Help me understand why I had to die

Been returning to the game after a long pause. I‘m really a bit out of touch with the flow of things, so I dabbled in different activities, trying to make some cash to grade up my Cutter. Since I heard painite mining was a good way right now, I gave it a try today. Went to the place, did the thing, all went nice and smooth.

As I was just about to find a good sell location (and stared at Inara on my tablet), my COVAS started to scream out about an incoming attack. Glancing at the radar (or whatever it‘s called), I noticed I was being attcked by a player. Threw my pips to engines, full spead ahead, and tried to boost out of the asteroid field like a madman in order to get into SC.

I‘d say it took about 10-15 seconds max before I stared at the rebuy screen, still not entirely able to grasp what had been going on.

It‘s okay. I‘m not bitter, just a bit frustrated. I knew there was a risk involved in playing in open. I can afford the buyback (still hurts). The pirate (let‘s call him that) landed a good hit, I had some 300 tons of painite in my hold at that time.

Thinking about the incident a bit later (with a cooler head), a few questions popped up in my mind. I hope some fellow pilots here can enlighten me, so that I can avoid possible mistakes the next time.

1. How did he find me? I SCed to the belt and popped out at a random point, venturing deeper into the belt with the conventional thrusters. Been in the belt somewhere between 2-3 hours. I was under the impression there is no way to find a ship like that, but I may be dead wrong of course. Or was he just lucky?

2. I think he used a Krait for the attack, projektiles looked like a shotgun (sorry, don’t know all the different guns yet). Until today I thought my (mediocre) engineered Cutter could take quite a beating, especially since I put most into its defensive capabilities (engineered A-grade-shields, non-prismatic though, 8 engineered shield boosters, module and hull reinforce package in the M-slots, ...). The speed at which he melted my shields and hull was HEARTBREAKING. What really baffled me, was that my FSD was disabled even before my shields went down half way, so I was basically done then. I always thought the shields had to come down before modules would take serious damage. Guess I‘m wrong there, too?

3. Other than having reacted a bit too late, what could I have done? Run at the first sign of a player popping in? Is a Cutter really THAT weak? Seriously, if I had been in a smaller ship, I‘d have been dead before I could say „Oh look, there‘s a...“. I never had the illusion that I could take a dedicated PVP fighter on in a dogfight or anything, but I really thought I could get away with a black eye if I wanted to.

All in all I‘m more frustrated than anything. The financial loss isn‘t the biggest deal, but the loss of time invested is (for me at least, since time is precious for me). Guess I‘ll stay out of open until I get a better picture of things and seriously upgraded my ship.

TLDR:
My Cutter melted like a snowball in hell and I‘d like to learn from my mistakes... whatever they were.
 
Not much advice to offer other than to pay (more) attention to your surroundings, it is easy to be complacent and experience of what can happen helps. It doesn't really matter why it happened, only that it did. Good on you for wanting solutions while remaining in Open, dealing with other players is the truly challenging part of the game, whether directly or indirectly :)
 
1. FSD can be disabled with missiles https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Containment_Missile
2. Shields of any power can be quickly destroyed by torpedoes with the Reverberating Cascade effect

I highly recommend using this setting for FSD https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Faster_Boot_Sequence_Frame_Shift_Drive. The jump range will decrease, but the reload speed will increase after being hit by Yuri Grom's rocket, which will give additional jump time (the rocket effect has a cooldown)
 
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Probably best to post the build.

Bottom line, though, is that a ship built for anything other than combat is always going to be at a serious disadvantage to a ship built for PvP.

I've managed to locate other ships in a ring using the Mk1 eyeball.
Just drop out in a likely spot, fly away from the ring and you can see mining lasers from a looong way away (maybe 40-50km?).
Never underestimate the effort people will make to rain on somebody else's parade.

Unfortunately, mining is one of those things where I ask myself how valuable my time is before deciding whether or not to play in Open.
If I'm just playing around, Open is fine.
If I'm serious about raising some credits with a prolonged session of mining, I don't want to waste my time by becoming somebody else's entertainment so I stay out of Open.
 
Been returning to the game after a long pause. I‘m really a bit out of touch with the flow of things, so I dabbled in different activities, trying to make some cash to grade up my Cutter. Since I heard painite mining was a good way right now, I gave it a try today. Went to the place, did the thing, all went nice and smooth.

