General Grenade Expansion

[DemiserofD]

Grenades are oddly limited at the moment. You have a very limited quantity, they're hard to replace, their aoe is relatively small, and because of varying gravity, they're very difficult to use effectively.

1. Allow players to change their toss trajectory.​

One thing that could make them much more useful is allowing players to change their trajectory. By holding down the grenade toss button, it should allow a player to adjust how hard they are going to toss their grenade. A brief press would give them a short flick, allowing them to, say, curve them over a wall or down into a trench. A lengthy press should allow them to be charged up ABOVE the default maximum, for truly impressive olympic-level throws!

2. Sticky Grenades​

A serious problem with grenades is the way they interact with the ground. Because the ground doesn't have anything but hard surfaces, grenades will almost always fly WAY beyond their intended target. It would be seriously nice if you could flick on or off a 'sticky grenade' option, allowing them to stick to walls, ceilings, the ground, or even to ships and larger enemies like goliaths! It still shouldn't stick to on-foot targets, though, since that would seem unfair.

3. Replacing your stock.​

A serious issue with grenades is a lack of them. Grenade boxes are a very limited way to offer more, and if you're using them at all, CZs can easily be used up in a minute or two, leaving none for the rest of the conflict. Why are grenades limited when there are unlimited ammo boxes?

It would be very nice if the grenade boxes would periodically close and restock, perhaps with a countdown timer on the outside to grenade synthesis. They should tend to produce mostly frags, less often shield grenades, and only rarely shield bubble grenades.

 

[Northpin]

Allow players to change their toss trajectory.

Some form of grenade aiming helper (that would reliable account for local gravity) could be useful, but this will remove the skill from their use.

Why are grenades limited when there are unlimited ammo boxes?

Because they're way too powerful maybe?
I mean one single Emp grenade can wipe shields in quite a radius
And one single Frag grenade can wipe any unshielded npc.

 

[DemiserofD]

Some form of grenade aiming helper (that would reliable account for local gravity) could be useful, but this will remove the skill from their use.

Yeah, I thought about some sort of fire arc helper, but ultimately decided it would probably make things a bit too easy. Just knowing the g rating and having the ability to adjust the energy of your toss would create a more skillful way to use them, I think.

Because they're way too powerful maybe?
I mean one single Emp grenade can wipe shields in quite a radius
And one single Frag grenade can wipe any unshielded npc.

They're powerful, sure...but even accounting for the current ammo boxes, it's rare to earn more than a few kills over an entire CZ. Now admittedly, part of that is just because they're almost impossible to use against moving targets, so maybe just the trajectory and sticky grenade changes would fix that problem. But still, it seems strange to have content and then restrict its use so completely, especially when you can freely and unlimitedly replenish rocket ammo.

 

[Northpin]

Now admittedly, part of that is just because they're almost impossible to use against moving targets

No, they're not impossible to use - NPC, even moving, are quite predictable

I'm quite successful in using either EMP grenades followed by kinetic fire at the poor unshielded sods or using lasers to unshield them while tossing a Frag grenade in the mix. Seeing 3 or more kills in the info bar is especially rewarding, but even getting 2 kills is good enough.
And getting them as soon the land tossing an Emp then following with L6 it's even more nasty.

As i said, the only nasty part is lacking any sort of aim assist.
Which means i have to waste like 2-3 grenades to get accustomed with local gravity and grenade trajectories.

If anything, instead of improving the grenades, i'd nerf the L-6
Dominators sporting 2x g5 heavily modified L-6 are particularly deadly.

 

[DemiserofD]

but even getting 2 kills is good enough.

Is it, though? I highly doubt you get this with any degree of consistency, and even if you're getting it half the time, you're still looking at MAYBE 5 kills per CZ as a result of grenades, versus over a hundred via your other weapons. That's a pretty dang small degree of benefit for the very substantial skill requirement necessary to use them.

And getting them as soon the land tossing an Emp then following with L6 it's even more nasty.

