Heat Sink synthesis should require materials not micro-resources.

Allchemyst

Allchemyst
What's all this talk about "preparation"?

Trading takes no preparation whatshowever...

Combat takes no preparation whatshowever (At least most of it, by which I mean PVE, exploration being entirely PVE as well)...

Unless you want to gain an edge over other commanders, nothing in the game requires actual preparation... Why should Exploration, of all things, suddenly require some?


How about we talk about consistency instead?

Either we want things to get both harder and more tedious, in which case we'll have to stockpile on AFMU-replenishing mats and limpet-building mats, all of which will require a rebalance of the maximum material capacity, or we just agree explorers should be self-sufficient, because it makes sense that technology aimed at exploration woudl work that way and because it will allow the only people who really needed this feature to use it properly. [Edit : When did I figure we could synthesize SRVs? Maybe I'm seeing the future!]

I mean, we can synthesize top-of-the-line heat-seeking missiles and high-tech railgun ammo that perform 30% better than factory ones from regular planet-pebbles, but not a hunk of heat-dumping metal?


Because you know what? we could serve the same tedious "preparation" argument to any other type of synthesis.

What? you're crying because you can't synthesize ammo from iron and sulphur anymore in a far away CZ for a CG? Tough luck, you just had to come prepared!
 
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Limoncello Lizard

Limoncello Lizard
Teh Smoo said:
Could be a dedicated slot.
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That is a good idea, because it allows for it to be upgraded. Plus, it doesn't give any particular ship an advantage.

But limiting the number of programs? No, that's a limit for no purpose other than favouring a ship with a zillion free slots like the Anaconda. It's a boring ship with too many ridiculous advantages already, it doesn't need more
 

space voyager

space voyager
He he he, going into an unknown should require some preparation. Buying an apple and selling it not as much.

But most likely preparation will not be needed as the universe will stay benign.
 

Tomx

Tomx
Hello again Rusty, my thoughts from the Tenebris, currently heading towards Magellan's Star and all going well. I left with 3 heatsinks and have only used two, both fired accidentally, in 400kly of travel (admittedly mostly away from the core so not that many binaries). FDev have changed the hyperspace exit mechanics so you're highly unlikely/won't end up between two binary stars or in the cone of a neutron star or white dwarf. This either makes space "too safe" or long endurance exploration practicable depending on your ponit of view. You may toast yourself using the FSD too early by accident but that's about all.

Ultimately leaving your front door and starting walking requires no preparation, but you won't make it up Everest.

Similarly without putting a reasonable amount of effort into optimising your ship there are exteme parts of the galaxy that you won't be able to get to.

Exploring half the galaxy (or at least a tiny fraction of most of it) requires I would suggest more care and attention than most combat encounters, there is an element of boredom but maintaining your concentration through that and not making small mistakes that will accumulate is where the skill is. If you mess up in combat you jump back to the station losing that days pay and can be back at it in a few minutes. A small mistake can be easily repaired in the systems station. Were I too crash I'd loose 8 months of rewards and be transported more than 30kly from where I currently am, a small mistake will need to be lived with for months. The Galaxy isn't that benign on the scale of thousands of jumps. That said as mentioned, I really don't think heat sink synthesis is a big deal for explorers currently - providing you keep your ship cool (power down useless systems - like shields) and have it reasonably optimised for heat (low heat modules- A grade powerplant/consider it when engineering things).

Ranulph Fines said something along the lines of in Polar Exploration decisions made on day 23 kill you on day 65, it's similar to this in ED exploration.

Don't get me wrong if it can be done without getting shot at I'll probably top up my heatsinks before getting anywhere near the main bit of the bubble but that will be to help with evasion and probably also not necessary! Last time the iridium wing had trouble locking on to me even when I was landing right in front of them:)!

It occurs to me that everyone is considering heat sink sythesis in terms of our own technology when we know that 2.4 is all about Thargoids and it has repeatedly been stressed that their technology is different to ours and will require different techniques and weapons - perhaps heatsinks will have a larger role in this, thargoids are supposed to be much cooler than we are. Stealth being more important? Anti thargoid weapons producing lots of heat?

As for the anaconda being boring, each to their own there are other ships you can take but for long range, long duration, exploration at the extremes of the galaxy there's a reason why the great ED explorers fly them. I don't think *I* could have made this trip in any other ship, aside from anything else I'd have gone nuts. If that's boring then fine - but getting 65kly from sol and finding I couldn't make the jump I'd planned on doing would have been worse. Plus I got to do it wihtout imagining my holo-me's smelly flightsuit after 8 months in the same cockpit. Yes Katie has enough slots for everything I wanted to take with me (and beds, and presumably showers). If you'd rather have a more "exciting" (aka less practical for this type of exploring) ship then sacraficing slots, smelling:), and compromising other things is pretty realistic.

