Glaives (Hunter class ships) are overpowered and...

[Helmut Grokenberger]

To add why I consider it "high reward": I can do four, maybe five EVAC runs per hour; six if I push it. if all the missions I take are e.g. Biotech Conductors (which happens very frequently), it takes me one hour to fill that G5 bin. I haven't had to do any material gathering for a long time, all my G5 mats are trade downs from mission rewards, and with the EVAC missions (5 Biotech Conductors or Exquisite Focus Crystals per mission) or Cyclops missions at CZ stations (6 units per mission) the mats just kept rolling in since I started fighting in the war. It happes frequently that my BC or EFC bins are full and I can't take the mission reward and have to go trade over or down.

I call that high reward.

 

[tolm]

@tolm i have an ax fas too (a fax ) and i would never dare to expect it to be a good allrounder. it just doesnt have the capacity for it. its a great ax ship but dont expect from it more that it can do...
times changed, war got harder, small fish have to find more shallow waters.
ive got a feeling if some cmdrs fought as vigilantnly ingame as on the forums this topic wouldnt have 13 pages
im a noob and i can deal with glaives just fine. cmon man.
end of 6shard condas? good! god forbid you would have to swap one/two of those for mcs. the horrors...

FAX … love it!

Im not expecting it to do everything (didn’t take it into the Maelstrom for example) but it’s been great in the surface CZs. Will be very annoying if I regularly can’t even get it there in one piece!

I think I’m gonna go back to the drawing board for my Cutter, go shieldless with a combination of MC and Mod Plasmas and see how that fairs.

What resistance do Glaives have to human weapons? Wondering if the two C1 Beams will do anything …

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Like changing the rules of the game of chess in the middle of a championship chess match...

The flaw in that comparison is that this isn't a chess championship with a commonly accepted rule book. It's more a back alley fight club where there is only one rule...

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

EDIT: Sorry, DemiserofD . I thought you were replying to me, not to tolm.

Wait, why can't you use the guardian weapons on the glaive? From what I've read, they work just fine, they just get slowly damaged over the course of the fight.

We can.

But, due to the Guardian Degeneration Field, all of them are out of commission between 40 to 60 seconds (1-2% damage/second for all). In that time, the Glaive's agility will make it very difficult for me to line up a shot.

Okay, went back and reread what you said, voice dictating so it's kind of hard to edit, what I meant to suggest is, when your Shard cannons starts becoming damaged, and malfunctioning, you would start repairing one of them then. That way, it would be fully repaired and ready to go again by the time the others are getting more damaged, you start repairing a second one, keep fighting, and then when the third one is completely damaged you repair it. You should be able to keep two of your three Shard cannons functional at all times.

I made, at least, a mistake in that interdiction. I tried repairing my Shards after the degeneration effect started, but ordered the repair of the 3 at the same time (= 3 shutdown and 1 repairing), so all of them were practically unused. Excess confidence that the EN AX MC would be enough...

As for your suggestion, that would seem to be a good idea, but the degen is too fast. And I think it would only allow for a single weapon for a little while. I say this because of the additional work the pilot is doing.

Thanks for your idea !!

I am a little bit confused as to why you are using a single multi cannon, though. They are best at killing hearts, and Shard cannons are also extremely good at killing hearts.

Because of Scouts. I use the Shards for Interceptors, the EN AX MC for Scouts and the LR TV Beams for cooling and destroying the Interceptor's shield.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The flaw in that comparison is that this isn't a chess championship with a commonly accepted rule book. It's more a back alley fight club where there is only one rule...

That would be an awesome chess game though, not unlike how I used to play.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

That would be an awesome chess game though, not unlike how I used to play.

Shhh... we don't talk about the chess fight club.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Shhh... we don't talk about the chess fight club.

Is it like Street Countdown?

 

[tolm]

Because of Scouts. I use the Shards for Interceptors, the EN AX MC for Scouts and the LR TV Beams for cooling and destroying the Interceptor's shield.