That's the only really practical use for them in my experience, but also the one place they should absolutely not be effective. Spawn camping is never fun or good gameplay.

 

[Northpin]

Is it, though? I highly doubt you get this with any degree of consistency, and even if you're getting it half the time, you're still looking at MAYBE 5 kills per CZ as a result of grenades, versus over a hundred via your other weapons. That's a pretty dang small degree of benefit for the very substantial skill requirement necessary to use them.

Grenades are weapons of opportunity.
IMO they're not intended to replace primary or secondary weapons.

I'll use them if im in position to clear a landing zone or to clear a room etc

So, getting 5-6 grenade kills in a CZ is good enough.

 

[DemiserofD]

Grenades are weapons of opportunity.
IMO they're not intended to replace primary or secondary weapons.

True, but they also need to be regularly useful enough that people remember they even exist. In my experience, most players use them so infrequently they're forgetting about them entirely, which defeats the whole point in having them at all!

 

[Northpin]

In my experience, most players use them so infrequently they're forgetting about them entirely, which defeats the whole point in having them at all!

Your experience doesnt match my own experience
As i said, i regularly use both frags and emps, of course when opportunity arise (often enough to have them bound to my mmo mouse, for easy swapping between types)
Projectors not so much, but i did use some when i was in open, opposing other cmdrs. They make good defense when cornered

 

[DemiserofD]

Your experience doesnt match my own experience
As i said, i regularly use both frags and emps, of course when opportunity arise.
Projectors not so much, but i did use some when i was in open, opposing other cmdrs. They make good defense when cornered

I'm just basing it on every single twitch streamer I've ever watched. The response when I suggest using them, almost word-for-word, is always "Oh, grenades? I forgot I even had those."

Clearly something is amiss.

 

[zikolach]

A serious issue with grenades is a lack of them. Grenade boxes are a very limited way to offer more, and if you're using them at all, CZs can easily be used up in a minute or two, leaving none for the rest of the conflict. Why are grenades limited when there are unlimited ammo boxes?

It would be more fair to make all ammo boxes having limited amount of restock and deliver new ammo and grenade boxes with new groups of combatants.

Some form of grenade aiming helper (that would reliable account for local gravity) could be useful, but this will remove the skill from their use.

The helper could be only available when one is standing still and appears after 1-2 seconds of holding a button. So one can use it to learn how to better use them and then apply the skill also while moving.

 

[Northpin]

I'm just basing it on every single twitch streamer I've ever watched

Well, i wont even comment on that...

 

[Northpin]

The helper could be only available when one is standing still and appears after 1-2 seconds of holding a button. So one can use it to learn how to better use them and then apply the skill also while moving.

And then everyone will camp in a spot with their fingers stuck on grenade launch button

 

[zikolach]

And then everyone will camp in a spot with their fingers stuck on grenade launch button

No, only if you want to use helper - you need to stand and hold the button long enough. If you move or just press shortly - it works as now.

 

[zikolach]

Another idea - use pointing emote to set exact place where granade should land, then use holding button action to "aim" (sort of mini-game - the longer you press the more accurate you throw, up to 2-5 seconds maybe). When button is released you throw the grenade (still need to aim in that direction, but not necessary as accurate as now).

 

[Northpin]

No, only if you want to use helper - you need to stand and hold the button long enough. If you move or just press shortly - it works as now.

Exactly.
I will stand in the shadows, still and holding the button, waiting for someone to pass through the grenade landing zone.
Setting the landing zone distant enough to match the grenade delayed explosion, to making it rather unavoidable

 

[zikolach]

Sticky Grenades

As much as I like core mining mechanic, as much I'd like this to be in the game. Maybe even with option to remotely detonate when you need it.

What I really miss in on-foot gameplay is some sort of on-screen user interface which will not blocking ability to move and at the same time allow to interact with things. Like ship left-side contact panel.

 

[metatheurgist]

Try using them in enclosed spaces?