As I was just about to find a good sell location (and stared at Inara on my tablet), my COVAS started to scream out about an incoming attack. Glancing at the radar (or whatever it‘s called), I noticed I was being attcked by a player. Threw my pips to engines, full spead ahead, and tried to boost out of the asteroid field like a madman in order to get into SC.

I‘d say it took about 10-15 seconds max before I stared at the rebuy screen, still not entirely able to grasp what had been going on.

It‘s okay. I‘m not bitter, just a bit frustrated. I knew there was a risk involved in playing in open. I can afford the buyback (still hurts). The pirate (let‘s call him that) landed a good hit, I had some 300 tons of painite in my hold at that time.

Thinking about the incident a bit later (with a cooler head), a few questions popped up in my mind. I hope some fellow pilots here can enlighten me, so that I can avoid possible mistakes the next time.

1. How did he find me? I SCed to the belt and popped out at a random point, venturing deeper into the belt with the conventional thrusters. Been in the belt somewhere between 2-3 hours. I was under the impression there is no way to find a ship like that, but I may be dead wrong of course. Or was he just lucky?

2. I think he used a Krait for the attack, projektiles looked like a shotgun (sorry, don’t know all the different guns yet). Until today I thought my (mediocre) engineered Cutter could take quite a beating, especially since I put most into its defensive capabilities (engineered A-grade-shields, non-prismatic though, 8 engineered shield boosters, module and hull reinforce package in the M-slots, ...). The speed at which he melted my shields and hull was HEARTBREAKING. What really baffled me, was that my FSD was disabled even before my shields went down half way, so I was basically done then. I always thought the shields had to come down before modules would take serious damage. Guess I‘m wrong there, too?

3. Other than having reacted a bit too late, what could I have done? Run at the first sign of a player popping in? Is a Cutter really THAT weak? Seriously, if I had been in a smaller ship, I‘d have been dead before I could say „Oh look, there‘s a...“. I never had the illusion that I could take a dedicated PVP fighter on in a dogfight or anything, but I really thought I could get away with a black eye if I wanted to.

All in all I‘m more frustrated than anything. The financial loss isn‘t the biggest deal, but the loss of time invested is (for me at least, since time is precious for me). Guess I‘ll stay out of open until I get a better picture of things and seriously upgraded my ship.

TLDR:
My Cutter melted like a snowball in hell and I‘d like to learn from my mistakes... whatever they were.
Good post !

Your armor and shielding may have been weak. Just because it is a big ship doesn't mean it is strong enough to withstand attack without some decent equipment and engineering, so advice would depend on how your ship was/is equipped.

Max pips to SYS might have given you a bit more time to extricate yourself, and then to jump to another system, rather than just supercruise away, but your attacker had the benefit of surprise. They do this by sneaking up on you from behind with a cold ship (a heatsink fired off and some modules shut down gives them time to sneak an attack). Unfortunately, the mining laser fire shows up from a huge distance if someone is in the same instance as you, looking for ships to pirate. Sounds like he got "lucky" in finding you.
 
You were in a PVE mining ship, they were in a PVP killing ship. Thats the long and short of it. You can build a 'better' ship but thats a choice / trade off you make if you want.

FSD can be knocked out by engineering effect or PowerPlay missile and have to reset with 100%. Can also 'malfunction' due to overall damage or heat damage even and need to 'reset', can happen at 99% I think but much more chance below 80%.

How did they find you? Partially luck, they dropped out of SC and flew around, or the game instanced you together in the first place. Youd been there a while it seems so couldnt have been a low wake signal they followed from SC.

Avoidance - meh. Get out of the Asteroid Field / Mass Lock zone before checking Inara so can jump immediately. Best practice is always to have a route set for one more jump or leave left panel highlighting a System to jump to in emergency. Lots of Point Defence can help with the missiles, but if you were afk it wouldnt have been the hardest target anyway and could get close.

Use Inara while mining, I know its not as up to date as it was or the market is more volatile so thats not as easy as used to be.

Break immesion, log off or into solo while Inara and then back into Open for journey if you want.

Shotgun - Frag Cannons, awesome weapon with engineering. Can strip shields and hull, not so good for targeting FSD drive though so must have been combo.

