Glorious HIPs - 3306

MattG · Nov 25, 2020

varonica said:
Hi MattG, did you check g Carinae for variations on the name? For instance G Carinae is not the same as g Carinae and this may be where EDSM has problems, it may be that one system, the actual Elite Galaxy, is differentiating for upper/lowercase and EDSM not and that's where EDSM gets confused.

This is indeed the case.

Name	ID64	NumBodies	HIP
g Carinae	677396751809	3	45496
G Carinae	319798872435	12	44599

These were not the only dupes, FWIW - I highlighted 3 of them I think some pages back.

It poses 2 problems though. First, searching for the name in EDSM regardless of case brings up the same system (though it does highlight it's a duped name and links to other). It is possible to use the EDSM API to search by ID64. I don't know how the magical script pulls data from EDSM and populates the spreadsheet - but if it's using the API to do so, perhaps it would also be worth having an ID64 override column in the spreadsheet to ensure the correct one is pulled? The other problem is... EDSMs data, even when using ID64, is wrong (hence my own script flagging it)

. I will see about contacting Anthor to fix this - I'm just not 100% sure how to explain which bodies belong where without using their names...

varonica · Nov 25, 2020

MattG said:
This is indeed the case.
These were not the only dupes, FWIW - I highlighted 3 of them I think some pages back.

I have also hit a few dupes doing the last two regions, I believe FDEV tries to remove dupe names when notified, maybe a bug report about dupe names will get some traction to fix them in the galaxy map, although whether EDSM can fix their end up is another question.

Iron Body · Nov 25, 2020

MattG said:
This is indeed the case.

Name ID64 NumBodies HIP
g Carinae
677396751809
3
45496
G Carinae
319798872435
12
44599

These were not the only dupes, FWIW - I highlighted 3 of them I think some pages back.

It poses 2 problems though. First, searching for the name in EDSM regardless of case brings up the same system (though it does highlight it's a duped name and links to other). It is possible to use the EDSM API to search by ID64. I don't know how the magical script pulls data from EDSM and populates the spreadsheet - but if it's using the API to do so, perhaps it would also be worth having an ID64 override column in the spreadsheet to ensure the correct one is pulled? The other problem is... EDSMs data, even when using ID64, is wrong (hence my own script flagging it) . I will see about contacting Anthor to fix this - I'm just not 100% sure how to explain which bodies belong where without using their names...

My script uses systems.csv from EDDB to update the spreadsheet. (It's more convenient to parse out than the json script from EDSM).
{I also have EDDiscovery as well, but never figured out the sql to query it.)

Both G Carinae and g Carinae are present in the csv file and relate to the correct stars in the game. So no real need to identify them with an ID.
These names are not really duplicated, they just have different cases. Unfortunately the GALMAP only allows uppercase, which wont immediately find the lower case versions unless you scroll through the matches.

This is the data for the g Carinae stars in the EDDB API:
id,edsm_id,name,x,y,z,population,is_populated,government_id,government,allegiance_id,allegiance,security_id,security,primary_economy_id,primary_economy,power,power_state,power_state_id,needs_permit,updated_at,simbad_ref,controlling_minor_faction_id,controlling_minor_faction,reserve_type_id,reserve_type,ed_system_address
8902073,11712635,"g Carinae",481.625,-50.25,62.5625,0,0,176,None,5,None,64,Anarchy,10,None,,,,0,1605809341,,,,,,677396751809
34941550,,"G Carinae",364.625,-116.4375,118.40625,0,0,176,None,5,None,64,Anarchy,10,None,,,,0,1605808872,,,,,,319798872435

However, the name matching in the (magical !) script is also currently case insensitive.
So HIP 44599 currently has an ED name of "g Carinae" in the spreadsheet - which is the wrong one !
And HIP 45496 has a blank ED name.

It is not a problem to change the magic script to be case insensitive, but it will mean that star names entered in the spreadsheet will have to have exactly the correct case.
Which is not always easy .

I will correct these 2 entries and change the script to be case insensitive. Won't take long.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As an aside, it would be REALLY useful if EDSM/EDDB could capture the alternate star names shown in the GALMAP.
I don't think this info is written to the journal file, so it would be up to FD to change the log file.

Iron Body · Nov 26, 2020

MattG said:
Results for slice 38. (Real, this time).

Name lookups and other data are in the worksheet here

This data should be in the main spreadsheet when I next update it (make take a couple of days).

