Have no comments - just see the bug report in the thresd. 3 exceptions from normal BGS in row

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/403774-HUGE-Bug-in-BGS-expansion-20LY-lt-w-o-investment-8th-to-the-system-previous-expansion-was-farther

We expanded from Los to Kopernik completely errorously!
1. More, than 20 LY in one step
2. 8th in the system
3. No retreats were in the target system - it was full (7 factions)
4. Previous expansion was farther with investment - to Fartwell. And we bypassed Kopernik during it!

It's better 4 me to comment this later - do not want to go in ban, my speech should be strictly censored...
 
Yes, that does seem odd. I seem to remember something similar being reported recently. Long range expansion to a system with 7 factions. It was probably reported in one of the discord channels.

The fact that you went past it with an investment makes it even stranger. Maybe FD has changed the rules yet again, but that usually only happens after a major update.

And yes, not commenting is a wise choice. I find it useful to count to 1000 in hexadecimal before commenting.
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
We have had >20LY expansions without investment to the point where I was thinking it might be normal. Not as an 8th faction though



And failing to suppress the urge to be childish about Fartwell.

Anyone else seen odd expansions and want to comment.
 
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Very interesting - I would have expected Pergamon or Kojeara in preference to Kopernik - maybe invasion doesn't necessarily pick the closest... oh, hold on - I'm not sure either Pergamon or Kopernik have any non-native factions which aren't either pending, active or recovering from a conflict already. That might explain why Kopernik... ooh, that's going to make actually planning invasion targets tricky, you could really end up anywhere in range at that rate.

The rest looks like a fairly standard expansion-by-invasion. If you want to stay in Kopernik, beat Pekoe Growers Association ... if you'd rather leave, make sure you lose that war quickly and convincingly.

You can prevent expansion-by-invasion by having a conflict pending when the expansion completes. Everyone else in Colonia pretty much does that anyway accidentally - this is what happens when you have ridiculously precise BGS control ;) So on 17 Dec you had an Election pending in Mriya, got the Investment rather than invasion, and then your next expansion had the range to reach Farwell. This time, no conflict pending, so you get to invade.
 
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Ian, but we already bypassed all the systems mentioned during previous expansion! How happened, that now we already ARE in Farwell, not Kopernik? It should NOT be buggy, according to prev. experience. I was ready to be 8th at first, but not second expansion attempt...

P.S. Special thanks 4 upper comments of pity and support. Nearly everybody, posting here (no exception 4 me) are not a bit children, maybe, large and old - childish noises is not an offence. However, remember, that children may be the most cruel creatures (I know tis exactly), and I wish you not 2 be on my place w\o such knowledge...

offtop a bit 4 showing this... (spoiler, non professional translarion)

Grandma, you are so old! Will you die?
Yes...
And you'll be under ground?
Yes
Will you come back?
No...
And after this I finally start 2 play with your sewing machine!
 
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Ian, but we already bypassed all the systems mentioned during previous expansion!
Yes - expansion to a system which already has seven requires very particular conditions. I think this is only the tenth time it's happened in Colonia, and it may never have happened elsewhere, but this one is consistent with what I've observed in the other nine and in the 2.4 changelog

On the 17 December, you had an expansion. But at this time, you had an Election pending in Mriya (live on 19th), so you couldn't invade the closer systems. You went into Investment on 18 December.

On 4 January, you had an expansion. You had already Invested for added range, and you had a War pending in Sollaro (live on 6th), so you both didn't need to invade and couldn't invade. Farwell was the closest system with fewer than 7 factions, so you went there.

This time, you had an expansion, but no conflicts pending or active. So, this time you can invade, going for what appears to be the closest system with a fightable faction.
 
Ian, first of all, sorry 4 possible mistakes from T9. Your theory is not showing exactly, why we are not in Meretrida, or Pergamon. We passed 3 systems, each having a fightable faction. At least, with election. My opinion it's just a bug. When rules are working 2 times normally, and another on the 3rd - there are not rules at all...
 
