Griefers are killing this game............

[JosiahD]

Many people find combat logging "useful" in many situations. Each and every single one of these people, utterly irrespective of reason, is a cheater who harms the enjoyment of this fantastic game for others.

Not a supporter of combat logging per se, as I've stated on many previous occasions, and I've not had to, nor been tempted to, resort to it. However, nor do I really have any sympathy for any ganking SOBs who continue to 'exploit' the absence of meaningful consequences for 'murder', branded as piracy, when they come across someone who combat logs on them. Combat logging might be an unacceptable act when it harms the enjoyment of others (both the psychopaths and legitimate pirates/bounty hunters) in this game, but so too is mindless, pointless 'killing' of a clean CMDR (such as a harmless trader or a new player) for no other purpose than ruining that CMDR's day because you can - it also harms the enjoyment of others in this game and just because the game mechanics allow for it that doesn't mean it is any more acceptable.
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People who complain about getting ganked, griefed or whatever are usually advised by some to go play solo or in a private group if they don't like the risks of playing in open. That is, the risks of not just being pirated, but being simply outright mindlessly murdered for no reason and no advantage whatsoever to the murderer (ie no cargo, no combat rating improvement etc).
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I'm therefore inclined to suggest to those who insist on continuing to exploit the current absence of meaningful consequences in policed space, or who insist on mindlessly ganking new players etc, and who then complain about their victims combat logging maybe you might also like to consider playing in solo (NPCs don't combat log) or a private group (where you can play with friends who you know won't combat log on you). I might have more sympathy for you if and when combat logging persists at the same levels after we have some meaningful consequences of crime introduced.

 

[GibMeister]

Well, I think there is nothing wrong with the 'Griefers' they are playing the game the way they want to, whats wrong as many of you say is that the Bounty against the killers isn't enough to deter them, there should be a consequence to murder that is enough to make you really consider what you are about to do before you do it. Also, the insurance re-buy is too costly and why is there no insurance for your cargo? The insurance should work as it does in real life, you pay in advance to have cover not after you have been killed when you might have no money left! How stupid is that! When you buy a ship you should be offered the insurance at the time of purchase and the sum you pay should cover you for ever, even if its a monthly premium that is removed by direct debit from your account? I don't know but its not rocket science.

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But don't blame the 'Griefers' they are just bored and want some fun!
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Oh and ganking new players, well how difficult would it be for new players to play the first 2 weeks in solo? Or even give them free insurance for the first few weeks of play?

 

[Lister_of_Smeg]

block them, move on. jobs a goodun. or grow some balls

 

[Joe Spivey]

block them, move on. jobs a goodun. or grow some balls

It's not about 'growing some balls' and although I don't think that griefing is actually very wide spread in the game, for those who feel that they have been griefed (and btw that's all it actually takes, to 'feel' that you have been griefed. It doesn't matter what definition of griefed you use, it is the effect that counts).

For those that feel they have been griefed it is a very very frustrating experience and causes real anger and may well be decisive as to whether or not that person continues playing and, just as importantly, spreads the word that ED is 'full of griefers'. Griefing, or rather the perception of griefing in ED is a very real issue and a small number of people are having a disproportionate and counter-productive effect on the game.

 

[Joe Spivey]

Oh and ganking new players, well how difficult would it be for new players to play the first 2 weeks in solo? Or even give them free insurance for the first few weeks of play?

That's rather like blaming the victim don't you think?

 

[Jay8ch]

I play in open in outlying systems but switch to solo if I'm around the old worlds where all the idiots seem to hang out.

For those that defend people attacking others for no gain with vastly superior ships or in wings, I just don't see how anyone can think it's clever. It's like a featherweight boxer being attacked in the ring by 3 heavyweights. Nobody would respect the outcome. They'd think it was a stupid waste of everyone's time. The game doesn't enforce rules. I don't really know of many games that have no rules that hold the interest of a large group of people for long. It needs more structure.

 

[aws357]

It is pretty obvious what is going on and FD better act before their game dies.
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A bunch of "Solo" players, who wanted the Offline game, have spent an age trading in Solo to get the best ships, and THEY are the "greifers" coming in to Open.....they are already bored with the game, and still angry at the "No Offline" mode....so they figure the best way to get what they want is to destroy open.
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FD needs to lock a player to a mode or their game is dead. The Open/Solo mechanic is being abused to destroy their game..........but maybe FD want it like that, they have the sales money already so best if it dies fast and they can move on to new things.

*hands in a tinfoil hat*

 

[Joe Spivey]

It is pretty obvious what is going on and FD better act before their game dies.
.
A bunch of "Solo" players, who wanted the Offline game, have spent an age trading in Solo to get the best ships, and THEY are the "greifers" coming in to Open.....they are already bored with the game, and still angry at the "No Offline" mode....so they figure the best way to get what they want is to destroy open.
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FD needs to lock a player to a mode or their game is dead. The Open/Solo mechanic is being abused to destroy their game..........but maybe FD want it like that, they have the sales money already so best if it dies fast and they can move on to new things.