Iron Body · Nov 28, 2020

Iron Body said:
This data should be in the main spreadsheet when I next update it (make take a couple of days).

I have updated the spreadsheet.

The update process now includes copies of all the lists of Named and "not found" stars that I could find in this thread, especially MattG's.
For some reason (probably my previous attempt) there were many systems with coordinates, but not ED names. This has been corrected.

Altogether about 700 new entries !.

varonica · Nov 29, 2020

Iron Body said:
I have updated the spreadsheet.

The update process now includes copies of all the lists of Named and "not found" stars that I could find in this thread, especially MattG's.
For some reason (probably my previous attempt) there were many systems with coordinates, but not ED names. This has been corrected.

Altogether about 700 new entries !.

I have been posting my results in a spreadsheet with a link, not directly to the thread, do you need my "not found" data to be posted directly here?

Iron Body · Nov 29, 2020

varonica said:
I have been posting my results in a spreadsheet with a link, not directly to the thread, do you need my "not found" data to be posted directly here?

I'll check it out. It would be helpful if you could repeat the link.

Getedoi · Dec 2, 2020

Slice 33 is finally finished! (along with the carrier-only systems from slice 32)
Results are as follows
- 64 Systems are not in-game. Below is a list, should you need it.

HIP 38396

HIP 37746

HIP 57655

HIP 36118

HIP 40156

HIP 16878

HIP 39144

HIP 38944

HIP 29483

HIP 43765

HIP 48167

HIP 38063

HIP 29861

HIP 36482

HIP 37875

HIP 36706

HIP 58046

HIP 39020

HIP 61834

HIP 44859

HIP 38548

HIP 36619

HIP 38990

HIP 34964

HIP 38943

HIP 38545

HIP 20500

HIP 36164

HIP 29528

HIP 38085

HIP 60375

HIP 37641

HIP 52719

HIP 44113

HIP 38721

HIP 36594

HIP 62033

HIP 38854

HIP 38467

HIP 38540

HIP 38015

HIP 48010

HIP 33543

HIP 52985

HIP 39269

HIP 39086

HIP 51428

HIP 38446

HIP 37527

HIP 38999

HIP 42643

HIP 50748

HIP 56861

HIP 40370

HIP 38798

HIP 41074

HIP 32675

HIP 37791

HIP 38244

HIP 39202

HIP 31097

HIP 42933

HIP 30940

HD 18623

- 40 Systems are unreachable, even by carrier. Also listed below.

HD 8360	410.5313	-3133.53	-200.281
HD 17830	1270	-2620	-570
HD 71312	12300	2700	-6540
HD 32277		-7200
HIP 23981		-6500
HD 83971		5000
HIP 52013		5300
HD 15098		-4600
HD 31025		-6900
HD 72245		4000
HD 84516		5300
HIP 29202		-2500
HD 36702		-3700
HD 20611		-3500
HD 12275		-9500
HIP 50354		3200
HD 45406		-2000
HD 89026		2600
HD 82782		5200
HIP 49818		6700
HD 27254		-3000
HIP 59567		3000
HD 26853		-5500
HIP 57651		6400
HD 16961		-4700
HD 21503		-3400
HD 81465		2100
HD 26073		-3100
HD 55838		-3200
HD 32400		-2500
HD 23011		-4800
HD 45481		-5600
HD 55347		-2000
HD 94179		8450
HD 91637		2400
HD 16540		-4270
HD 21705		-3100
HD 49003		-5400
HD 31449		-2900

