Dinosaurs Herding

[DBlac]

Your Feature Request / Idea
Herding

Hey everyone, thought I'd start this off as im a bit too excited to help myself.

So obviously we're starting this with a highly demanded feature about dinosaur behavior, mostly ticking off boxes here but also with helpful suggestions! I've already given my ideas on this but i will reiterate here for posterity and convenience. Also, since this behavior is extremely similar and mechanically close to pack behavior i wasn't sure if would be ok to group it with this, but i decided against it so let me know if it's alright to talk about Packs here.

So first off i think one very simple way to handle herding would be to just have animals of the same or even similar species gravitate towards each other. This could be extended towards other animals to a lesser extent to combine two herds into one large mixed one, such as trikes and parasauralophus living together, as you would imagine in nature the trikes would benefit from the early alert nature of the para and the paras from the strong defensive features of the trikes. But were just talking masking behavior here, not all that.

Obviously that is just the bare bones so what i would rather suggest is that internally, without necessarily making it visible to us as it may need to be re-adjusted a lot with animals leaving enclosures and so on, you set up a system that picks a Leader/Alpha for the group of dinosaurs of a specific species within an enclosure. I suggest that this is established the moment there is more than one dino of a species in an enclosure, as even in nature there will always be a more dominant and a more submissive individual even among two. Once this alpha is established, the other members of the species could gravitate loosely around their area and when that alpha moves, they assume its general direction and location, as if it's leading them somewhere else.

Honestly i think that's about everything you would need to do to have some convincing group mechanics here, rather than all dinos feeling like theyre largely individual actors that simply rely on the presence of others not to panic.

Hope this helps and im curious what the rest of the community has to say and suggest on this!

 

[JohnMiller1132]

Wow~! Your idea of symbiotic herding is AWESOME!! Again, 5-Stars rated! [up]

The wishlist #561 posted by me decades ago only listed typical things about herding and behaviors most people expect to see movie-wise. Nothing special but I put it here just for completeness purposes.

Meanwhile, I am working on an idea about territorial concept. The preliminary links are at here and here. While herding by sticking together is crucial, I think one cannot overlook the concept of home and territory. For instance, a herd of exploring predators wouldn’t fight to death, committing group suicide unless their home is invaded and has nowhere to go. Similarly, outnumbering herd of trikes wouldn’t panic and run away in the sight of a single predator. Dynamic territorial establishment is even been mentioned in TLW and JP3. I will probably open a new thread on that regard while incorporating both of your ideas into mine as well.

 

[DBlac]

Hey man, thanks a ton, glad you like it!

I absolutely agree, your variation of territorial behavior is a great concept! I think we should understand that we need the very basics of behaviors in first and then we can build up on things after those are done, but it's good to have this here in this forum to gauge interest and be easy for the devs to access, so please do post a thread with it when you are done compiling it!

 

[Winterwalker]

Obviously it would be great to see this idea developed in the game but is 'herding' the right word exactly?

Trying not to sound pedantic - though I probably will - but shouldn't it be better descibed as 'flocking'?

I think this might make a subtle but quite different way of working where the dinosaurs maybe don't gravitate 'towards a dominant matriarch' like mammals would but there might be a tension, between wanting safety in numbers and a certain wariness of other individuals. Could be a fascinating thing to study both for building the game and playing it, and watching the flock murmurate, "Just like a flock of birds evading a predator?" - Alan Grant.


eg. How does this work in two dimensions (on the ground)?
[video=youtube;NREmtGhIHew]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NREmtGhIHew[/video]

 

[DBlac]

While dinos are related to birds, they are not quite birds. Buffalos and sheep and so on exhibit similar looking behavior and it's called herding. As large, terrastrial, non-flying animals i believe their behavior would be far more akin to what we see in mammals who choose to collect in groups, such as elephants, buffalos etc. It has also been theorised quite heavily that there would indeed be dominant matriarchs or the like, who would guide the herd, much like in elephants, though this is obviously a matter of how much you trust certain theorists.

I also think it's important to be careful of how in depth we go with our desire for mechanics, as feature creep always lurks around the corner and is a dangerous beast.

As to the herding vs flocking thing, mice and bats are more closely related than birds and dinos, and yet we would still call it a herd of mice (while i dont know if i've ever heard it referred to as such as they exhibit different social structures more akin to humans, its still more likely to refer to them as a herd and not a flock despite their connection to bats) and a flock of bats. It mostly depends on whether they are terrestrial or flight animals. And bats are known to exhibit the exact same flock flight patterns as birds. For a more obvious and clear cut example, Bats are about as related to an elephant as a bird is to an edmontosaurus. We call groups of elephants herds and groups of bats flocks.