If you want to learn techniques in general, there a few gankers teach evasion skills and optional PVP.
 
If you're in a mining ship, make sure you are well shielded and have capable engines - you're not there to fight them (unless they are a NPC and you can take them on), you're there to get away with your money.

For comparison, my Mining Cutter setup for laser mining.
 
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It's why I play soylo in the first place. I think the combat system in this game is lame enough not to even bother. Yes the dogfights in themselve I find amazing. But why the hell should I risk a 770M ship with a rebuy of 40 for a pathetic 100k bounty voucher? So let alone going PvP having to face chanceless people with their OP ships who have got nothing better to do than to ruin my session?
 
..The pirate (let‘s call him that) landed a good hit, I had some 300 tons of painite in my hold at that time.....
Let's not :)

No extortion attempt, no hatchbreakers, no pirate.

Unfortunately all those goodies that were in your hold got destroyed with your ship.
300 tons of painite lost, brings a tear to the eye of a real pirate.

Not sure there is much you could have done in those circumstances, you were caught off guard and unable to escape.
I always assume other commanders are hostile, and re-evaluate once out of their weapon range.
Running at the first sight is (imho) entirely sensible.

I suppose mining in a wing may offer some advantage, more lookouts and always the chance you could escape whilst they destroy your wingmate?
 
I would recommend "don't get mad, get even", but since you can't find the guy's squadron (these jerks usualy run in packs) and their home station and UA bomb it anymore...

My condolences on your loss. It's always painful to eat a rebuy on a big ship, perhaps more-so to see your hard-earned work go to waste.
 
Been returning to the game after a long pause. I‘m really a bit out of touch with the flow of things, so I dabbled in different activities, trying to make some cash to grade up my Cutter. Since I heard painite mining was a good way right now, I gave it a try today. Went to the place, did the thing, all went nice and smooth.

As I was just about to find a good sell location (and stared at Inara on my tablet), my COVAS started to scream out about an incoming attack. Glancing at the radar (or whatever it‘s called), I noticed I was being attcked by a player. Threw my pips to engines, full spead ahead, and tried to boost out of the asteroid field like a madman in order to get into SC.

I‘d say it took about 10-15 seconds max before I stared at the rebuy screen, still not entirely able to grasp what had been going on.

It‘s okay. I‘m not bitter, just a bit frustrated. I knew there was a risk involved in playing in open. I can afford the buyback (still hurts). The pirate (let‘s call him that) landed a good hit, I had some 300 tons of painite in my hold at that time.

Thinking about the incident a bit later (with a cooler head), a few questions popped up in my mind. I hope some fellow pilots here can enlighten me, so that I can avoid possible mistakes the next time.

1. How did he find me? I SCed to the belt and popped out at a random point, venturing deeper into the belt with the conventional thrusters. Been in the belt somewhere between 2-3 hours. I was under the impression there is no way to find a ship like that, but I may be dead wrong of course. Or was he just lucky?

2. I think he used a Krait for the attack, projektiles looked like a shotgun (sorry, don’t know all the different guns yet). Until today I thought my (mediocre) engineered Cutter could take quite a beating, especially since I put most into its defensive capabilities (engineered A-grade-shields, non-prismatic though, 8 engineered shield boosters, module and hull reinforce package in the M-slots, ...). The speed at which he melted my shields and hull was HEARTBREAKING. What really baffled me, was that my FSD was disabled even before my shields went down half way, so I was basically done then. I always thought the shields had to come down before modules would take serious damage. Guess I‘m wrong there, too?

3. Other than having reacted a bit too late, what could I have done? Run at the first sign of a player popping in? Is a Cutter really THAT weak? Seriously, if I had been in a smaller ship, I‘d have been dead before I could say „Oh look, there‘s a...“. I never had the illusion that I could take a dedicated PVP fighter on in a dogfight or anything, but I really thought I could get away with a black eye if I wanted to.

All in all I‘m more frustrated than anything. The financial loss isn‘t the biggest deal, but the loss of time invested is (for me at least, since time is precious for me). Guess I‘ll stay out of open until I get a better picture of things and seriously upgraded my ship.

TLDR:
My Cutter melted like a snowball in hell and I‘d like to learn from my mistakes... whatever they were.
You should post your build to have it analyzed.