HD 101303	891.6875	3061.094	-512.938
HD 30500	2908.719	-2778.09	-1653.5
hd 78014	4800	2680	-3000
hd 34897	5510	-4172	-3540
hd 26852	2840	-3400	-1610
hd 83685	11000	9500	-7100
hd 89775	9400	9000	-5500
hd 81344	5490	3800	-3270
hd 26282	9400	-11000	-5800
hd 27067	3410	-4200	-2360
HIP 52224	3340	5000	-1800
hd 22285	2420	-4000	-1670
hd 51255	16000	-3600	-10000
HIP 53585	2480	4700	-1420
hd 27454	6700	-7700	-3700
hd 80083	3220	2000	-1910
hd 25840	3400	-4500	-2330
HIP 56541	1100	3300	-560
hd 48224	16100	-5000	-9300
hd 84971	5380	4700	-3050
hd 50647	13970	-3067	-9500
HD 87740	2030	2400	-1300
HD 91622	2660	4127	-1660
HD 12237	-2800	-11000	-1700
HD 14589	870	-2600	-500
HD 91960	3910	6400	-2560
HIP 51423	2040	3100	-1320
HIP 59160	1270	8000	-800
HD 93138	2180	3500	-1220
HD 49488	10440	-2800	-6360
HD 30593	3540	-3400	-2140
rt caeli	2310	-2500	-1290
HIP 30787	10410	-4000	-5750
HD 68837	17080	3500	-10580
HD 28836	4350	-4700	-2680
HD 46812	13780	-4500	-9200
hd 76274	5400	2800	-3640
HD 93902	2000	3660	-1220
HD 49575	12140	-3100	-7940
HD 37812	4940	-3120	-2900
HD 16724	2140	-5400	-1300
HD 88666	2100	2470	-1200
HIP 23720	3200	-2700	-2180
HIP 14846	1900	-3800	-1330
HD 81166	7000	4800	-4300
HD 88194	1900	2300	-1240
HD 93178	1640	2900	-1030
HD 33739	4300	-3500	-2950
HD 77151	4130	1900	-2310
HD 43865	11350	-4800	-7000
HD 85904	3250	3200	-1950
HD 95164	1140	2300	-700
HD 85220	3230	2900	-1860
HD 85917	5770	5400	-3300
HD 88866	2140	2390	-1130
HIP 54516	5440	9000	-3400
HIP 51522	2160	3100	-1300
HIP 32457	10030	-2800	-6140

- System HD 42136 is permit locked.

Overall better availability ratio that the previous slice, with 100 or so extra systems. And now for the anomalies:

3 Systems (HIP 9034, HIP 10152, HIP 5284) point to multiple entries. Likely cause is they're not actually in game but point to multiples due to the game's search algorithm.
HD 50123 points to blank space and warrants further investigation.
HIP 58831, also known as HD 104785, is a system I had initially dismissed as unreachable but it looks like a fellow CMDR somehow got to it. It's weird, because the closest system is 800ly away, appears to be the only route in, and it's still undiscovered ( that system is also on this list). I'm open to theories on how CMDR endlessfalls managed this feat and how can we possibly replicate it. Note that "You're not being thorough enough" has already been submitted as a possible theory.
System HD 69999 from slice 32 has been downgraded to "Unreachable" due to the carrier throwing a no-slots error upon marking it.
"Most underwhelming system" award for this slice goes to... drumroll...HD 68026. An annoying 7000ly away from all other HIPs and 180ly from the nearest system ( thereby requiring a crapton of burnt tritium to get to it ), it contained nothing but a B star and a far away A star.

Some more shots from slice 33:

HD 56621, a 300 Solar radius K giant, from the drop-in, 1500ls away.

The close binary at HD 69561 (orbit 6ls, radius 4ls)

Now, if it's all the same to you CMDRs, I'd like to change the routine and instead of the next consecutive slice pick Slice 43 (and on that note @Iron Body should I create a new slice asignment sheet, since we cannot edit Jackie's?).

Also, question regarding systems with approximate coordinates: For unreachable systems is it still acceptable to put in the approximate/partial coordinates in the sheet?

Iron Body · Dec 2, 2020

Yes, I think a new assignment sheet is a good idea. I have been looking at sheet 2 of Jackie's SS to see which slices are free. So I've put you down for 43 in there as well, for now.

I would like to put approximate coords in the SS as well, Jackie suggested the notes column because the "approx ED coordinate" columns are supposedly calculated from the original catalogue positions. But I'm not sure atm whether the notes column is editable. I'll check again.

Strange you should mention Cmdr endlessfalls, that name also showed up on one of my "unreachable" stars. HD 666, I couldn't get within FC range of it.

Getedoi · Dec 2, 2020

I would like to put approximate coords in the SS as well, Jackie suggested the notes column because the "approx ED coordinate" columns are supposedly calculated from the original catalogue positions. But I'm not sure atm whether the notes column is editable. I'll check again.

Same here, haven't touched the Apx cells due to them being formulas. The only remaining option would indeed be the notes, but that seems so...pedestrian

Strange you should mention Cmdr endlessfalls, that name also showed up on one of my "unreachable" stars. HD 666, I couldn't get within FC range of it.

I encountered him/her over a lot of HIP systems, but none of them was synced with EDSM. This one was just plain odd, and I can't for the life of me figure how they got there. I remember reports of CMDRs being stranded in locked systems during the betas, but nothing like this.

