Help me understand what is it you get to do after getting longer jump ranges.

Kenaz · Feb 3, 2016

OK to summarize so far some actually constructive ideas NOT about jump ranges:

Regions/Systems need more diversity and heterogeneity
-Everything looks the same/feels the same so players feel no reason that it should take time from point A to a far-away but identical system at point B

Ship Transport (to CZ/HazRes)
Amazon module delivery
Module Storage
Crafting/Engineer
CQC needs to be more connected to the main game
-Join up through galnet menu. observer mode at space stations. gamble on matches? earn corporate sponsorships?
Semi-Auto Pilot (not scooping, not interdiction)
Allow tasks during jumps (galnet, gal map, stats, firegroups)
Preload during FSD charging.
Bring personal ships to CQC (or equivalent) 16 vs 16
-maybe insurance on destruction
-maybe small daily entrance fee
-maybe full voucher Cr
-maybe reduced voucher Cr from corporate sponsor/advertisers

Galnet menu accessible VR emulated System with HazRes, Res, Nav, HICZ, LICZ. Join your friends from anywhere for some pew-pew
more simultaneous local mini-CGs

CTCParadox · Feb 3, 2016

Kenaz said:
Hey, that's not fair, you totally edited this after I posted.

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Right, so what part of the game is it that you enjoy playing? Res, CZ, BH, Newb Squashing, piracy? I mean, you're not flying your FDL 100ly to mine some ores...

I currently fly a FAS because it has an acceptable jump range.

I normally just RES grind (because the money is good) for which jump range is not required (but then again I think RES/CZ grinding is a horrible game mechanic which needs to change). Though I started some PVE piracy for some variety.

I just think players should be encouraged to move around the bubble (which CG seem to want to encourage) not encouraged to stay in one place. Making travel extremely tedious (which very short jump ranges causes) definitely encourages people to just stay put.

What is BH btw?

CMDR CTCParadox

Kenaz · Feb 3, 2016

CTCParadox said:
I currently fly a FAS because it has an acceptable jump range.

I normally just RES grind (because the money is good) for which jump range is not required (but then again I think RES/CZ grinding is a horrible game mechanic which needs to change). Though I started some PVE piracy for some variety.

I just think players should be encouraged to move around the bubble (which CG seem to want to encourage) not encouraged to stay in one place. Making travel extremely tedious (which very short jump ranges causes) definitely encourages people to just stay put.

What is BH btw?

CMDR CTCParadox

bounty hunting.
now we're getting somewhere... right forgot about adding CG to the list. editing now

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OK so if you like to Res/CZ grind or PvE piracy, do you need to move alot if you just find a good system to call home? (yes is fine, if you explain why)
CG is an issue, but what if they had more simultaneous mini-cgs spread across the bubble?
You might not get to all of them, but it increases the chances one might land within 50ly from you... say every month or two.

SirAdelaide · Feb 3, 2016

Ok, here's another suggestion.

Ditch the potted hyperspace animation, and make hyperspace a mini game. Make a misty alternate dimension to navigate, with navigation beacons being the only solid markers. Stars and other massive bodies would be presented as partiality formed objects. Like supercruise, you could go anywhere, but accidentally come out at the wrong place if not paying attention. Distance travelled would be limited by total available fuel, with better FSD burning fuel more slowly, giving greater range.

Since lore says Thargoids attack while in Witchspace, this suggestion would tie in well with the future direction of the game (interdiction from Witchspace to normal space in some random star system). It would also make nav beacons mean something. Exploration would still be difficult, relying on manually timing drops to massive bodies rather than locking on to beacons.

CTCParadox · Feb 3, 2016

Kenaz said:
bounty hunting.
now we're getting somewhere... right forgot about adding CG to the list. editing now

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OK so if you like to Res/CZ grind or PvE piracy, do you need to move alot if you just find a good system to call home? (yes is fine, if you explain why)
CG is an issue, but what if they had more simultaneous mini-cgs spread across the bubble?
You might not get to all of them, but it increases the chances one might land within 50ly from you... say every month or two.

You also forgot Powerplay which is probably the play style that short jump ranges punishes the most. Though I personally do not play it.
What is Bounty Hunting in your opinion? Most people just use the word to refer to RES grinding.

RES grinding obviously does not require much movement.
PvE piracy only requires short jumps between target and home systems.

disclaimer: I think RES/CZ grind are bad mechanics that encourage people to stay put too much. Though at least CZs appear and disappear after a while.

CMDR CTCParadox

DragoonKnight · Feb 3, 2016

Kenaz said:
right, so jump range discussion in the other thread.

Here were some other suggestions from the other thread more applicable here:
1) more CGs nearby
2) more variation in loading screen video/sound
3) start buffering destination system data sooner.

So would it help if you could "jump" straight to a dedicated PvP system from the Galnet Menu?
1 virtual system for PvPers, by PvPers, to PvP with all your favorite PvP buddies and PvP nemesiseses?

No. That is a bad solution.
I dont want to pvp. I have 90 minutes to play and want to spend it undermining. That often requires a 100ly trip. I would prefer if that trip did not take 30 minutes.