 

[Winterwalker]

Yeah, definitely and only spit-balling.

All I'd really say is while matriarch/patriarch (family group) is one reason to #herd, there can be others (like follow the food or stay in range of potential mates). The one advantage Jurassic World has is by all being female there's less need to worry about the quite common behaviour for females to group while males to go solitary. I do think it would be nice if it varied at least a little bit across species family though because being 'intelligent enough to hunt as a pack' might be reason for carnivores to herd too.

[up]

 

[DinoWhisperer]

yes... it's annoying when they wonder too far from each other and then start to break your fences cause they feel alone

also for some reason the armored types are antisocial in this game which is wrong...you can't have too many dinos around them cause they start breaking your fences,... it makes no sense, all herbivores are herd animals including armored ones.

 

[South Tyrant]

Dinosaur herds

We need herds of dinosaurs following a path together, herding would make the game even better

 

[denoth]

Excelllent

Your proposal seems right to me. I think it would give the game a lot more life.

 

[AcaciaJacqueline]

I Agree

 

[denoth]

I think your proposal is right, 5 stars!

 

[South Tyrant]

Thanks!

 

[DBlac]

Thanks fellas, hope this behavior manages to get in, in some way!

 

[Player 99234567]

Well if you needed a way to determine an alpha you could have it so that when more than one of a dino is made they go into their fight mode like you said and if the stats are the same the computer just decides an alpha. If you decided to "pick" and alpha you could make one individual with slightly better or way better stats and even give it a different color just to mark it from the rest (same could work with carnivores for packs). It would give a little depth to gene splicing and make herding/packs a little more interesting. Any thoughts on how herding would vary?

Small herd 1: struthios, gallimimus, archaeornithimimus

- when frightened alpha leads group like what we saw in JP with the gallimimus
- when in high population enclosures be more spread out

Packs 1: velociraptor, deinonychus
-alpha leads pack around on 'hunts' and breakouts

just some thoughts.

 

[Alan_Grady]

Meanwhile, I am working on an idea about territorial concept. The preliminary links are at here and here. While herding by sticking together is crucial, I think one cannot overlook the concept of home and territory. For instance, a herd of exploring predators wouldn’t fight to death, committing group suicide unless their home is invaded and has nowhere to go. Similarly, outnumbering herd of trikes wouldn’t panic and run away in the sight of a single predator. Dynamic territorial establishment is even been mentioned in TLW and JP3. I will probably open a new thread on that regard while incorporating both of your ideas into mine as well.

I so totally agree with both the OP and you! Plus, territorial behavior is a must for solving the big carnivores social limits.

On the other hand, herding the way you described is something I was hoping to see so much in game... but, to round it, I'd ask that some animal within a herd could cry an alarm when sensing danger (a carnivore near, a vehicule, another unexpected stimuli like repellents or cry boxes) and, almost inmediately, move the whole group into action, causing an stampede (when bigger herbivores) or a fleeing flock (ornithomimids).

I think the difference would be the way the animals would run: in the herd, they would just run away the sensed danger without paying much attention to the "herd leader", but just trying not to getting too far away of other animals of the same species while, in the flock, all animals should change direction almost at once (as described and showed in JP) and just keep running until the danger sensation has passed or enter undercover (forest, for instance). Hadrosaurs could also run for tree cover (that's also described in the book and makes sense), while trikes and even ankylosaurs should just make a short run and that just to regroup themselves to a defensive stance.

All that is what I think the game needs the most right now...

 

[DBlac]

I so totally agree with both the OP and you! Plus, territorial behavior is a must for solving the big carnivores social limits.

On the other hand, herding the way you described is something I was hoping to see so much in game... but, to round it, I'd ask that some animal within a herd could cry an alarm when sensing danger (a carnivore near, a vehicule, another unexpected stimuli like repellents or cry boxes) and, almost inmediately, move the whole group into action, causing an stampede (when bigger herbivores) or a fleeing flock (ornithomimids).

I think the difference would be the way the animals would run: in the herd, they would just run away the sensed danger without paying much attention to the "herd leader", but just trying not to getting too far away of other animals of the same species while, in the flock, all animals should change direction almost at once (as described and showed in JP) and just keep running until the danger sensation has passed or enter undercover (forest, for instance). Hadrosaurs could also run for tree cover (that's also described in the book and makes sense), while trikes and even ankylosaurs should just make a short run and that just to regroup themselves to a defensive stance.

All that is what I think the game needs the most right now...

Makes sense and fits well with the idea i posited where animals would assume the path of the alpha.