It may be meta gaming but one thing you can do while in open is press CTRL-B and you’ll see it brings up stats for bandwidth usage in the bottom left corner. They will be very low of no players are in your instance but you’ll see they get much higher as soon as you’re instanced with someone.

You’ll know someone is around long before you see them on radar.
 
You should post your build to have it analyzed.

It may be meta gaming but one thing you can do while in open is press CTRL-B and you’ll see it brings up stats for bandwidth usage in the bottom left corner. They will be very low of no players are in your instance but you’ll see they get much higher as soon as you’re instanced with someone.

You’ll know someone is around long before you see them on radar.
When being as lame as this, you might as well menulog
 
1. How did he find me? I SCed to the belt and popped out at a random point, venturing deeper into the belt with the conventional thrusters. Been in the belt somewhere between 2-3 hours. I was under the impression there is no way to find a ship like that, but I may be dead wrong of course. Or was he just lucky?

2. I think he used a Krait for the attack, projektiles looked like a shotgun (sorry, don’t know all the different guns yet). Until today I thought my (mediocre) engineered Cutter could take quite a beating, especially since I put most into its defensive capabilities (engineered A-grade-shields, non-prismatic though, 8 engineered shield boosters, module and hull reinforce package in the M-slots, ...). The speed at which he melted my shields and hull was HEARTBREAKING. What really baffled me, was that my FSD was disabled even before my shields went down half way, so I was basically done then. I always thought the shields had to come down before modules would take serious damage. Guess I‘m wrong there, too?

3. Other than having reacted a bit too late, what could I have done? Run at the first sign of a player popping in? Is a Cutter really THAT weak? Seriously, if I had been in a smaller ship, I‘d have been dead before I could say „Oh look, there‘s a...“. I never had the illusion that I could take a dedicated PVP fighter on in a dogfight or anything, but I really thought I could get away with a black eye if I wanted to.
1. A: Probably scouting hotspots. I assume you were within 100km radius of the hotspot, so circling around it in a spiral will eventually make him find you. There are more scout strategies but at the end of the day, yes, it could have been just a lucky spot (I also found some random once in the deep black, unlikely but still possible).

2. A: What is your CMDR name, may I ask? Just recently I have seen footage of a mining Cutter getting destroyed within seconds by a Krait with Pacifiers (shotguns). If it was you, I can take a look at the footage in detail and give you a better answer. If not, fragment cannons (shotguns) deal devestating damage to both shields and hull. Other loadouts like short range blaster plasma accelerators can deal an astounding 1000MJ of raw damage per shot. Last but not least there are also torpedos and minelaunchers that have a special effect which damages the shield generator directly. This means that your shield strength is irrelevant as your shield generator integrity goes down and if it reaches zero your shields drop.

For your FSD to be disabled while shields were up there is an explaination. Dumbfire missiles and the power player weapon from Yuri Groom can temporarily disable FSDs when getting hit even with shields online. They don't damage your FSD but force it to reboot which means you are unable to jump for a couple of seconds. There are also flechette launchers that can indeed damage modules through shields. And then there is the ion minelauncher which disables your thrusters that you need to jump or use the FSD in the first place (it's coupled with the thrusters per lore iirc).

3. A: Lots of things. There are numerous groups out there that offer basic training for survival in open. Just last weekend at the time writing this there has been an event within the New Pilot's Initiative for gank evasion. Gankers would explain what they do to hunt some random player down and how to avoid it. For gankers this is fun because easy targets are boring and for gankees this is fun because evading a gank comes with statisfaction (and preserves your 300t of pianite).
For your case in particular I can't give you a detailed answer as I don't know how you fly your ship in general and what happened in that case you've described.


If you are interested in enhancing your skills and get to a point where you'll never have to worry about being ganked anymore feel free to contact any of the known gankers as most, if not all of them are always happy to help getting players to a "gankproof" level. Otherwise you can contact me as well via PM but I'll just redirect you to one of the gank evasion places I know of.
Until then, have a good one :)
 
I would suggest trade and mine in solo, you'll save yourself some time and a bit of grief. Any player lurking for other players is very likely built to kill (Pure Combat). I imagine most mining, trade, commerce builds are not. Unless your being guarded by a wing open is no man's land for non-combat ships.
Unless your a glutton for punishment, solo will allow you to grind in peace.
 
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