Why not just give us ship transport? Then we can do our pew pew in the bubble and the explorers do not get depressed about an FDL getting a lousy 10% buff to jump range

Kenaz · Feb 3, 2016

SirAdelaide said:
Ok, here's another suggestion.

Ditch the potted hyperspace animation, and make hyperspace a mini game. Make a misty alternate dimension to navigate, with navigation beacons being the only solid markers. Stars and other massive bodies would be presented as partiality formed objects. Like supercruise, you could go anywhere, but accidentally come out at the wrong place if not paying attention. Distance travelled would be limited by total available fuel, with better FSD burning fuel more slowly, giving greater range.

Since lore says Thargoids attack while in Witchspace, this suggestion would tie in well with the future direction of the game (interdiction from Witchspace to normal space in some random star system). It would also make nav beacons mean something. Exploration would still be difficult, relying on manually timing drops to massive bodies rather than locking on to beacons.

I'm not sure if the average person would tolerate it if everyone suddenly had to chose manual witchspace tunneling. But it might be an interesting mechanic if you got a thargoid FSD drive or chose an alternate FSD model.

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CTCParadox said:
You also forgot Powerplay which is probably the play style that short jump ranges punishes the most. Though I personally do not play it.
What is Bounty Hunting in your opinion? Most people just use the word to refer to RES grinding.

RES grinding obviously does not require much movement.
PvE piracy only requires short jumps between target and home systems.

disclaimer: I think RES/CZ grind are bad mechanics that encourage people to stay put too much. Though at least CZs appear and disappear after a while.

CMDR CTCParadox

Right powerplay... ship transport might help with that?
I guess PvP BH is camping near a star and scanning passerby-er? i get your point though.

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DragoonKnight said:
No. That is a bad solution.
I dont want to pvp. I have 90 minutes to play and want to spend it undermining. That often requires a 100ly trip. I would prefer if that trip did not take 30 minutes.

Why not just give us ship transport? Then we can do our pew pew in the bubble and the explorers do not get depressed about an FDL getting a lousy 10% buff to jump range

Right, that was just to get the ball rolling after some false starts and trolling. Discussions evolved quite a bit now, including ship transport

CTCParadox · Feb 3, 2016

Kenaz said:
Right powerplay... ship transport might help with that?
I guess PvP BH is camping near a star and scanning passerby-er? i get your point though.

Just my opinion and not directly related to jump issues, but Bounty Hunting should involve hunting.
We have the top bounties tab in the news but between instancing/timezone issues and the short range of combat ships I doubt it gets used very often.

I also have trouble understanding why combat ships in particular should suffer such short jump range and what kind of balance that brings to the game.

I would really like to see Elite open up with lots of events from the BGS getting people moving around and congregating in a really dynamic way.

CMDR CTCParadox

Kenaz · Feb 3, 2016

CTCParadox said:
Just my opinion and not directly related to jump issues, but Bounty Hunting should involve hunting.
We have the top bounties tab in the news but between instancing/timezone issues and the short range of combat ships I doubt it gets used very often.

I also have trouble understanding why combat ships in particular should suffer such short jump range and what kind of balance that brings to the game.

I would really like to see Elite open up with lots of events from the BGS getting people moving around and congregating in a really dynamic way.

CMDR CTCParadox

They might need to add NPC bounties in the Tab. I've looked at it a few times, but Just because you go to the last "known" location, doesn't mean they even exist in the game, let alone the instancing issue or in a dock. Crime and punishment also have some tweaking issues, but yeah, right now, it's not quite related to this topic.

I do think FD has future opportunities to bring parts of the BGS into the foreground. Diverse cultures, increase role of minor factions and more integration of major corporations. There should be some benefits to being a wandering nomad (rare trade/ exploration ranks), but I feel like picking a home system (minor faction or not) should also be rewarding somehow.

Don_Von_Hulio · Feb 3, 2016

Consider Elements as "Time Units". And the more time you spend collecting the ones required to give you increased jump range you get more Time Units in the Time Bank to use when you want to get someplace quicker.

Kenaz · Feb 3, 2016

Don_Von_Hulio said:
Consider Elements as "Time Units". And the more time you spend collecting the ones required to give you increased jump range you get more Time Units in the Time Bank to use when you want to get someplace quicker.

Kind of sounds like synthesis, or crafting. but partial credit, cuz it's still about jump range and not about how to 'jump' right into destination activity.
see what i did there?

CTCParadox · Feb 3, 2016

Kenaz said:
They might need to add NPC bounties in the Tab. I've looked at it a few times, but Just because you go to the last "known" location, doesn't mean they even exist in the game, let alone the instancing issue or in a dock. Crime and punishment also have some tweaking issues, but yeah, right now, it's not quite related to this topic.

I do think FD has future opportunities to bring parts of the BGS into the foreground. Diverse cultures, increase role of minor factions and more integration of major corporations. There should be some benefits to being a wandering nomad (rare trade/ exploration ranks), but I feel like picking a home system (minor faction or not) should also be rewarding somehow.

I do think the context in which we think about jump ranges is important though.
For each profession how far does it need to travel to do it's job?
Is the current way the profession works even a good way? etc.