That’s the same loadout I use but I’m thinking of switching from FAS to Cutter and running 2x Mod Plasmas (Interceptor Hull) and 3x EAX MCs (hearts / scouts / Glaives) alongside 2 TV beams for cooling.

Will require scanning to target hearts but the Cutter has enough utilities for that and it sounds like “eyeballing” heart shots with shards is a little off right now anyway.

Big question is whether the Imperial Oil Tanker has any hope of staying on target against the Glaives for long enough …

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

I've been seeing differing reports on how much damage Guardian modules take. I wonder if there is something going on where each one has their own field and the effects stack. That would explain why players are able to fairly easily take out solitary ones, but groups become much more challenging.

Well, I have no idea if the effect stacks.

I do know that the Glaives are easier to fight in AX CZs than in Hyper / Interdictions, even if there are more of them in AX CZs, because they get their focus dispersed on to other targets.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

Next time I have the opportunity, I will try to see how well an afmu can out repair the damage field. Unfortunately, it might be a little while, because by the time I get done working 14 hours I usually don't have much energy to log in.

I know that you cannot efficiently outrepair within the Maelstrom system or against an orthrus, but if glaves have a weaker version, it might be possible.

I believe not. Unless the effect of multiple AFMUs can stack on a single module.

And if that is going to become a regular thing, it might be reasonable for the devs to make the process of repairing a bit more streamlined. It has always been a fairly awkward thing to do in the middle of combat.

I am in total agreement with that notion.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

@tolm i have an ax fas too (a fax ) and i would never dare to expect it to be a good allrounder. it just doesnt have the capacity for it. its a great ax ship but dont expect from it more that it can do...
times changed, war got harder, small fish have to find more shallow waters.
ive got a feeling if some cmdrs fought as vigilantnly ingame as on the forums this topic wouldnt have 13 pages

im a noob and i can deal with glaives just fine. cmon man.

In what situations? In AX CZs they are accessible. I already killed 3 in one of those.

We will see. I will update my further experiences, with the Glaives, on this thread.

end of 6shard condas? good! god forbid you would have to swap one/two of those for mcs. the horrors...

Well, I have never used Large ships as AX ships, only Medium.

I also have never used a 6x Mod Shard Anaconda.

My Anaconda is a Long Range Passenger Explorer. So that stab bounces off of me...

 

[Phill P]

I might have an issue with the highlighted part of your text.

Before U15, a fast cold Dolphin/Orca was nearly untouchable in all Evac/Rescue situations, as long as the CMDR knew how to react.

Now, after U15, a fast cold Dolphin/Orca is most probably dead if it gets Hyper / Interdicted by a Glaive, even if the CMDR knows how to react.

I started using a Dolphin for AX Reactivations and swapped it for the Courier when it could not outrun a Glaive. Yes I could high wake out and back in but that's a pain, I wanted something to outrun it and avoid that issue entirely. The Courier is perfect for it.

For rescues most of us use Pythons, Condas and Cutters. To downsize to ships for passengers that can literally outrun Glaives the clearing process would be glacial but if you can evade or shut down the containment missile they can't stop you high waking, so it's an extra element of risk but not an insurmountable one. But what I actually meant was that from the start of the war there has always been a chance of losing your ship. Shortly after the war began I got hit with a shutdown field while coming up on the landing pad to take off, but before the pad gave me control of the ship so I could not use the neutraliser. I was shut down and blown away before I could move. Lost all my passengers and got a ton of fines on top of a rebuy. Rare, and requiring a specific concatenation of circumstances, but possible.

It's also possible to get destroyed by hesitating before boosting away. The phrase "he who hesitates is lost" has never been more true. Hesitation when dropping out of hyperspace or supercruise is a good way to die.

I disagree with this impression, because of what I have experienced myself.