Iron Body · Dec 2, 2020

Just checked the notes column. It is editable, but my update script creates a block of data which I paste into the sheet.
This previously included column Y which is read-only. I can get around this by creating a separate paste block for notes.

If you have the approximate coords for the unreachable stars, it might be easiest to list them again here, with the coords. My script can then append them to any notes already there.

Getedoi · Dec 2, 2020

Awesome! I'll edit them later along with the entries from slice 32.

JonathanBurnage · Dec 2, 2020

I think I can help you out here. I had been doing some complimentary work with Jackie, plotting out the locations of the high- and low-lying stars and trying to find routes. I ended up producing a little script that took Jackie's spreadsheet, merged it with mine, and plotted stars that were within 500LY of each other. It was then possible to see the routes to some of the previously unreachable places.

The only snag is that I wrote it in Matlab (the only language with which I have any experience) using a trial licence, which has since expired. I am happy to provide the code and data to anyone who wants to work with it, either using Matlab or translating it into another language.

I'm currently doing a passenger tour of the core, but when I get back I'll join in the fun again!

Iron Body · Dec 2, 2020

JonathanBurnage said:
I think I can help you out here. I had been doing some complimentary work with Jackie, plotting out the locations of the high- and low-lying stars and trying to find routes. I ended up producing a little script that took Jackie's spreadsheet, merged it with mine, and plotted stars that were within 500LY of each other. It was then possible to see the routes to some of the previously unreachable places.

The only snag is that I wrote it in Matlab (the only language with which I have any experience) using a trial licence, which has since expired. I am happy to provide the code and data to anyone who wants to work with it, either using Matlab or translating it into another language.

I'm currently doing a passenger tour of the core, but when I get back I'll join in the fun again!

Sounds intriguing, but I don't know Matlab. But what form is your data in, and where did it come from ?

My biggest problem with working out routes in very low density areas is that not all stars are in EDSM, and the galmap is a pain in those areas.

varonica · Dec 3, 2020

Getedoi said:
Same here, haven't touched the Apx cells due to them being formulas. The only remaining option would indeed be the notes, but that seems so...pedestrian

I encountered him/her over a lot of HIP systems, but none of them was synced with EDSM. This one was just plain odd, and I can't for the life of me figure how they got there. I remember reports of CMDRs being stranded in locked systems during the betas, but nothing like this.

Bumped into Endlessfalls quite a bit, usually at the edges near the bubble, also Vogolos, as you say none synced to EDSM. I don't think I have come across any systems tagged by those two that are out of reach of an extreme jump range Conda though.

varonica · Dec 3, 2020

Iron Body said:
Sounds intriguing, but I don't know Matlab. But what form is your data in, and where did it come from ?

My biggest problem with working out routes in very low density areas is that not all stars are in EDSM, and the galmap is a pain in those areas.

Yeah, we should have a line indicator for FC's like we do for regular route plotting but that can be set to only appear over a certain distance, so say I could set it to 133ly which is the max range of my Phantom with Premium Jumponium. Slowly scanning around looking for individual stars in that black is a pain.

varonica · Dec 3, 2020

Getedoi said:
Slice 33 is finally finished! (along with the carrier-only systems from slice 32)
Results are as follows
- 64 Systems are not in-game. Below is a list, should you need it.

HIP 38396
HIP 37746
HIP 57655
HIP 36118
HIP 40156
HIP 16878
HIP 39144
HIP 38944
HIP 29483
HIP 43765
HIP 48167
HIP 38063
HIP 29861
HIP 36482
HIP 37875
HIP 36706
HIP 58046
HIP 39020
HIP 61834
HIP 44859
HIP 38548
HIP 36619
HIP 38990
HIP 34964
HIP 38943
HIP 38545
HIP 20500
HIP 36164
HIP 29528
HIP 38085
HIP 60375
HIP 37641
HIP 52719
HIP 44113
HIP 38721
HIP 36594
HIP 62033
HIP 38854
HIP 38467
HIP 38540
HIP 38015
HIP 48010
HIP 33543
HIP 52985
HIP 39269
HIP 39086
HIP 51428
HIP 38446
HIP 37527
HIP 38999
HIP 42643
HIP 50748
HIP 56861
HIP 40370
HIP 38798
HIP 41074
HIP 32675
HIP 37791
HIP 38244
HIP 39202
HIP 31097
HIP 42933
HIP 30940
HD 18623

- 40 Systems are unreachable, even by carrier. Also listed below.