LMAO! Nice attempt to derail into a solo v open debate. Kudos, but no rep for you! Naughty.

 

[Jay8ch]

Not a supporter of combat logging per se, as I've stated on many previous occasions, and I've not had to, nor been tempted to, resort to it. However, nor do I really have any sympathy for any ganking SOBs who continue to 'exploit' the absence of meaningful consequences for 'murder', branded as piracy, when they come across someone who combat logs on them. Combat logging might be an unacceptable act when it harms the enjoyment of others (both the psychopaths and legitimate pirates/bounty hunters) in this game, but so too is mindless, pointless 'killing' of a clean CMDR (such as a harmless trader or a new player) for no other purpose than ruining that CMDR's day because you can - it also harms the enjoyment of others in this game and just because the game mechanics allow for it that doesn't mean it is any more acceptable.
.
People who complain about getting ganked, griefed or whatever are usually advised by some to go play solo or in a private group if they don't like the risks of playing in open. That is, the risks of not just being pirated, but being simply outright mindlessly murdered for no reason and no advantage whatsoever to the murderer (ie no cargo, no combat rating improvement etc).
.
I'm therefore inclined to suggest to those who insist on continuing to exploit the current absence of meaningful consequences in policed space, or who insist on mindlessly ganking new players etc, and who then complain about their victims combat logging maybe you might also like to consider playing in solo (NPCs don't combat log) or a private group (where you can play with friends who you know won't combat log on you). I might have more sympathy for you if and when combat logging persists at the same levels after we have some meaningful consequences of crime introduced.

Very well put. People behave in a throw away manner and are surprised when people react with a throwaway response. Just as with everything else, treat the game with respect and you may get some in return.

 

[LawHunter]

Just don't get your problem.

Move to uninhabbited systems. Make more money trading on the frontier systems anyway.

I have never been "griefed" in this game. Or any game. It IS the game.

 

[_Flin_]

I play in open in outlying systems but switch to solo if I'm around the old worlds where all the idiots seem to hang out.

Exactly. This is how I play as well. I do not have enough time to grind virtual money in my freetime only to satisfy the sociopathic tendencies of bored teenagers.

For those that defend people attacking others for no gain with vastly superior ships or in wings, I just don't see how anyone can think it's clever. It's like a featherweight boxer being attacked in the ring by 3 heavyweights. Nobody would respect the outcome. They'd think it was a stupid waste of everyone's time. The game doesn't enforce rules.

Yep. We'll see how the crime changes turn out. I highly doubt though that they will change very much. It will just make griefing more tricky.

I do not see stomping outnumbered and outgunned opposition as anything else than griefing. it might be legitimate gameplay. But blowing your nose into your hand and then wiping it on your trouser isn't illegal either, that doesn't make it less disgusting.

 

[Nara]

It's not about 'growing some balls' and although I don't think that griefing is actually very wide spread in the game, for those who feel that they have been griefed (and btw that's all it actually takes, to 'feel' that you have been griefed. It doesn't matter what definition of griefed you use, it is the effect that counts).

For those that feel they have been griefed it is a very very frustrating experience and causes real anger and may well be decisive as to whether or not that person continues playing and, just as importantly, spreads the word that ED is 'full of griefers'. Griefing, or rather the perception of griefing in ED is a very real issue and a small number of people are having a disproportionate and counter-productive effect on the game.

I see what you are saying, but trying to do something about this is just whistling in the wind unless FD plan to change the whole design of their game and remove any form of PvP.

Anyone that's been playing online games for longer than a week knows that every game is full of whiners that put themselves in the position of PvP happening and crying foul when it happens. It's been part of PvP in games for the best part of the last 20 years.

So I for one am not going to worry about it, and instead rely on the average gamer understanding that whiners are going to whine.

 

[Joe Spivey]

I see what you are saying, but trying to do something about this is just whistling in the wind unless FD plan to change the whole design of their game and remove any form of PvP.

Anyone that's been playing online games for longer than a week knows that every game is full of whiners that put themselves in the position of PvP happening and crying foul when it happens. It's been part of PvP in games for the best part of the last 20 years.

So I for one am not going to worry about it, and instead rely on the average gamer understanding that whiners are going to whine.

Again, blaming the victim? It's just a short step from what you are saying here to "She was flying a Sidewinder, she was asking for it."

