Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.

[Phoenix_Dfire]

I was in Asterope in open over the weekend when a ganker decided to have a go. It was easy enough to high wake out as Krait Phantom outruns a Krait MK II. However, I was in the new system for about 2 mins, when I notice a hollow triangle jump in and notice it was the same ganker. I couldn't be bothered dealing with him, so dropped out of the game and switched to a Pvt group.

The thing is the system chat works across all modes and lo and behold Mr Ganker whinged about me menu logging. Damn right, I wasn't in the mood for PVP, you were spoiling my game Experiance so therefore I don't want to fly in the same instance as you. Deal with it.

I don't mind piracy, I don't mind consensual PVP but straight up murder-hoboing gives the game an EVE like reputation which puts people off. I do feel that there needs to be a bigger deterrent for this kind of gameplay but without harming piracy or 'proper PvP'. Heck I think Piracy need a serious buff.

 

[mondog]

I've always thought the root of the problem lies in peoples shock at the huge difference between encountering a hostile npc and a hostile player.
It speaks volumes that in every case the victim thinks "yep, she'll be right" as they launch into open completely unprepared for the consequences should that hollow marker turn into anything except a benign o7.

I find it especially interesting how much extra vitriol ensues when death happens to a pvp player rather than an npc. Just goes to show how low skill/challenge the pve backdrop is when compared to the robust and ever evolving tactics and agression of real players.

Its a shame really, maybe if the pve content was elevated to the point of actually being dangerous, the average player would elevate thier builds, skills and tactics to a point where most gankers wouldn't be any real problem.

You miss the entire underlying problem since day 1 of Elite with Crime and Punishment. If someone wants to grief, there is no come back for them, there's no system that puts any risk on them, there's no reason not too. I'm not actually against people pirating and engaging in non consensual PvP, however every argument which amounts to basically "get gud" its entirety flawed. Unless you're fit for PvP or to escape PVP, at the compromise of every other activity, you'll be killed if someone wants you dead. The entire risk is placed on the person being ganked.

Crime and Punishment in ED is deeply flawed. It needs a solid revision, which has consequences for actions. The risk should not entirely sit with the person being ganked, the person ganking should be making a choice with risks and downsides to their actions. The greater your crimes, the deeper the hole you need to dig your way out of. In addition, ED needs to have lawful and lawless space both mean something.

 

[galahad2069]

I was in Asterope in open over the weekend when a ganker decided to have a go. It was easy enough to high wake out as Krait Phantom outruns a Krait MK II. However, I was in the new system for about 2 mins, when I notice a hollow triangle jump in and notice it was the same ganker. I couldn't be bothered dealing with him, so dropped out of the game and switched to a Pvt group.

The thing is the system chat works across all modes and lo and behold Mr Ganker whinged about me menu logging. Damn right, I wasn't in the mood for PVP, you were spoiling my game Experiance so therefore I don't want to fly in the same instance as you. Deal with it.

I don't mind piracy, I don't mind consensual PVP but straight up murder-hoboing gives the game an EVE like reputation which puts people off. I do feel that there needs to be a bigger deterrent for this kind of gameplay but without harming piracy or 'proper PvP'. Heck I think Piracy need a serious buff.

Good luck to all those buffed pirates though if you keep menu logging on them whenever you are not in the mood for PvP but still insist on flying in Open.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

Good luck to all those buffed pirates though if you keep menu logging on them whenever you are not in the mood for PvP but still insist on flying in Open.

Probably would have toughed it out if they'd sent a stand and deliver message, like the code do. Nice to have a little RP interaction. Like I said, Piracy needs looking. However, the only way I've found to wing up with people is when you do fly in open, then when Mr Griefer comes along to spoil it, I don't give them the satisfaction.

Again it comes back to the C&P system needs a little bit of tweaking to get there.

 

[Ethaidan]

I was in Asterope in open over the weekend when a ganker decided to have a go. It was easy enough to high wake out as Krait Phantom outruns a Krait MK II. However, I was in the new system for about 2 mins, when I notice a hollow triangle jump in and notice it was the same ganker. I couldn't be bothered dealing with him, so dropped out of the game and switched to a Pvt group.

The thing is the system chat works across all modes and lo and behold Mr Ganker whinged about me menu logging. Damn right, I wasn't in the mood for PVP, you were spoiling my game Experiance so therefore I don't want to fly in the same instance as you. Deal with it.

I don't mind piracy, I don't mind consensual PVP but straight up murder-hoboing gives the game an EVE like reputation which puts people off. I do feel that there needs to be a bigger deterrent for this kind of gameplay but without harming piracy or 'proper PvP'. Heck I think Piracy need a serious buff.

How do you know he was a ganker? If he appeared in the next system, that suggests he had a wake scanner on board, and chasing you from system to system after you easily hi-waked away doesn't sound like opportunist ganker behaviour. Wake scanners are a huge power draw and the only time I fit a wake scanner is when I am going pirating

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

How do you know he was a ganker? If he appeared in the next system, that suggests he had a wake scanner on board, and chasing you from system to system after you easily hi-waked away doesn't sound like opportunist ganker behaviour. Wake scanners are a huge power draw and the only time I fit a wake scanner is when I am going pirating

Gankers can be pirates right? In fact, most pirates would be wise to be gankers since they need the threat of swift destruction.