Just my thoughts, back to jumping.

P.S. One thing that I do do think would be more appropriate would be to change the "life support" sysnthesis materials to something water containing. Reasoning - As far as I'm aware the main assumptions in the ED galaxy are that fusion power is easily available and faster than light travel is possible. The closest we have to long duration spaceflight in the modern day is probably the nuclear submarine - they remove the CO2 from their atmospheres by scrubbing it out with chemical scrubbers, in the near future it's likely that these will be able to be reconstitued by heating so with a reactor CO2 removal is likely to cease being a problem. That leaves Oxygen production - produced either from stored chemicals or electrolysis of water - with our fusion reactors electrolysing water would seem to be the way to go - it'll also produce hydrogen which most of ED uses as a fuel so that would be a great side benefit, finally producing dry air is going to lead to a very uncomfortable environment over many months so it would have to be humidified and the crew will need hydration - even if waste is recycled there will still be losses in the metabolic process. So there will be a direct requriment for water. Therefore I'd suggest that what would be requried for synthesis of more "life support" would be something water containing - given the number of icy bodies in ED ice (or some icy crystal material) would seem to be the most appropriate).
 
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Chrystoph

Chrystoph
Limoncello Lizard said:
That is a good idea, because it allows for it to be upgraded. Plus, it doesn't give any particular ship an advantage.

But limiting the number of programs? No, that's a limit for no purpose other than favouring a ship with a zillion free slots like the Anaconda. It's a boring ship with too many ridiculous advantages already, it doesn't need more
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It's a commander intentionally misrepresenting the argument to rant against a ship at the cost of derailing the argument.
 
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Limoncello Lizard

Limoncello Lizard
Chrystoph said:
It's a commander intentionally misrepresenting the argument to rant against a ship at the cost of derailing the argument.
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Maybe I have misunderstood your suggestion.

A. If you are suggesting that we have a standard synthesis module that is expandable E through A plus engineering, then that would be fine.

B. If you are suggesting that we have to use an existing module slot to get limited synthesis and have to use even more module slots to get more, then I think it's a terrible idea.

I'm not ranting against the Anaconda. But if you are trying to limit ships with fewer module slots, only one ship ends up being used.
 

Chrystoph

Chrystoph
Limoncello Lizard said:
Maybe I have misunderstood your suggestion.

A. If you are suggesting that we have a standard synthesis module that is expandable E through A plus engineering, then that would be fine.
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My apologies, and definitely something like this, although what I am suggesting is that the different levels of synthesizer have a number of... card slots or such that each represent one synthesis class. You would be limited to a certain number of classes, having to tailor the ship to a purpose.

I had been thinking that using an Optional Compartment to expand your selection would be a viable choice, but, on reflection, find your suggestion more acceptable.
 

NW3

NW3
I agree with the OP; at least the basic heat sinks should use materials that are readily available far from the bubble. I like the idea of card slots also.
 

Genar-Hofoen

Genar-Hofoen
Add my support for basic heatsinks to be able to be synthesized from non-manufactured materials.

The upcoming changes to synthesis to mitigate PvP spamming/manufacturing during battle - i.e. 1) Synthesis taking time, and 2) Synthesis being halted upon ship taking damage - should make any arguments against heatsink synthesis using non-maufactured materials, moot.
 

space voyager

space voyager
Limoncello Lizard said:
Try firing them. You'll find you have 3. Like I said when you quoted, one in the barrel and two spare.
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As far as I know, everything is presented in ready/stock format. That 1 HS is ready, the next one must reload. Same for chaff, limpets (where the number of "ready limpets" depends on controller), weapons with ammo...
 
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CMDR Rusty Dog

CMDR Rusty Dog
Genar-Hofoen said:
Add my support for basic heatsinks to be able to be synthesized from non-manufactured materials.

The upcoming changes to synthesis to mitigate PvP spamming/manufacturing during battle - i.e. 1) Synthesis taking time, and 2) Synthesis being halted upon ship taking damage - should make any arguments against heatsink synthesis using non-maufactured materials, moot.
Click to expand...


I think that's the best way to do it. Basic synthesis to require materials that you can get planet-side and not so for Standard and Premium.
Yes that's perfect !
 
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