CMDR CTCParadox

Kenaz · Feb 3, 2016

CTCParadox said:
I do think the context in which we think about jump ranges is important though.
For each profession how far does it need to travel to do it's job?
Is the current way the profession works even a good way? etc.

CMDR CTCParadox

Absolutely, although people have different opinions on what a certain profession encompasses... and that should be discussed in the other thread.
I think there's some really good ideas on how some of the underlying issues, at least partially, can be addressed with changes other than changing jump ranges, don't you think?
Some of them might even improve gameplay in general even if you're not a combat pilot.

edit: Started a rolling cumulative list in quotes at bottom of opening post

Asp Explorer · Feb 3, 2016

Kenaz said:
-give players a home base

Players can already call any system they like home. They can sign up for any of the Powers they like. They can even form their own groups and have their group act as part of the BGS.

Kenaz said:
guild hall…

Please, no thanks. How could players usefully have a "guild hall" in a game like Elite? What would it achieve?

DragoonKnight · Feb 3, 2016

Asp Explorer said:
Why don't aircraft carriers fly at mach 8?

Have you heard of CQC?

Are you aware of the fact that aircraft carriers have an almost unlimited range and are able to cruise faster than most large civilian ships?
If we are doing an aircraft carrier analogy then a Corvette should be faster, carry 128T of fuel, full weapons and armor fit and have a good jump range

CTCParadox · Feb 3, 2016

Kenaz said:
Absolutely, although people have different opinions on what a certain profession encompasses... and that should be discussed in the other thread.
I think there's some really good ideas on how some of the underlying issues, at least partially, can be addressed with changes other than changing jump ranges, don't you think?
Some of them might even improve gameplay in general even if you're not a combat pilot.

edit: Started a rolling cumulative list in quotes at bottom of opening post

Indeed, for example different types of FSDs specialised for different tasks (fuel efficient, fast spool, special fuel/military drive etc.) could allow more variety in FSD fitting.
This way you could give combat ships the range to get around the bubble with less gnashing of teeth but without suddenly becoming exploration ships (maybe special fuel is only manufactured in the bubble).

CMDR CTCParadox

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Asp Explorer said:
Please, no thanks. How could players usefully have a "guild hall" in a game like Elite? What would it achieve?

True. I mean all players are already part of a guild called the Pilot's Federation.

CMDR CTCParadox

Kenaz · Feb 3, 2016

Asp Explorer said:
Players can already call any system they like home. They can sign up for any of the Powers they like. They can even form their own groups and have their group act as part of the BGS.

Please, no thanks. How could players usefully have a "guild hall" in a game like Elite? What would it achieve?

Yeah, OK, probably more explanation needed.

Powerplay is IMO poorly executed. sure, if you want, there's reddit forums or whatever, but that's about it. It's feels so loosely tied together.

Maybe I actually just don't know about player own groups (i mean i know they exist, but what's the mechanism) you don't register to it like you do with powers. No where does it say (CMDR XYZ Edmund Power. WXYZ Minor Faction.) From what I understand. It's just a name, and you support it by doing BB missions from them. Do you gain any benefits? Can you actually join? or switch minor factions? You could submit a player faction and then not do anything and the BGS will go on. Really, what is the reward other than the name you once picked showing up on the minor faction list (maybe someone can educate me) just feels like players don't really have any skin in the game.

Isn't a minor faction effectively the same as a guild?

What would it achieve? i don't know. Module storage? cargo storage? Synthesis/crafting material storage? Pay money/delivery cargo for station upgrades? discounts?

EDIT: I mean would that make you feel better? If i called it a "minor faction bar/lounge" vs a "guild hall"?

Asp Explorer · Feb 3, 2016

DragoonKnight said:
Are you aware of the fact that aircraft carriers have an almost unlimited range and are able to cruise faster than most large civilian ships?

Unlimited? It's some point on 4pi r^2 within 0Ly.

DragoonKnight said:
If we are doing an aircraft carrier analogy then a Corvette should be faster, carry 128T of fuel, full weapons and armor fit and have a good jump range

Why? The Corvette is doing the exact same thing, except it's limited to a point subscribed within 4pi (r^3)/3 of it's current location and r of whatever it's jump range happens to be.

They both do the same thing.

Kenaz · Feb 3, 2016

DragoonKnight said:
jump range

Asp Explorer said:
jump range

other thread
minus 50 D.K.P. to both of you

DragoonKnight · Feb 3, 2016

Asp Explorer said:
Unlimited? It's some point on 4pi r^2 within 0Ly.

Why? The Corvette is doing the exact same thing, except it's limited to a point subscribed within 4pi (r^3)/3 of it's current location and r of whatever it's jump range happens to be.

They both do the same thing.

Each reactor on a Nimitz Class carrier makes 95 MW of power. I'd like to see that on the corvette.
A carrier can travel for 20 years without refueling. I'd like to see that on the corvette.
U.S. Navy ships are much faster than any civilian ship. I'd like to see the Corvette get a speed increase.
Maybe then you can talk about how they do the same thing.