That's entirely fine. You relate your experience, others relate theirs, we all learn. Rescues I can comment on and so far an ECM if you have room or the power for it is handy if you can get it on in time, otherwise silent running and dropping a heat sink seems to work to stop the Glaives sticking to you like glue. There have been very few reports with ourselves or our allies in Ida and Vang of them being a serious problem, only an occasional one. Nasty when they happen but fortunately not a frequent occurrence. Nobody is more relieved than me about this, I can assure you. AX I leave to those who are good at it but a friend was blowing them away with Salvation Plasmas this morning and seemed to be having fun.

I believe they seem more aggressive in situations of Hyper / Interdictions precisely because they only have a single target to focus upon. They seem to loose focus more frequently in AX CZs.

I think this is true yes, it's as if their AI gets messed up by interacting with all the AIs around them, but their hulls seem easier to destroy as well.

That must be me, the Doomsayer !...

Lol, sorry, that probably came across a bit harsher than I meant it, but I do think the risks are a bit overstated given that people are finding ways around it. Besides, it leaves it open for the next bit of tech we get to be something that helps with that. Fdev did say an arms race would be involved so it doesn't surprise me to see the Goids have the edge for a while before we all find the best ways to evade and/or kill their new toys.

Meanwhile, boost and chill.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

Nah, I am just an idiot incapable of counting and multiplying properly (I'll edit my post for future clarity). The true figures are: With good RNG, I can get six evac missions done, with five mats per mission that's 30, not 50. Four are pretty much guaranteed, that would be twenty. But I stand by my point: I still consider it high reward.

Understood.

And they are, but the missions prior to U15 were average danger, not low danger. CMDRs had to know what to do.

Not trying to attack you, sorry if it came across like that. Just saying: This is a new enemy, and we need to give us some tme to find strategies, weak points and working countermeasures before calling "no fair!" and demanding for nerfing them.

Point taken.

I wasn't around yet at that time, but I imagine when Thargoids first became attackable and the cold orbit meta wasn't around yet, Frontier had nerfed them at the first "too hard" reaction.

Actually, it was the exact opposite.

When they came out, the "EX-Machina Shield" that decreases Human weapons damage to 77% (Scouts) and 99% (Interceptors) wasn't in-game. Human weapons affected them with full damage. A wing of 4 Large ships with +6 Plasma Accelerators / Frag Cannons / etc... with a simultaneous coordinated attack, would destroy Cyclops in seconds !!

FDev wasn't expecting that and promptly came out with the Magical "They have evolved to resist Human Weapons" >>> A panic reaction that introduced a stupid gamey EX-Machina nerf to all Human weapons.

Another one of the multiple suspension-of-disbelief stupid decisions that FDev made...

 

[tolm]

Understood.

And they are, but the missions prior to U15 were average danger, not low danger. CMDRs had to know what to do.


Point taken.



Actually, it was the exact opposite.

When they came out, the "EX-Machina Shield" that decreases Human weapons damage to 77% (Scouts) and 99% (Interceptors) wasn't in-game. Human weapons affected them with full damage. A wing of 4 Large ships with +6 Plasma Accelerators / Frag Cannons / etc... with a simultaneous coordinated attack, would destroy Cyclops in seconds !!

FDev wasn't expecting that and promptly came out with the Magical "They have evolved to resist Human Weapons" >>> A panic reaction that introduced a stupid gamey EX-Machina nerf to all Human weapons.

Another one of the multiple suspension-of-disbelief stupid decisions that FDev made...

And that likely informed FDevs decision to introduce the “magical guardian module destruction field” … they had some shiny new Thargoids to add to the game but were worried they’d get killed too easily because of the Guardian weapons …

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

I started using a Dolphin for AX Reactivations and swapped it for the Courier when it could not outrun a Glaive. Yes I could high wake out and back in but that's a pain, I wanted something to outrun it and avoid that issue entirely. The Courier is perfect for it.

For rescues most of us use Pythons, Condas and Cutters. To downsize to ships for passengers that can literally outrun Glaives the clearing process would be glacial but if you can evade or shut down the containment missile they can't stop you high waking, so it's an extra element of risk but not an insurmountable one. But what I actually meant was that from the start of the war there has always been a chance of losing your ship. Shortly after the war began I got hit with a shutdown field while coming up on the landing pad to take off, but before the pad gave me control of the ship so I could not use the neutraliser. I was shut down and blown away before I could move. Lost all my passengers and got a ton of fines on top of a rebuy. Rare, and requiring a specific concatenation of circumstances, but possible.

