Give us freedom, the same as EvE. Consigne the universe to the players, FD

What many people are missing here is that this game already has an important element that is tailored to player groups:
The background simulation.

Plus for being a true multiplayer game you need things you can do together in groups.

And if you do things together in groups you should get organized together as a group.

And if you are organized as a group, you might get some in-game asset as a group. Some goal to work for. Content.
Be it an own faction. Be it a station. Be it a corporate decal.

Whatever.

You cant have a multiplayer game without multiplayer. And I am happy that Frontier noticed this in Gamma and quite soon after release.
 
Selective quoting....

"Question: Someone asks: Will there be a corporation, guild or clan system in Elite: Dangerous?

DBOBE: Right, there is the sort of friends alliance but at least to start we've not got guilds and clans. I think what we don't want is this, the whole game to become ossified very quickly where the, you know, you have to join one or the other to have any fun gameplay. I do like this it's essentially it's the game of the freedom of the individual the ability to just go out and do your own thing. You know the, guilds can very easily become almost like mafiosi saying don't travel here or we'll kill you. So I think it is some thing that we will look at and are looking at but friends groups which are very much more constrained I think are great, but when it becomes much beyond that it becomes a bit - just doesn't feel right."

From the quote, not only are large social groups a cause for concern, it also touches on territorial control (not in a positive way). Sounds a lot like wings are the fundamental social construct that are in DBOBE's vision for the game.

Well, I'm glad that lack of guilds and clans has prevented the 'mafioso' attitude from cropping up. <sarcasm off>

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lol, I can see some players wanting, trying to run a station, encouraging other players to bring stuff out, crunching numbers, paying NPC salaries, trying to keep it in the black, but then it goes red and they loose their station to NPC civil unrest, its all a matter of fit and fun.

I'd play that game!

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What many people are missing here is that this game already has an important element that is tailored to player groups:
The background simulation.

Plus for being a true multiplayer game you need things you can do together in groups.

And if you do things together in groups you should get organized together as a group.

And if you are organized as a group, you might get some in-game asset as a group. Some goal to work for. Content.
Be it an own faction. Be it a station. Be it a corporate decal.

Whatever.

You cant have a multiplayer game without multiplayer. And I am happy that Frontier noticed this in Gamma and quite soon after release.

My thoughts exactly. +1 for you!
 
Well, I'm glad that lack of guilds and clans has prevented the 'mafioso' attitude from cropping up. <sarcasm off>

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I'd play that game!

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My thoughts exactly. +1 for you!


Thanks. I'd never thought I'd become a multiplayer advocate after what i experienced in LOTRO. Where they went so overboard on the whole multiplayer that you couldn't really play it on your own.

I guess it is a question of the golden middle.
 
The thing is, if players own a station - those players should have to run that station.

That means someone sitting there granting and revoking docking clearances. That means someone sitting there parsing mission requests. That means someone sitting there ordering refuel and resupply and rearm requests. That means someone sitting there moving cargo around. That means someone sitting there mopping the floors. That means someone sitting there pulling troublesome floaters out.

Why would you have to do each docking request? You just make a loop . IF player is enemy > deny if player is friendly > accept. I mean seriously?

Guess you've never played EVE either.

There is thousand of player run stations and probably tens of thousands of player owned star bases. Each have to be refuled, given rights and access and organised. Starbases are like small towers controlled by indiviudla players or small groups and stations are controlled by corporations of 100+ people.
 
Why would you have to do each docking request? You just make a loop . IF player is enemy > deny if player is friendly > accept. I mean seriously?

Guess you've never played EVE either.

There is thousand of player run stations and probably tens of thousands of player owned star bases. Each have to be refuled, given rights and access and organised. Starbases are like small towers controlled by indiviudla players or small groups and stations are controlled by corporations of 100+ people.

Oh - I played Eve. And you haven't comprehended a single thing I've said.

You, Sir, are a

Pew_Pew_Tattoo.jpg
 
Why would you have to do each docking request? You just make a loop . IF player is enemy > deny if player is friendly > accept. I mean seriously?

Guess you've never played EVE either.

There is thousand of player run stations and probably tens of thousands of player owned star bases. Each have to be refuled, given rights and access and organised. Starbases are like small towers controlled by indiviudla players or small groups and stations are controlled by corporations of 100+ people.

And that's to say nothing about the fact that owning a Starbase in -the right system- meant a crazy amount of cash flow for the corporation that runs it.

It could very likely even use a facade of what Eve does. Players decide who gets to do what at the station, manages what goods are legal, assigns price ranges for various commodities by group, and the "background simulator" takes over from there based on user input.

For a station to be successful, it needs to have ready access to fuel, food, maintenance parts, etc. It also needs to have a source of income to pay it's NPC employees as well as the players that own it.