Probably would have toughed it out if they'd sent a stand and deliver message, like the code do

Unfortunately pirates are also at the mercy of the piratee. Both the pirate and the piratee have to be in the mood for piracy for it to work.

And this is because of the damned if you do, damned if you don't mechanics for both sides.
The pirate has to deal with menu and high wake timers, so is strapped for time.
The piratee has to deal with the possibility the interdictor is a run of the mill instant pew pilot looking for an easy kill.

 

[Good Whiskey]

Unfortunately pirates are also at the mercy of the piratee. Both the pirate and the piratee have to be in the mood for piracy for it to work.

Player piracy isn't a real thing in Elite. It's a placeholder activity that's basically RP. The reasons for this is simple:

1) Players can't transfer credits to one another
2) Rebuys are ultra cheap

Real piracy would be several pirates disabling a 1b credit Cutter that would cost, say, 250 million credits to replace, and then ransoming that ship for 100 or 150 million. Pay up and they let you go. Don't pay and end up staring at a rebuy screen. And what happens when you pay up and they destroy you anyway? Well, that's how you sort out the honorable pirates from the scum. Reputations would mean something. That would be real piracy, but it's impossible here.

"Drop 2 biowaste or we'll make you spend 50 mil to replace that massive ship!" isn't much of a payoff or a threat, especially since anyone flying an expensive ship in Elite is extremely likely to be able to afford the rebuy quite easily. Your average ship isn't that expensive though. A 100-200 million credit medium ship, and especially a 10-50 million credit smaller ship, is very cheap to replace. 5% is a comparatively incredibly small price to pay to get everything back.

Elite isn't set up for complex criminality. I'm not complaining about this, just pointing out that it isn't.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

How do you know he was a ganker? If he appeared in the next system, that suggests he had a wake scanner on board, and chasing you from system to system after you easily hi-waked away doesn't sound like opportunist ganker behaviour. Wake scanners are a huge power draw and the only time I fit a wake scanner is when I am going pirating

Erm, he interdicted me and opened fire the instant we were back in real space, that's Ganking Behaviour. No demands for cargo, No firing of limpits. As I said, I high waked away because I don't combat log. He then followed to the next system.

 

[Bigmaec]

I was in Asterope in open over the weekend when a ganker decided to have a go. It was easy enough to high wake out as Krait Phantom outruns a Krait MK II. However, I was in the new system for about 2 mins, when I notice a hollow triangle jump in and notice it was the same ganker. I couldn't be bothered dealing with him, so dropped out of the game and switched to a Pvt group.

The thing is the system chat works across all modes and lo and behold Mr Ganker whinged about me menu logging. Damn right, I wasn't in the mood for PVP, you were spoiling my game Experiance so therefore I don't want to fly in the same instance as you. Deal with it.

I don't mind piracy, I don't mind consensual PVP but straight up murder-hoboing gives the game an EVE like reputation which puts people off. I do feel that there needs to be a bigger deterrent for this kind of gameplay but without harming piracy or 'proper PvP'. Heck I think Piracy need a serious buff.

Jump out and immediately kill your thrusters in the next system via right hand modules tab. No wake signal... No whining when you then mode switch.

Or just ignore the whining.

 

[Old Duck]

Jump out and immediately kill your thrusters in the next system via right hand modules tab. No wake signal...

How is this different than double-tap emergency drop? Real question, not argument.

 

[Bigmaec]

How is this different than double-tap emergency drop? Real question, not argument.

iirc emergency drop needs the fsd to cool down first. Killing the thrusters not.
Warning: damages your ship.

Edit: it uses instancing. No one in Supercruise, a pursuer gets a new instance...

 

[Bigmaec]

Killing your engines while still in SC won't damage your ship? That would be new to me. Guess you'd need to slow down to dropout speed first, correct?

You misunderstood me. Both emergency drop and killing thrusters damages your ship.

 

[Sylveria]

Real piracy would be several pirates disabling a 1b credit Cutter that would cost, say, 250 million credits to replace, and then ransoming that ship for 100 or 150 million. Pay up and they let you go. Don't pay and end up staring at a rebuy screen. And what happens when you pay up and they destroy you anyway? Well, that's how you sort out the honorable pirates from the scum. Reputations would mean something. That would be real piracy, but it's impossible here.

As if extortion could be considered "honorable" as a profession to begin with.

Whatever happened to earning your own money honestly like everyone else does? If you want people to treat you with honor, integrity, dignity and respect- you must first treat others the same.

That's why I always chuckle when I see "pirates" claiming to be honorable. As the adage goes- there's no honor among thieves.

 

[CSV]

Fly fast or armed to the teeth. Hate and fear anyone who isn't you. Now click on Open Play.

 

[Stinja]

I couldn't be bothered dealing with him, so dropped out of the game and switched to a Pvt group.

The thing is the system chat works across all modes and lo and behold Mr Ganker whinged about me menu logging.

