Here's What G5ing Your Gear Will Cost You

So I willfully subjected myself to the current Odyssey grind for the past two weeks to figure out just how long it takes to obtain a full set of G5 gear, as well as what kind of overall power increase players should expect from doing so. I now have those answers.

As of today, I currently have in my inventory:
  • G4 Dominator Suit
  • G4 AR-50 kinetic rifle
  • G3 Aphelion laser rifle
  • G2 C-44 kinetic carbine / submachine gun
  • G2 Eclipse laser carbine / submachine gun
  • G2 TK Zenith laser sidearm
  • 56 Manufacturing Instructions left over, farmed from an Impact Site (Threat 2) via relogski
Due to the way the upgrading system works, I can see the results and requirements of G5 gear from G4; additionally, the upgrade requirements for all of the Kinematic Armaments weapons are the same. Using these two facts I can construct a G5 loadout using the Dominator Suit, two AR-50s as primary weapons and a P-15 kinetic sidearm in order to figure out roughly how many materials I need to fully G5 my gear, as well as what to expect from doing so.

(As a side note: while I do have the material costs, I do not have stats on the P-15 beyond G2, at which it will do 17.8 MJ/s for DPS - which is crazy good compared to the AR-50 and C-44's G2 upgrades.)

Without further ado, here's the upfront material cost to construct a fully G5'd kinetic Dominator loadout:

G5 Kinetic Loadout:
Manufacturing Instructions
224​
Weapon Schematic
108​
Compression-Liquified Gas
174​
Tungsten Carbide
330​
Weapon Component
330​
Suit Schematic
36​
Health Monitor
37​
Power Regulator
36​
Titanium Plating
110​
Graphene
110​
TOTAL:
1495​

Here's what G5ing the Dominator Suit will give you, plus the mats to do so:
20210419204947_1.jpg


MatsG2G3G4G5Total
Suit Schematic15102036
Health Monitor25102037
Power Regulator15102036
Manufacturing Instructions38153056
Titanium Plating5153060110
Graphene5153060110

Here's the G5 stats for the AR-50, plus the material requirements to fully G5 any Kinematic Armaments weapon:
20210418212638_1.jpg


MatsG2G3G4G5Total
Weapon Schematic15102036
Compression-Liquified Gas310153058
Manufacturing Instructions38153056
Tungsten Carbide5153060110
Weapon Component5153060110

I would fully G5 all of my equipment if I could, but it seems as though there is some form of bug regarding stolen items that causes them to create duplicate entries in your inventory and thus are unable to be used in upgrading - despite not being marked as stolen once you store them in your ship. Link to that bug report can be found here.

That and I've burned through all of my items and materials I gathered from speedrunning Deol Depot during Phase 2...

----

Closing Thoughts:

It took me around two weeks to gather the materials to upgrade my equipment using relogski exploits at Industrial Settlements, Military Settlements, Nav Beacon Impact Sites (Threat 2's), and Irregular Markers POIs - and I'm not even G5'd yet. I'm concerned that gathering these materials by playing the game normally would result in many weeks of gameplay just to get to where I am now. Furthermore, Modification Slots are permanent changes to our gear: should you decide to change even one of those mods at a later date, you will need to grind out another 300+ materials to G5 another version of that gizmo on top of whatever the material requirements are to re-equip those ModSlots™️.

In short: the upgrading / Engineering system as implemented will heavily discourage experimentation, if not outright kill it for the average player.

On the other hand, we have the power increases from G5ing your gear. The AR-50 gets a 277% boost to damage, while the Dominator Suit gets a 500% increase to shields and to shield recharge rate. (The Dominator's G5 regen rate is 5.5 MJ/s, which is just below the 5.6 MJ/s broken regen rate of a 5C Bi-weave.) Even with a G4 suit I can forgo any sense of self-preservation and literally punch my way to victory as my enemies cower in fear before the might of my fists!


Source: https://youtu.be/Uyrlp68XclQ


This leads me to three suggestions:
  1. Lower the cost of upgrading our equipment
  2. Allow players to remove and save mod slot items to encourage experimentation
  3. Reduce or remove the power increases from upgrading; greatly reduce global TTK to compensate.
The first two aim to reduce the grind for upgrading equipment; the third's aim is to bring the on-foot TTK down to encourage more tactical gameplay over simply running around in the open and tanking damage like the Hulk. We still don't know what the ModSlots™️ have in store for us, so I'll be happy to update my suggestions as we get more information.
 
Nice work!

I hope, if mod slots are bound and not swappable, we can buy a whole different number of suits to pick and choose, perhaps even ones distinguishable by the paintjobs we choose, similar to ships. I'm still hoping for a Centurions style chop and change setup rather than an entire wardrobe of Iron Men.

I still want to HULK SMASH tho. 😜
 
Just as I thought, it's ridiculous in just about every way and reinforced the worst design decisions of the original engineers, some of which were fixed later, but we've definitely regressed. Power creep aside, I really, really hope that these upgrade amounts are just placeholders just for alpha. If not, I dare not think about what actual engineering will cost, and not just upgrades.
 
