Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.

[Ian Skippy]

More than 1 year. Hundreds other players in contacts. Only 2-3 players tried kill me. Noone tried it even in CG system, even when I was in DBX, during CG I was in cruise and just chat with people, noone ganked me.
WE HAVE OPEN PVE, lel.
Rly guys, why do you have problem with 1-2 kills per year? You can loose only...eee...few millions? Explodata? (it can hurt, but...you have thousands systems, just don't dock in Deciat or jameson after trip).
This isn't hardcore mode, you don't loose your ranks, permits, upgrades, modules and materials.
Gankers aren't real problem.
The real problem is mindset (oh no i get ganked 1 time, all players are bad evil and toxic, galaxy is full of bad boys).
Second problem is fact, that you guys don't listen pvpers giving you advice (no me, I have't interdictor on any of my ships, I don't care pvp, but i haven't problem with few deaths).
I understand, that in some case you cannot defend yourself (for example, little DBX ganked by vette), but in other cases you can defend yourself if you listen some advices.
And no, you don't need cutter with all G5 modules to survive any pvp attack.
PS: Talking, that open is full of gankers, and this is mode only for pvpers is rubbish

It's a cognitive issue. Some pople mind being killed once or twice a year by a real person so much more than by an NPC. And for a small group of people it seems nearly a traumatic experience. It's also why some people debate how evil Open is without actually having played in open for more than an afternoon in literally years: they remember in horror the few credits they paid in insurance in 2015 and still get rage attacks from the memory.

If I went to Borann I would earn back all my insurance I ever paid in 15 min of whatever, been playing in Open since launch.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Amazingly, after 69 pages, some people would eventually realize gankers are after easy targets near starter systems, hotspots and engineer bases. And also, it's hard to duel a random guy when you chose the Colonia Quaker life. Who would have guessed open is vast enough to avoid anyone...

 

[Agony_Aunt]

It's a cognitive issue. Some pople mind being killed once or twice a year by a real person so much more than by an NPC. And for a small group of people it seems nearly a traumatic experience. It's also why some people debate how evil Open is without actually having played in open for more than an afternoon in literally years: they remember in horror the few credits they paid in insurance in 2015 and still get rage attacks from the memory.

If I went to Borann I would earn back all my insurance I ever paid in 15 min of whatever, been playing in Open since launch.

I think a large factor for some is how quickly they get attacked upon starting to play in open. Some people play for months before experiencing their first ganker and so they have had time to get a decent ship, learn the game, and be aware of the risk of it happening. It might be a shock the first time, but thanks to credits being easy these days, not a real loss. For those who get ganked in their first hours of play while they are still in a small weak ship, it can be a major turn off and they will be convinced that open is just a gankers paradise, because they are basing it on their experience. No matter how many posts they see from people saying its not that bad, they won't be convinced and probably assume the poster is just a ganker who wants fresh meat.

Its nowhere near as bad as GTA, where the first time i spawned in to a public session i was sniped before i had taken a step, which naturally soured me on public play in GTA, and now i only go into public when i'm not doing anything important. If i have business to run, i use a firewall block rule to force myself into a solo public lobby.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Amazingly, after 69 pages, some people would eventually realize gankers are after easy targets near starter systems, hotspots and engineer bases. And also, it's hard to duel a random guy when you chose the Colonia Quaker life. Who would have guessed open is vast enough to avoid anyone...

Maybe you should leave Colonia and return to the bubble then, you must be missing out on all of the fun!

 

[mondog]

I would love for an open/no PVP mode

Pvp isn't the problem, the problem is the C&P system is so poorly thought out that there's no risk to a ganker. Absolutely no risk what so ever. All the risk is on the person flying a non combat ship in Open. If there was an effective c&p system Open would be entirely different

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Maybe you should leave Colonia and return to the bubble then, you must be missing out on all of the fun!

I'd get multiple accounts so I could be anywher and smurf like a rat, but sadly I dont think it's good roleplay nor honest design.

 

[Bashy81]

It's missing the point of the fabric you wish to wrap yourself in. Other people want other things. Why worry about how they want to play the game if they are doing it away from you? Why worry about what Elite D is to other people? What do you lose if an Open PvE mode were created? The BGS is already effected by solo and PG so it's not really an answer. I have almost zero interest in PvP outside of the occasional CQC, so I don't play in open that much. Mobius is fairly empty most of the time for reasons I have already stated.

You can stick your fingers in your ears and sing Kumbaya but it doesnt make the dystopia of the game-world go away. Westerns & the wild-west (apologies to Kurosawa) were the inspirations behind the Star Wars OT & Elite alike. Westerns are often focused on the relationships that build up despite the quick-draw environment. So it is in ED; being aware that someone could attack at any moment if they choose, makes the interactions that much more interesting when they dont. There are many games out there that cater to casual fluffy gameplay. You dont need to attempt to hijack this one. The devs dont seem to have the time to develop & support existing features as it is, even without bowing to bandwagons to change ED into something it isnt. ED doesnt default to 'nice'; what you get depends on the nature of the NPC or CMDR in front of you, and how you interact with them. Adding elements like OpenPvE takes development down a path of homogonising towards things like WoW, taking away its unique proposition. That doesnt secure the future of ED, it only threatens it.

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

For those who get ganked in their first hours of play while they are still in a small weak ship, it can be a major turn off and they will be convinced that open is just a gankers paradise, because they are basing it on their experience.