HD 8360
HD 17830
HD 71312
HD 32277
HIP 23981
HD 83971
HIP 52013
HD 15098
HD 31025
HD 72245
HD 84516
HIP 29202
HD 36702
HD 20611
HD 12275
HIP 50354
HD 45406
HD 89026
HD 82782
HIP 49818
HD 27254
HIP 59567
HD 26853
HIP 57651
HD 16961
HD 21503
HD 81465
HD 26073
HD 55838
HD 32400
HD 23011
HD 45481
HD 55347
HD 94179
HD 91637
HD 16540
HD 21705
HD 49003
HD 31449

- System HD 42136 is permit locked.

Overall better availability ratio that the previous slice, with 100 or so extra systems. And now for the anomalies:

3 Systems (HIP 9034, HIP 10152, HIP 5284) point to multiple entries. Likely cause is they're not actually in game but point to multiples due to the game's search algorithm.

HD 50123 points to blank space and warrants further investigation.

HIP 58831, also known as HD 104785, is a system I had initially dismissed as unreachable but it looks like a fellow CMDR somehow got to it. It's weird, because the closest system is 800ly away, appears to be the only route in, and it's still undiscovered ( that system is also on this list). I'm open to theories on how CMDR endlessfalls managed this feat and how can we possibly replicate it. Note that "You're not being thorough enough" has already been submitted as a possible theory.

System HD 69999 from slice 32 has been downgraded to "Unreachable" due to the carrier throwing a no-slots error upon marking it.

"Most underwhelming system" award for this slice goes to... drumroll...HD 68026. An annoying 7000ly away from all other HIPs and 180ly from the nearest system ( thereby requiring a crapton of burnt tritium to get to it ), it contained nothing but a B star and a far away A star.

Some more shots from slice 33:

HD 56621, a 300 Solar radius K giant, from the drop-in, 1500ls away.
View attachment 197977
The close binary at HD 69561 (orbit 6ls, radius 4ls)
View attachment 197978

Now, if it's all the same to you CMDRs, I'd like to change the routine and instead of the next consecutive slice pick Slice 43 (and on that note @Iron Body should I create a new slice asignment sheet, since we cannot edit Jackie's?).

Also, question regarding systems with approximate coordinates: For unreachable systems is it still acceptable to put in the approximate/partial coordinates in the sheet?

Just landed a nice one myself, similar giant but I got dropped out around 6kls away from the star.

It's around 250 solar radius and it's way at the bottom of the galaxy, that mottled pattern you see is the galaxy, to far away to see individual stars anywhere. The really nice things about these big stars is when they have companions and planets.

Every single planet in orbit around B, all HMC's, were terraformable, naturally I mapped them all, but I didn't map the ones around the primary in case anyone else ever bothers coming down here, at least they can get their name on the system. Netted me around 15m so well worth all the FC jumps to get here!

Getedoi · Dec 3, 2020

257 Solar Radii, damn.That is indeed a fine system. Even moreso because the HIPs around extreme high/lows seem to be pretty boring systems in general, with only a star (sometimes a giant) or two and no planets.

JonathanBurnage · Dec 3, 2020

Iron Body said:
Sounds intriguing, but I don't know Matlab. But what form is your data in, and where did it come from ?

My biggest problem with working out routes in very low density areas is that not all stars are in EDSM, and the galmap is a pain in those areas.

It’s a combination of Jackie’s spreadsheet, which comes from EDSM if I recall (ie people visiting the HIPs) and my own manual recording of coordinates of unreachable places. Mine is in Numbers (Mac) but I can easily export to Excel.

if nobody can use the code I can just get a single use Matlab licence, but if someone can put it into a freely-available language then that’s cool.

Iron Body · Dec 3, 2020

Getedoi said:
Awesome! I'll edit them later along with the entries from slice 32.

varonica said:
Just landed a nice one myself, similar giant but I got dropped out around 6kls away from the star.

It's around 250 solar radius and it's way at the bottom of the galaxy, that mottled pattern you see is the galaxy, to far away to see individual stars anywhere. The really nice things about these big stars is when they have companions and planets.

Every single planet in orbit around B, all HMC's, were terraformable, naturally I mapped them all, but I didn't map the ones around the primary in case anyone else ever bothers coming down here, at least they can get their name on the system. Netted me around 15m so well worth all the FC jumps to get here!

Very similar to this system, but the outer two planets of the companion star here are both ELWs. Only my second ever double ELW, shame they are not bound together.