way" For what reason is it justified that a trader should not be able to get away? Maybe they wouldn't have got away if you had better gear/ship and/or were a better pilot.

The evidence has been posted loads in this thread. A mod linked directly to the dev response on one of the first few pages.

 

[Sazon]

My apologies, I did try to read the thread, but it is a very big thread.

But it is odd, here a pirate complains about people getting away while others (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=114673) complain that it is impossible for a trader to get away.

 

[tagos]

There is no way to tell if submitting to an interdiction will lead to piracy or killing. A killing in a fully laden T7 or T9 can cost 1,2 or 3 evenings of play for the trader and that's just if it happens once. The cost for the other side is a trivial ant fine. In those circumstances there is no incentive at all to submit.

So long as that imbalance of consequences exist then mechanics need to be weighted in favour of the trader. If the adjustment they plan disturbs that too much then Open will end up completely empty of traders.

I'm all in favour of piracy. So long as the pirate or killer is willing to wholly embrace that lifestyle. permanent price on head that costs a multi-million credit fine to clear. Progressive loss of safe systems to only anarchy systems are left. Hunted by powerful sector security.

If you're willing to live that lifestyle then go for it.

Otherwise I'm afraid you're just easy-mode players and there's no reason at all the game should be changed in your favour.

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My apologies, I did try to read the thread, but it is a very big thread.

But it is odd, here a pirate complains about people getting away while others (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=114673) complain that it is impossible for a trader to get away.

That's because this thread is full of incompetent pirates and the other with incompetent traders.

 

[Flavourless]

Submitting and escaping is not an exploit. It should always have a chance of success.

Traders have to submit because the mini-game is, and always has been, broken.

IMO, the result of an interdiction attempt should not depend on a random joystick waggle contest where the escape vector is at best unreliable, and the instancing doesn't work anyway.
I would prefer a system that is believeable where chances of an interdiction attempt succeding depend on factors like:
1) Relative mass of ships (light ships have little chance of interrupting the path of heavy ones)
2) Positioning (the worst place to try to intercept is from behind, should be from a position where the velocities can intersect - ie ahead of target)
3) Prediction/avoidance software running on the two ships that modify the FSD to increase/decrease the chances of a drop.

Chances of interception should be very low, but if successful then consequences are high for both parties.
Current system is just silly and involves no skill.

 

[Distance]

My apologies, I did try to read the thread, but it is a very big thread.

But it is odd, here a pirate complains about people getting away while others (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=114673) complain that it is impossible for a trader to get away.

Unfortunately any thread on the forum degenerates in to a pvp for or against thread.

The tone of op's first post didn't help matters but it doesn't negate his point that there's a broken game mechanic that needs to be fixed.

 

[Mohrgan]

And I am equally sure you are wrong. Without evidence neither of us can justify our claim.

The OP comes across as "I can't inflict my game play on another player because he got away - nerf him until I get my way" For what reason is it justified that a trader should not be able to get away? Maybe they wouldn't have got away if you had better gear/ship and/or were a better pilot.

Well, you did it now. You forced me to prove it. Sandro Sammarco Lead Designer- Elite: Dangerous said of the 'Submit, Boost, FSD "...we are working towards fixing this exploit." in response . See his post #211 of the 'Interdiction Dodgers" Thread created on 18/01/2015 by Snakebite.
.
I have a caveat, I'm sure hw didn't mean it as a punishable offense, just that it goes against the design intent.

 

[Trinity Star]

Well, you did it now. You forced me to prove it. Sandro Sammarco Lead Designer- Elite: Dangerous said of the 'Submit, Boost, FSD "...we are working towards fixing this exploit." in response . See his post #211 of the 'Interdiction Dodgers" Thread created on 18/01/2015 by Snakebite.
.
I have a caveat, I'm sure hw didn't mean it as a punishable offense, just that it goes against the design intent.

Why put it in game then, you have the option to throttle down, you have big boosters to compensate for the fact you have no real weapons if this is an 'exploit' they are going to fix then perhaps there's no point in trade ships ever leaving the dock...

 

[Mohrgan]

Why put it in game then, you have the option to throttle down, you have big boosters to compensate for the fact you have no real weapons if this is an 'exploit' they are going to fix then perhaps there's no point in trade ships ever leaving the dock...

Go read his post. It was an untended, and undesirable result of the Interdiction with the Authorities that caused the trouble. They put submission in so you could take no damage when the Cops interdict you, and you're ok with being scanned.