More than that, even if you just lose a bit of cartographic data and a minor rebuy, this can often represent a major fraction of a new player’s time invested into the game. If I get a rebuy screen and lose the ”progress” of a couple of hours of gameplay it does not affect me much. If a new player loses the progress of two hours of road to riches, that may represent half of the time they invested into the game and a game where you lose half your progress due to a random person in a highly engineered ship just happened to be instanced with you would be a serious turn-off for many.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Oh yes, more word salad about dystopia and western genres and Star Wars so I can justify my poor roleplay choice of being Darth Vader in Elite Dangerous, instead of playing Red Dead Redemption or a Star Wars game.

Those nasty carebears can shove up their hard sci-fi space sim game and all it's realism up there. Angry teen Kylo Ren FTW.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

Oh yes, more word salad about dystopia and western genres and Star Wars so I can justify my poor roleplay choice of being Darth Vader in Elite Dangerous, instead of playing Red Dead Redemption or a Star Wars game.

Those nasty carebears can shove up their hard sci-fi space sim game and all it's realism up there. Angry teen Kylo Ren FTW.

Methinks your headspace has been ganked, Mastadon. Maybe try playing the forums in solo.

 

[FrankXjr[G911]]

plasma

 

[Sunyavadin]

you don't know if the attacker has any lore reasons

If I had money for every post I've seen complaining about getting killed "for no reason" by someone pledged to a rival power...

 

[Bashy81]

Oh yes, more word salad about dystopia and western genres and Star Wars so I can justify my poor roleplay choice of being Darth Vader in Elite Dangerous, instead of playing Red Dead Redemption or a Star Wars game.

Those nasty carebears can shove up their hard sci-fi space sim game and all it's realism up there. Angry teen Kylo Ren FTW.

I assume you would've debated my points if you could think of an argument to do so. But if sneering at your own creation is all you've got, fair enough.

You're wrong, ofc. I dont go in for the RP stuff, dealing with those people is a pain in the neck, they usually come across as one-dimensional fanatics. I'd take a pragmatist any day.

Besides, save a few notables, RPing the best pilot in the galaxy, or some kind of Dark Lord is usually the preserve of Solo/PG types. Their fantasy tends to pop fairly quick if they stray into Open. It's one of the things I like about it.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Besides, save a few notables, RPing the best pilot in the galaxy, or some kind of Dark Lord is usually the preserve of Solo/PG types. Their fantasy tends to pop fairly quick if they stray into Open. It's one of the things I like about it.

Roleplaying being a crappy pilot in a crappy ship is pretty much the way to go for me.

 

[Bashy81]

Roleplaying being a crappy pilot in a crappy ship is pretty much the way to go for me.

Now that's the kind of RP I could get on-board with, like it

 

[CoyoteXStarrk]

After reading the responses in the last few pages I am starting to see why so many people dislike PvPers. I had always thought it was due to the griefing and the ganking, but after actually talking to some of you and listening to you I can see there is quite a bit more to it than that.

 

[Bashy81]

Don't confuse griefer and ganker, they are different things.

Not when it comes to attention seeking and compensating their real life deficits.

So if you shoot someone without his consent in a space game that gives you all the tools to do that, you have real life deficits? Stop with those bullcrap analogies.
Armchair psychologists are even worse than carebears...

You name it. And?
Please just stop that silly Punch-and-Judy show. Both sides.
Btw, I have nothing against any form of shooting in Open, with or w/o consent. It's the ridiculous posturing of both sides on the forums what I'm talking about.

Assuming personal shortcomings of people who shoot others in a space shooty game is a strange way to precede a claim that you're not against any form of shooting in said space shooty game.

Wow, you made it to sentence 3. Congratulation! Sentence 4 was too hard for you, I get that. Next time I'll post in twitter format...

And it's not ridiculous posturing to claim to be NOT against shooting, immediately after condemning people at a personal level for choosing to shoot?
You missed or ignored the eloquent point being made, and then accused the other of missing the point. Which to my eyes is further ridiculous posturing.
So congratulations, you win the hypocrisy award for the day, quite an achievement for such a keenly contested award in this place.

 

[Rubbernuke]

David (not that one) has it right:

 

[CNC drill press]

I never ganked anyone. I just don't want people in Open who don't like the concept of Open. Don't like Open? Great, do something else.

"who don't like mine the concept of Open"

Here, fixed that for You.

As for pvp switch - it will interfere with pirating, unfortunately. Sill i think better than open & solo. More people visible.

 

[Kloppage Time]

I guess to some people the definitions changed, but no, that is not what it means to many. It is also an unworkable definition: you don't know if the attacker has any lore reasons. The idea that whether the incident is a gank or not relies on the proper explanation of actions is a bit odd. Most Cmdr have very little idea what the state of a system is, which factions are there and so on. If you were shipping weapons to a dictatorship I oppose, just because a mission paid you well, there is ample lore reason to destroy you.

More importantly: the idea that space is dark, cruel and fundamentally violent and dangerous is the core of Elite. Anyone who read the ED novels and played the earlier games know that. The risk of people murdering you for no clear reason, outside the small pockets of secured space, is a basic reality in the lore. What 'open pve' people want is the opposite of the ED lore: a Space Trucker game where people honk and wave when they see each other, in perfect safety.

It's fine if people want thst, to each his own. But people who care for 'elite lore': open is the place to be. Not space trucker Valhalla.

"If you were shipping weapons to a dictatorship I oppose, just because a mission paid you well, there is ample lore reason to destroy you..."

Yeah, every time someone attacks me in Open, it's usually down to comprehensive & unequivocal lore-based reasons such as this!!