You realise that you're now a griefer?
That poor ganker is probably firing up a reddit/forum post about Open Only, or filthy menu-loggers causing them mental distress.

Tut tut, think of the children gankers!

 

[Good Whiskey]

As if extortion could be considered "honorable" as a profession to begin with.

Please. Extortion is a perfectly honorable activity.

Whatever happened to earning your own money honestly like everyone else does?

You would be earning your money. By extorting people.

That's why I always chuckle when I see "pirates" claiming to be honorable. As the adage goes - there's no honor among thieves.

"Honor among thieves" is a reference to not stealing from one another. It has nothing to do with robbing a run-of-the-mill space trucker.

 

[Nerwan]

The pirate has to deal with menu and high wake timers, so is strapped for time.

I'm a relatively prolific pirate and I don't find this to be the case all that much to be honest.

1. You'd be surprised how few marks try and high wake, most try to low wake and most try to fight the interdiction game fruitlessly.
2. Menu logging is a much less frequent occurrence than task killing.
3. Both high waking and low waking are now basically mitigated by FSD distruptors which generally give me plenty of time to do whatever I want (especially if they also fought the interdiction)

My procedure is always:

Talk/negotiate/role play if they want to talk.
If they try to run, nick their stuff with hatch breakers and then kill them.
If they don't combat log, there's almost always time for all this.

The peole that escape are usually combat loggers or deadly/elite commanders in Cutters.

 

[Good Whiskey]

I find it especially interesting how much extra vitriol ensues when death happens to a pvp player rather than an npc. Just goes to show how low skill/challenge the pve backdrop is when compared to the robust and ever evolving tactics and aggression of real players.

There's something more to it, though. It's psychological. Some people genuinely can't stand that it was another person who robbed or killed them. They aren't able to focus on the lesson they should have learned from this, because they are way too focused on the fact that someone did this to them. An NPC is just a collection of pixels programmed to either pop them or be exploded - NPC pirates, Thargoids, makes no difference. A person, on the other hand, always has the option to not kill them and instead happily go about their business doing perfectly pleasant and harmless things. But this one didn't. They killed me. Time for the tears and the armchair sociology to commence.

The victims of ganking produce salt that doesn't come from being repeatedly killed by a Dark Souls boss. It's a special kind of salt. "What sort of a sociopath could possibly think it was fun to blow up little old me in my unengineered and unarmed Asp in Open? Someone whose parents didn't love them, that's who!" They take it extremely personally and expend far too many mental and emotional resources coping with it and raging about it. And when the ganker just shrugs and says something like "I was roleplaying a psycho" or "The mechanics allow me to do that" or "I was bored", it confirms in the mind of the victim that their ganker is some kind of degenerate reprobate of the lowest order.

You could write volumes about this particular phenomenon.

 

[Isaiah Evanson]

There's something more to it, though. It's psychological. Some people genuinely can't stand that it was another person who robbed or killed them. They aren't able to focus on the lesson they should have learned from this, because they are way too focused on the fact that someone did this to them. An NPC is just a collection of pixels programmed to either pop them or be exploded - NPC pirates, Thargoids, makes no difference. A person, on the other hand, always has the option to not kill them and instead happily go about their business doing perfectly pleasant and harmless things. But this one didn't. They killed me. Time for the tears and the armchair sociology to commence.

The victims of ganking produce salt that doesn't come from being repeatedly killed by a Dark Souls boss. It's a special kind of salt. "What sort of a sociopath could possibly think it was fun to blow up little old me in my unengineered and unarmed Asp in Open? Someone whose parents didn't love them, that's who!" They take it extremely personally and expend far too many mental and emotional resources coping with it and raging about it. And when the ganker just shrugs and says something like "I was roleplaying a psycho" or "The mechanics allow me to do that" or "I was bored", it confirms in the mind of the victim that their ganker is some kind of degenerate reprobate of the lowest order.

You could write volumes about this particular phenomenon.

Spot the eff on.

 

[Rick6549]

There's something more to it, though. It's psychological. Some people genuinely can't stand that it was another person who robbed or killed them. They aren't able to focus on the lesson they should have learned from this, because they are way too focused on the fact that someone did this to them. An NPC is just a collection of pixels programmed to either pop them or be exploded - NPC pirates, Thargoids, makes no difference. A person, on the other hand, always has the option to not kill them and instead happily go about their business doing perfectly pleasant and harmless things. But this one didn't. They killed me. Time for the tears and the armchair sociology to commence.

The victims of ganking produce salt that doesn't come from being repeatedly killed by a Dark Souls boss. It's a special kind of salt. "What sort of a sociopath could possibly think it was fun to blow up little old me in my unengineered and unarmed Asp in Open? Someone whose parents didn't love them, that's who!" They take it extremely personally and expend far too many mental and emotional resources coping with it and raging about it. And when the ganker just shrugs and says something like "I was roleplaying a psycho" or "The mechanics allow me to do that" or "I was bored", it confirms in the mind of the victim that their ganker is some kind of degenerate reprobate of the lowest order.

You could write volumes about this particular phenomenon.

Good sense isnt allowed here!