That was really bad luck !!!

It's also possible to get destroyed by hesitating before boosting away. The phrase "he who hesitates is lost" has never been more true. Hesitation when dropping out of hyperspace or supercruise is a good way to die.

Tell me about it !! I most likely made that mistake Sunday, but got out alive.

That's entirely fine. You relate your experience, others relate theirs, we all learn. Rescues I can comment on and so far an ECM if you have room or the power for it is handy if you can get it on in time, otherwise silent running and dropping a heat sink seems to work to stop the Glaives sticking to you like glue. There have been very few reports with ourselves or our allies in Ida and Vang of them being a serious problem, only an occasional one. Nasty when they happen but fortunately not a frequent occurrence. Nobody is more relieved than me about this, I can assure you. AX I leave to those who are good at it but a friend was blowing them away with Salvation Plasmas this morning and seemed to be having fun.

As someone else as implied clearly, I really need to do more tests and less posts...

I think this is true yes, it's as if their AI gets messed up by interacting with all the AIs around them, but their hulls seem easier to destroy as well.

Probably because they are not zapping us to regain shields all the time...

Lol, sorry, that probably came across a bit harsher than I meant it, but I do think the risks are a bit overstated given that people are finding ways around it. Besides, it leaves it open for the next bit of tech we get to be something that helps with that. Fdev did say an arms race would be involved so it doesn't surprise me to see the Goids have the edge for a while before we all find the best ways to evade and/or kill their new toys.

I remember that reference to the "Arms Race" and I do understand. I will pay attention to what new methods the next weeks brings.

Meanwhile, boost and chill.

View attachment 356694

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

To add why I consider it "high reward": I can do four, maybe five EVAC runs per hour; six if I push it. if all the missions I take are e.g. Biotech Conductors (which happens very frequently), it takes me one hour to fill that G5 bin. I haven't had to do any material gathering for a long time, all my G5 mats are trade downs from mission rewards, and with the EVAC missions (5 Biotech Conductors or Exquisite Focus Crystals per mission) or Cyclops missions at CZ stations (6 units per mission) the mats just kept rolling in since I started fighting in the war. It happes frequently that my BC or EFC bins are full and I can't take the mission reward and have to go trade over or down.

You can always stack up the millions instead...

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

What resistance do Glaives have to human weapons? Wondering if the two C1 Beams will do anything …

Probably something between 77% (Scouts) and 99% (Interceptors). I would guess 88% for symmetry...

 

[Phill P]

As someone else as implied clearly, I really need to do more tests and less posts...

Not at all. The last thing we want is to fall into groupthink so the more varied experiences people can relate the better.

Probably because they are not zapping us to regain shields all the time...

You think recharging their shields also regenerates their hull, or perhaps lets them regenerate faster? Interesting. Their hulls are certainly harder to take down when they are on their own in space, so that could be part of it.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

That’s the same loadout I use but I’m thinking of switching from FAS to Cutter and running 2x Mod Plasmas (Interceptor Hull) and 3x EAX MCs (hearts / scouts / Glaives) alongside 2 TV beams for cooling.

All good in regards to firepower.

Will require scanning to target hearts but the Cutter has enough utilities for that and it sounds like “eyeballing” heart shots with shards is a little off right now anyway.

Yes. They still have a sort of white particle effects around them, but are difficult to see. This harms fixed weapons use without the Xeno Scanner.

Big question is whether the Imperial Oil Tanker has any hope of staying on target against the Glaives for long enough …

If you use turrets for your EN AX MCs, I guess you won't need to turn much.

 

[Phill P]

You can always stack up the millions instead...

You still can, taking a mission for 11 million without mats or 9 million with mats is still extremely profitable for something you are already doing.