Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.

Morbad

Morbad
Screemonster said:
It'd still be able to deal some damage to another ship on its way down if someone came along with the intent to just sink it rather than loot it, enough to make such random attacks risky and pointless. Which is.. not the case in Elite, where Rinzler's guide to trading in open literally says to ditch the guns to save weight since you don't stand a chance of getting through the shields, never mind winning, against a dedicated combat ship.
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All of my CMDR's trade ships are fully armed and sufficiently armored to be competitive with pirate-class CMDR interdictors flown by peer-level pilots. Blockaders or gankers in pure warships will best my trade vessels in combat (again with similar piloting ability), and they should.

The overall situation is, if anything, more in favor of my trade ships in ED than a war galleon vs. a treasure galleon in the age of sail.

Rinzler's guide is geared toward novice CMDRs who just want their ship to be able to survive an encounter long enough to escape. It does not imply that more active or proactive resistance is always futile where there is more of an experience parity.
 

Raino

Raino
n13L5 said:
Its going to be funny in Star Citizen. They don't have any solo mode and they just brought out a tiny ship that can solo or zerg all the big ships they sold for thousands of dollars.
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I am not firm at this Game so please help me understanding, if the bought ships been destroyed are those gone?
cause if so, i really think about takin a look into too, just for the fun O.C.
 
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galahad2069

G
Frenotx said:
Gameplay trumps realism. If you must latch on to realism, then look back to the age of sail where a trade ship very well could be packing cannons, and certain kinds of cannons were even sold specifically for this purpose.
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Even in the age of sail an armed trader could stand very little chance against a warship of the royal navy. It later ages, even less.

Frenotx said:
If you're doing combat missions, chasing down a target, using plasma slug munitions, or just generally moving around, a fuel scoop can indeed be very useful, especially considering the anemic range of some combat ships. Limpets are very useful for collecting materials dropped from downed targets. Cargo space and limpets are critical to doing actual piracy. Repair limpets can be useful for keeping a ship patched up between skirmishes in extended sorties (or at least conceivably could be, pending balance tweaking). An SRV can be helpful for gathering synthesis materials, as well, for rearming without needing to return to a station. Then there are of course the bounty and wake scanners, and cargo scanner if you're looking to liberate cargo. Many other modules could be added in the future for combat-related careers, as well, such as the aforementioned prison cells, modules to give you more max ammo. There are plenty of modules a ship can currently carry that assist with combat career efficiency, and many more that could conceivably be added in the future.
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No matter what kind of fuel scoop you have, you'll never be able to chase a 70 Ly Anaconda through multiple systems in your max. (iirc) 18 Ly FDL.

Frenotx said:
Taking pretty much any of these is foolish now, but that's only because of the substantial amount health you have to give up to do so. Many of those modules aren't relevant specifically for exclusively fighting and killing other players, but that's an small sub-specialization of "combat" as a whole, and even of PvP potential encounters. If my proposed changes were implemented, you could still choose to leave all your optional slots empty if you really wanted to. It would potentially save you a bit of weight and power, and give you a slight edge against a more loaded ship. You would, however, have the option to bring a slightly more broadly capable vessle, without significantly gimping your chances in a fight. Who knows? Maybe we'd see a few more people looking into piracy if they could bring the gear required to do so without trashing their combat readiness, relatively speaking.
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As things stand now, your minmaxed health pool won't last very long in a larger scale (4v4 and above) wingfight. Currently the game is best balanced around 2v2 and especially 3v3 medium only kind of wingfights (I mean these are the most enjoyable and dynamic fights IMO, not too long, not too short - strictly from the offense vs defence POV ofc, not taking idiotic unbalanced things like seekers/packhounds, premium ammo and the canopy mechanics into account). 4v4's and 5v5's can be OKish, anything above that not so much (except maybe if you restict the surplus ships to small ones? I'm not sure, and there's even the instance size problem above a certain number of ships.)

Frenotx said:
The point is to give options without having to gimp your ability to properly fight, which is the only activity that can potentially be thrust upon you. You don't have to worry about all ships being able to bring a full mining build, because you don't have to worry about someone interdicting you and forcing you into a mining race... to the death. At any point in time, however, (with the exception of deep space exploration), another ship very well could interdict you and force you into a combat situation. The only way for those sudden situations to remain interesting for all parties, is if all parties can remain equiped for a fight, even when they're not looking for one.
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If a combat ship (let alone a wing of combat ships) interdicts a trader (a typical ganking scenario), that's not a combat situation. That's just a game of survival. The rules are simple: if the trader survives, he/she is the winner. And it's not even that difficult (with the exception of maybe if you are up against a very well prepared and experienced ganker wing). But it's definitely not a real combat situation, I mean you're not supposed to be able to defeat a whole wing, not even if you are in a fully specialised combat ship. Even an 1v2 takes a pretty large skill gap to win if everyone is in a proper pvp ship.
 

n13L5

n13L5
Screemonster said:
meanwhile I log into open and it's just crickets chirping
I was even going to the engineers today in my paper-hull paper-shield anaconda, I made a tour of Zac Nemo, Bris Dekker and Liz Ryder before returning to my home base, and didn't see a single other player until well after I'd docked and switched to the ship I was fitting the modules to.
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I wouldn't know. I think I went into open once - inadvertently...
(And I only butted in to thwart an obvious attempt at misrepresenting the other guy's argument.)


Playing a game with people other than those you choose is like advertising your next party in a newspaper, inviting all and sunder.
Half your will be missing from your apartment, your carpets stained and your mates abused by strangers, nu-uhh...
 