 

[cryon1cang3l]

We need more PvP, we need way more danger in the universe. Right now you can avoid destruction if you dont make mistakes, but some people including me want way more ways to die horribly even if you did anything right. I was expecting more people to play in open, fight for every credit they can grab etc. But this is not happening.
Playing on a dangerous server means more fun. Remember WoW PvP server and so on.

Some people actually like to fight and to expect deadly threats everywhere. Games like DayZ show us how it works.

 

[bendover]

We can i think at least conceded that a diliberate ram is an act off aggression and should be treated as such.Unfortuately there Bullies in the real world and Bullies in the virtual world we just have to learn how to deal with it,what is most irksome is that these bullies can hide here and suffer no repercusions.Plus massivley outnumbering your foe in war is a good idea but ED is a Game,I can not understand why one person would go out to spoil another persons game some people are just like that.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Internet tough guy act aside, until fines for murder are at least equal to the rebuy cost of the ship you have killed there is no real consequence for crime.

At no point are you ever required to pay your bounty, so it doesn't matter how they fine you for murder. I could get fined 1 million credits crs for every kill but as long as I don't do something stupid like park where I'm wanted, I never need to worry.

 

[_Flin_]

Playing on a dangerous server means more fun. Remember WoW PvP server and so on.

Yes I do. That's why I play mostly in Private Group. And Open only in cheap ships.

I enjoyed playing on a WoW PvP server when the game was new, the genre itself was rather new, and I had plenty of time. Over the years, the amount of time went, the time in game got less, I dropped from being top notch to being a mediocre victim. And after a few years I said to myself: The time I wasted only by playing on a PvP server, to be ganked by better equipped, better playing or just more "opponent" players... it's bad enough to waste time by playing video games. But "playing" games where you have a boring course of action dictated to you by other players (as in: run to your corpse and wait until that person is gone or far enough away that you can escape) was the worst gaming experience I ever had.

Fun? Sometimes. But being ROFLstomped by other's where you don't even have a fighting chance, or not even a getaway chance... well... no. Not fun. Not one bit.

And my time is way to precious for such shenanigans by now.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

but so too is mindless, pointless 'killing' of a clean CMDR (such as a harmless trader or a new player) for no other purpose than ruining that CMDR's day because you can.

You said a lot of stuff, some I agree with some I don't, but I only want to address this.

New players are the only ones who get a pass on the woe is me I got killed. They're allowed to be unfamiliar with how elite works, veteran harmless traders have no excuse. The elite universe isn't some happy go lucky, rainbowbrite village. It's a terrible place where it's kill or be killed. You don't get anything unless you're, strong, smart, cunning, fast, enough to protect it. That includes your life.

 

[TriumphANT]

Oh and ganking new players, well how difficult would it be for new players to play the first 2 weeks in solo? Or even give them free insurance for the first few weeks of play?

My thought is that FDEV have missed a trick with protecting new players, but I can't for the life of me think how it could be implemented. Almost like the crime of infanticide. Not sure what would work though...

There are very, very few griefers in ED, and to an extent they do add a bit of interest to the game. I've come up against the "most obvious" ones, and didn't get angry. It just grates at you when you know they're doing something so inherently pointless. It would be like playing a driving game and just deliberately crashing into all the other cars on the first corner of every race, every time, just to see the carnage. It HAS to get tired after the 5th, 10th or 50th time, plus at least one of the guys I came up against is a stunningly good pilot (and was heralded as such in another thread by another CMDR, so not just my opinion). Whatever we do with the criminal system will squeeze their behaviour into some different, but probably equally anti-social. Maybe psycho-idiot-o-paths are an important part of the game. Maybe having something like a "system ban" would be a better way of dealing with persistent offenders too? Just so they can't always camp out in one place and pretend its "theirs", which seems to be part of the attraction.

 

[Joe Spivey]

My thought is that FDEV have missed a trick with protecting new players, but I can't for the life of me think how it could be implemented. Almost like the crime of infanticide. Not sure what would work though...

There are very, very few griefers in ED, and to an extent they do add a bit of interest to the game. I've come up against the "most obvious" ones, and didn't get angry. It just grates at you when you know they're doing something so inherently pointless. It would be like playing a driving game and just deliberately crashing into all the other cars on the first corner of every race, every time, just to see the carnage. It HAS to get tired after the 5th, 10th or 50th time, plus at least one of the guys I came up against is a stunningly good pilot (and was heralded as such in another thread by another CMDR, so not just my opinion). Whatever we do with the criminal system will squeeze their behaviour into some different, but probably equally anti-social. Maybe psycho-idiot-o-paths are an important part of the game. Maybe having something like a "system ban" would be a better way of dealing with persistent offenders too? Just so they can't always camp out in one place and pretend its "theirs", which seems to be part of the attraction.

FD did have a plan to deal with these types where they would eventually end up in a kind of 'griefer hell' with just others of their ilk to play with. Wonder what happened to that.