One would have a very, very difficult time "owning the universe" If corporations, groups, whatever the in-game mechanics for large bases of people playing together becomes called, are limited to a small (1-3) stations each. Even If every single human being on the planet played Elite, one still couldn't own but a tiny fraction of the systems that exist in the galaxy. And given the way that Station Economics works, you still couldn't create an effective "Golden Route" for trading either, since you would have to bring in outside money, If not outside goods as well.
 
I am not however put in a EVE like situation where I realistically have to join a guild clan or group to be able to just survive long enough in game and make any progress in what ever path or play style i choose.

Exactly what "progress" are you making in this game?


How would you not be able to survive without a guild. 400 billion systems mean you likely wouldn't even meet most of these guilds. Only 32 player per instance if you could even get a instance full of players. You likely wouldn't even notice unless you sought these guilds out.
 
I really dont get why people think that "player owned station" means an Orbis or Coriolis as opposed to some kind of garage with a bit of a fuel tank, some ammo and a little storage facility.
 
I must be a glutton for punishment, after reading he OP I didn't type my immediate visceral "NO" but instead read the whole ouroboros of a thread before trying to come up with a slightly more reasoned response..

Guilds/corps/clans/player factions... The lack of explicit support for these in the game is as much a matter of lore as it is of intentional design. For the design side, the deliberate omission of this (which is itself a radical decision, given how ingrained into multiplayer games they have become since the first doom clan appeared) is to avoid NOT the social aspects of them but the other long-term consequences, where eventually membership in one of them becomes pretty much mandatory if you're to get much enjoyment out of the game. From the standpoint of the lore, the various factions we see around are all stationers, we're spacers and proud of it. We can work for them, make alliances with them, support of oppose them but we're not part of them. Besides, we're all members of a faction that is arguably the equal of any of the major factions in the game, the pilots federation. Pilots forming allied wings is coming, but even these are envisioned as being more of an ad-hoc thing than a guild-like group, more like forming up into a party in your typical fantasy MMO. That's not to say I don't want to see improvements to the in-game social features such as better chat mechanics, improvements to matchmaking with friends etc. Just for the fear of Cthulhu PLEASE no galaxy-wide open chat.. EVER.

Player control of territory... This has been explicitly designed OUT from the start. It was on the "Won't Happen" list from before the KS campaign. You can't establish a choke point like a jump gate, you can't stop folks just switching modes so you'll never see them and you are all playing in the same universe. You may be swarming the system with your buddies but I can still jump in and eat your strawberries in solo or in a private group with my friends if I want to and that is quite intentional. Recently we have seen an explicit "No" from a senior member of FDs team on these forums when asking about whether this "single universe" setup is ever going to change so effectively controlling territory is dead in the water.

A more dynamic background simulation... On this one I can meet the OP halfway. I'm all in favor of the background economy and political landscape in ED becoming more completely simulated and dynamic. I wouldn't want to see it become player driven, though, I would prefer to remain with something more player influenced - like we have now but with the more complete underlying simulation adding the depth to how our play can impact it. As soon as I see a poster writing something like "I'd take over this station with my corp and do (whatever)..." that falls into the same realm as counting five while holding the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch "Right out."
 
Again, the devil is in the detail.

This thread demonstrates that there are as nearly as many different opinions in this thread as there are people who have contributed.

Suggestion are still just that, suggestions. In the end it's not other users that have to be convinced, it's FD.
 
The biggest differnce between EVE and ED is quit simple i dont need to read 100 of Websites to know how to Trade and Fight and outfit my Ship
and i dont need month to get the skills to even Mine something
 
I must be a glutton for punishment, after reading he OP I didn't type my immediate visceral "NO" but instead read the whole ouroboros of a thread before trying to come up with a slightly more reasoned response..

Guilds/corps/clans/player factions... The lack of explicit support for these in the game is as much a matter of lore as it is of intentional design. For the design side, the deliberate omission of this (which is itself a radical decision, given how ingrained into multiplayer games they have become since the first doom clan appeared) is to avoid NOT the social aspects of them but the other long-term consequences, where eventually membership in one of them becomes pretty much mandatory if you're to get much enjoyment out of the game. From the standpoint of the lore, the various factions we see around are all stationers, we're spacers and proud of it. We can work for them, make alliances with them, support of oppose them but we're not part of them. Besides, we're all members of a faction that is arguably the equal of any of the major factions in the game, the pilots federation. Pilots forming allied wings is coming, but even these are envisioned as being more of an ad-hoc thing than a guild-like group, more like forming up into a party in your typical fantasy MMO. That's not to say I don't want to see improvements to the in-game social features such as better chat mechanics, improvements to matchmaking with friends etc. Just for the fear of Cthulhu PLEASE no galaxy-wide open chat.. EVER.