Bryan K

Bryan K
n13L5 said:
Just substitute "killed for no reason within 10 minutes" for "griefed" and your own post doesn't sound so much like hyperbole....

Its going to be funny in Star Citizen. They don't have any solo mode and they just brought out a tiny ship that can solo or zerg all the big ships they sold for thousands of dollars.
I'm going to watch that with a bag of popcorn from a distance to avoid stains on my shirt... Goonfleet are totally ready for their favorite strategy being put on anabolic steroids.
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I’m sure it will be a serious concern when Star Citizen reaches full release in 2038.
 

Thrender Grone

Thrender Grone
NisseNeutron said:
I have never, in a year of playing Elite, been in open and not been randomly killed by a griefer. Imagine that.
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You have terribly bad luck then, because for most players, this is definitely not the norm.

In fact, I honestly have a hard time believing this unless you only play in Open at CGs or other popular systems like Shinrarta or Deciat.

And overall, your “solutions” are terrible ideas.
 

Ezren

Ezren
Frenotx said:
Gameplay trumps realism. If you must latch on to realism, then look back to the age of sail where a trade ship very well could be packing cannons, and certain kinds of cannons were even sold specifically for this purpose.
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...except that a trade ship will be much slower from its cargo load, and have a much smaller combat crew, and will not be specifically dedicated to carrying ammunition and weapons.

It's like saying a kitchen is as combat-ready as a tank because it has some knives in it.
 

Kissaki

Kissaki
This whole thing will be so much easier if they just use a flagging system like most other MMOs. In the case of ED, I think they can do a easy fix if they just use the crime reporting as a pvp flag.
 

galahad2069

G
Bigmaec said:
Ok, the friendly content deliverers from RoA took care of my respawning needs 😂

I guess T6 versus Railaconda wasn't the best idea ...
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Just checked ingame and I was about to tell you that according to the FL there's a whole bunch of "content deliverers" in Reorte, but apparently the RoA dudes were quicker :)
 

Just Paul

Just Paul
Kissaki said:
This whole thing will be so much easier if they just use a flagging system like most other MMOs. In the case of ED, I think they can do a easy fix if they just use the crime reporting as a pvp flag.
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That's just as bad of an idea as OPs. ED is not like other mmo's and I like it for that. I don't want to be in a CZ and can't shoot at a CMDR fighting for the other side because of a pvp flag. Similar with somebody opposing me doing bgs stuff in open. Plus ramming and other more creative workarounds would still work.
Simple solution:
If somebody doesn't want to be exposed to pvp, use Solo or PG. PG is already group pve anyways. From my experience most people playing in open are fine with the occasional organic pvp. It's not like you get interdicted in every system you jump into. Usually you have to go out of your way to look for trouble and even then sometimes you will not find it.
 

Kissaki

Kissaki
Paul Smith the 3rd said:
That's just as bad of an idea as OPs. ED is not like other mmo's and I like it for that. I don't want to be in a CZ and can't shoot at a CMDR fighting for the other side because of a pvp flag. Similar with somebody opposing me doing bgs stuff in open. Plus ramming and other more creative workarounds would still work.
Simple solution:
If somebody doesn't want to be exposed to pvp, use Solo or PG. PG is already group pve anyways. From my experience most people playing in open are fine with the occasional organic pvp. It's not like you get interdicted in every system you jump into. Usually you have to go out of your way to look for trouble and even then sometimes you will not find it.
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Typical ED pvp who just want to catch other people whos not prepared and fear a fair fight. The whole point of flagging is so both sides are ready for pvp. The idea of asking others to not go into open in a MMO is the lunacy here. The point of MMO is to meet other players and most game want to create a safe environment for that to happen but small group of players in ED seem to think that open is for oles and only oles are allowed to play. They are not even true pvp players because true pvp players want a fair fight where both sides are ready and its a real contest of skills. Not this where all they want to do is just to "gank" somebody and brag about it like that make them look big.
 

Just Paul

Just Paul
Kissaki said:
Typical ED pvp who just want to catch other people whos not prepared and fear a fair fight. The whole point of flagging is so both sides are ready for pvp. The idea of asking others to not go into open in a MMO is the lunacy here. The point of MMO is to meet other players and most game want to create a safe environment for that to happen but small group of players in ED seem to think that open is for oles and only oles are allowed to play. They are not even true pvp players because true pvp players want a fair fight where both sides are ready and its a real contest of skills. Not this poopoo where all they want to do is just to "gank" somebody and brag about it like that make them look big.
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As far as I know we never met in the game. So how do you know what I do in it? Fyi until now I never ganked anybody or fought someone who wasn't better than me.
Where did I say something about catching unprepared people? Most times I'm the one caught un- or ill-prepared, but I wouldn't want any pvp flags or other things which would restrict open mode from what it is right now.

Elite is not your usual MMO, there are no common goals or things to do. It's a sandbox with a space setting. Most CMDRs work on their own goals in the game and many times they collide with other CMDRs goals, therefore conflict is build-in, if you like it or not. How the conflict is resolved is up to them, could be by agreement, conflict or anything inbetween. Plus it's not really MMO with instancing and other network related stuff. It's quite a lot of work to get 15 people into the same instance.

PG is PvE in a group setting. Set up a PG, find up to 20.000 like minded people who are most times in the same part of the galaxy and you have many CMDRs around you can meet without fear to be shot at. Why is it that a minority always wants to change open into something it is not if there are 2 other modes? Asking to change 1 of the 3 to suit your ideas is the real lunacy.

*The minority part is deducted from my interactions and talks with other CMDRs in-game, not from the forums or other online venues.
 
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