Ian, first of all, sorry 4 possible mistakes from T9. Your theory is not showing exactly, why we are not in Meretrida, or Pergamon. We passed 3 systems, each having a fightable faction. At least, with election. My opinion it's just a bug. When rules are working 2 times normally, and another on the 3rd - there are not rules at all...
I was certainly surprised that it was Kopernik, too. My theory for that is that just as your invading faction has to be able to start a conflict, so does the faction you invade to fight. It would make sense, as the "no pending conflicts" rule was introduced to stop factions being in two conflicts at once.

Meretrida: the only non-native faction above 5% (or 7%?) there is UCA, who are already in a war elsewhere

Pergamon: Winged Hussars or Colonia Council. Both are recovering from Elections which ended on 27th.

Kojeara: Junkyard Dogs and Tenjin Reclamation are both native. Colonia Research Department has an active Election in Tenjin. Colonia Council, as before, recovering from Election. I guess Tenjin Pioneers could have been eligible - either their influence is too high or there's a rule that you can't attack the controlling faction with an invasion?

As the requirement not to have existing conflicts only came in during 2.4, and the only other case since then where the expanding faction *didn't* have a conflict pending is the ongoing invasion of Nomads into Tir ... this is of course just a theory.

EDIT: Actually, I've got a better theory for "why not Meretrida" - you retreated from there on 26 October, which is I think recent enough to be covered by the "systems you've previously retreated from are deprioritised for future expansions" rule, since you did start fighting Pekoe GA at only 4%.

Then Pergamon: Jaques and Explorer's Nation are still recovering from an Election, Galcop had a war until the 27th Jan, and Canonn had an Election until the 28th

Then the other Kojeara factions: PaX are in a war at the moment, and KoCK had one on the 28th.

So, that would make it:
Meretrida: eligible (Diggidiggi Mining Services) but deprioritised due to earlier retreat.
Pergamon: no non-native factions not pending, active or recovering conflict already
Kojeara: no non-native factions not pending, active or recovering conflict already (except for the controlling faction, and I think it's reasonable to theorise that you can't hit them directly with an invasion)
Kopernik: eligible, closest after the three above considered.
 
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Goose4291

Banned
Wasn't there a bit of blurb a while back where you can have 8 factions, but only for the period of a war between one of the incumbents and the newer group, the loser of which is thrown out of the system?
 
Wasn't there a bit of blurb a while back where you can have 8 factions, but only for the period of a war between one of the incumbents and the newer group, the loser of which is thrown out of the system?
Afaik the confusion is that that explanation was given regarding the previous iteration of expansion mechanics - not all that long before 2.1 when it was changed - and yes it did happen a whole lot at that time. The peaceful expansion limit though was five factions. Native factions could be forced out - and some still haven't retreated back home.

With the new mechanic though, the nature of investment made it seem like this was no longer a thing and...well we've never seen it happen, and seemingly a lot of others haven't. We've seen a lot of the alternative though, where a faction runs out of <7 faction systems in range, goes into investment and then extends range. It requires a quite unusual (for most groups) circumstance for invasion war to happen now it would seem.

Or they changed something, idk.

Edit: "That explanation" (44:44 if the timestamp link doesn't work) https://youtu.be/y5DGyG6Qwvk?t=44m44s

Edit2: ...dated two months prior to the change to expansion mechanics in 2.1.

Trying to dig up the explanation for actual invasion war rather than displacement.

Ok here we go: https://youtu.be/gEtHu3AXw2Q?t=2h47m

From this it seems like both outcomes are possible...so I think it might have just been experience (that is, it never seemed to happen anymore) that suggested invasion war was out.
Not sure if there's a little bit of some other livestream that sheds light on the subject, but I think I'm done scrounging for today.
 
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The 20ly range for expansion is not an exact figure, I've seen several expansions go up to 22.5ly without that faction ever having Investment. You don't mention what the range was other than >20ly but if it was less than 23ly I'm not surprised.

Becoming the eighth faction in a system is not unheard of either, there's a system like that near my home system. Unfortunately I don't monitor that area so I don't know how it happened but my theory is that it was the only system in range where the faction wasn't already present. Why their Expansion didn't fail to Investment I don't know.
 
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