Player control of territory... This has been explicitly designed OUT from the start. It was on the "Won't Happen" list from before the KS campaign. You can't establish a choke point like a jump gate, you can't stop folks just switching modes so you'll never see them and you are all playing in the same universe. You may be swarming the system with your buddies but I can still jump in and eat your strawberries in solo or in a private group with my friends if I want to and that is quite intentional. Recently we have seen an explicit "No" from a senior member of FDs team on these forums when asking about whether this "single universe" setup is ever going to change so effectively controlling territory is dead in the water.

A more dynamic background simulation... On this one I can meet the OP halfway. I'm all in favor of the background economy and political landscape in ED becoming more completely simulated and dynamic. I wouldn't want to see it become player driven, though, I would prefer to remain with something more player influenced - like we have now but with the more complete underlying simulation adding the depth to how our play can impact it. As soon as I see a poster writing something like "I'd take over this station with my corp and do (whatever)..." that falls into the same realm as counting five while holding the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch "Right out."

I second that! give the players control of the game, They will destroy it every single time. Frontier should always be the master of this universe, in no uncertain terms.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Well, I'm glad that lack of guilds and clans has prevented the 'mafioso' attitude from cropping up. <sarcasm off>

.... and you think that introducing large player groups would improve that?

It will be interesting to see how the game develops when wings are introduced - I would expect that not all single players / group players will be happy with the implementation, however I do expect that wings will be fundamental social construct for a while, at least.

Again, the devil is in the detail.

This thread demonstrates that there are as nearly as many different opinions in this thread as there are people who have contributed.

Suggestion are still just that, suggestions. In the end it's not other users that have to be convinced, it's FD.

More than that it's DBOBE who needs to be convinced - and it would seem that he has already made his mind up.
 
The thing is, if players own a station - those players should have to run that station.

That means someone sitting there granting and revoking docking clearances. That means someone sitting there parsing mission requests. That means someone sitting there ordering refuel and resupply and rearm requests. That means someone sitting there moving cargo around. That means someone sitting there mopping the floors. That means someone sitting there pulling troublesome floaters out.

Nobody would want to do that, so they will say all those jobs are delegated to NPC's so they can get on with the serious business of shooting other players.

So, if a player owned station is run by NPC's - urm, who actually owns it?

Another wind up post. Make it sound feasible then descend back into the ridiculous *Slow handclap*. Oh couldn't help yourself and mention PvP.

What people are suggesting is the running aspect of the station not the automated features (It's the future).

Once again if this ever happened chances are it would (Should) be in uncontrolled space, Anarchy anyone? Also we're talking small outposts not taking over Lave.

I can't believe people are citing Elite lore as the reason for no player content. It was called 1984 technology not lore - you can still be a solo pilot that won't change.

'I don't want players building a station 15,000 light years from me that I'll never visit or interact with, no no...'.

Elite NIMBY's in a galaxy of 400 billion systems!
 
I would like the DEVS to look away from EVE mostly. And maybe look to what Limit Theory and No Mans Sky is trying to do.
We really could use some of Josh´s UI, AI, Grinding ideas here. And the exploration of No Mans Sky.

If the Devs starts going into making a MMO like what eve is, then we would most likely not see anything of the content they are talking about making.

Why even play Elite if Eve is what u really want to play?

If u want more mmo, maybe Star Citizen is what u should be putting ur money into, they did have the cash shop all set up from day 1, selling even ships before the game is out. in true mmo spirit.

And The stuff they wanna do in Star Citizen seems closer to EVE to me.
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Another wind up post. Make it sound feasible then descend back into the ridiculous *Slow handclap*. Oh couldn't help yourself and mention PvP.

What people are suggesting is the running aspect of the station not the automated features (It's the future).

Once again if this ever happened chances are it would (Should) be in uncontrolled space, Anarchy anyone? Also we're talking small outposts not taking over Lave.

I can't believe people are citing Elite lore as the reason for no player content. It was called 1984 technology not lore - you can still be a solo pilot that won't change.

'I don't want players building a station 15,000 light years from me that I'll never visit or interact with, no no...'.

Elite NIMBY's in a galaxy of 400 billion systems!

As there are no drone "anything" in-game for players to control, why would players be allowed to delegate tasks to NPCs?

Delegating tasks for station management would change the focus of the game from moment-to-moment play to executive control - along with (presumably) a continual revenue stream, even when the station's management team of players is offline....
 
Title of the ED website: Epic Multiplayer Space Adventure.

Newsflash: you cant have a multiplayer game without multiplayer mechanics

And multiplayer actually does not mean: i can shoot other players.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Title of the ED website: Epic Multiplayer Space Adventure.

Newsflash: you cant have a multiplayer game without multiplayer mechanics

And multiplayer actually does not mean: i can shoot other players.

Equally, you can have a multi-player game that does not conform to the well trodden path as to how other games have been implemented. Frontier seem to be aiming to avoid some of the tropes associated with multi-player games.
 
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