Beyond upgrade slots for mods, shield regeneration and shield strength, is there any actual benefit for upgrading these suits?

I can pretty much steamroll over every CZ and Mission so far in just the basic, nonupgraded gear.
 
It took me around two weeks to gather the materials to upgrade my equipment using relogski exploits at Industrial Settlements, Military Settlements, Nav Beacon Impact Sites (Threat 2's), and Irregular Markers POIs - and I'm not even G5'd yet.
That is just plain ridiculous. FDev, are your serious?
Collecting 1495 materials just for upgrading your gear, nevermind the costs to fill those engineering slots in each item?
I am truly at a loss for words.

This leads me to three suggestions:
  1. Lower the cost of upgrading our equipment
  2. Allow players to remove and save mod slot items to encourage experimentation
  3. Reduce or remove the power increases from upgrading; greatly reduce global TTK to compensate.
The first two aim to reduce the grind for upgrading equipment; the third's aim is to bring the on-foot TTK down to encourage more tactical gameplay over simply running around in the open and tanking damage like the Hulk. We still don't know what the ModSlots™️ have in store for us, so I'll be happy to update my suggestions as we get more information.
I agree, these seem like three sound suggestions to me. I would add separate inventory limits for different materials, to get player frustration at least back to Horizons levels...
 
Beyond upgrade slots for mods, shield regeneration and shield strength, is there any actual benefit for upgrading these suits?

I can pretty much steamroll over every CZ and Mission so far in just the basic, nonupgraded gear.
I have a feeling we'll get a better idea once we know what sort of Mods we get for the slots, be it things like night vision, a jetpack booster, stealth modifications, energy battery optimisation, better temperature management, or even an extra hook or pocket to store an extra tool or gun. I hope it's some of these and something more interesting than that.
 
Engineering already made little sense with the ships, considering the degree of extra oomph it gives them. Doubling values with negligible downsides.
But in a death match style FPS? That's just ridiculous. People in dedicated FPS games cry havoc if you get a 3% damage bonus.
So in the end you will only see people play these missions if they have G5 gear, which means boring grind. Instead of maintaining a level playing field.
(For a suit and a gun... I mean... really.. a SUIT and a GUN... If you buy a kitchen knife in Elite dangerous, prepare to travel the galaxy hunting for metals before you can slice bread or dare even cut meat with it!)

Thanks for the analysis!
 
Calm down a bit. FDev stated that non base level suits and weapons will be purchasable. Even if they cost loads more when buying credits are not an issue in the long run. The only thing that would make a difference is if pre purchased don't get the same number of engineering slots or stats.
 
Great work.

I'm up to G3 and I'm stopping there until live. The fact is, it's night and day compared to G1 and I can imagine G5 suits and weapons would nullify any threat from any NPC. I totally agree that this shouldn't be the case. It should be absolutely more based on higher lethality as you progress upwards (to the point where the deadliest NPCs should be able to kill you in a full G5 suit if you're not careful, because it's all about higher DPS and lower TTK, with greater utility via the slots - but we all know it'll just be +x% health mods that'll make everything a tank and weapons that basically mitigate that slightly).

The whole idea of health based game play just results in what you're showing with the video. Hopefully they do away with it.
 
  1. Lower the cost of upgrading our equipment
  2. Allow players to remove and save mod slot items to encourage experimentation
  3. Reduce or remove the power increases from upgrading; greatly reduce global TTK to compensate.
AND make traders for items and data.
Why are traders so important? Cuz with traders you can just gather whatever you want and exchange that to something you need instead of relogging.

non base level suits and weapons will be purchasable
So instead of RNG grind materials you'd prefer to rely on RNG in store?
 
Not into pewpewing enough to upgrade whatever suit I get in the live game,
Good news for you then. In order to upgrade, you do not need to ever shoot a single round. It's literaly not possible to upgrade via combat.

So, currently, upgrading (and my guess is Engineer slots too) is well designed for players who dislike combat. Sensible, right?

Edit: Sorry, to be clear - I know what you're saying (you probably won't grind at all for mats because you don't need to), but I think my point was well enough made anyway :)
 
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So IRL I take my suit to a tailor and say I'd like to make some changes to this suit. The Tailor tells me to bring him 6 rolls of cloth, 4 engine from a car (where do all those power regulators go on the suit ?) and a host of other items.

My response would be "you sell suits. Why do you not have the necessary materials?" . The whole premise is a little weak to be honest, and seems just another reason to stick in a grind, one that really kind of forces you to use the relog "MECHANIC" which they went out of their way to prevent for stacking missions.

Engineering I can understand because that's some crazy mad scientist that lives in the sewer is going to do some strange hacks to it. But now we have 2 separate grinds for each piece of equipment. That's way overdoing it.
 
Good news for you then. In order to upgrade, you do not need to ever shoot a single round. It's literaly not possible to upgrade via combat.

So, currently, upgrading (and my guess is Engineer slots too) is well designed for players who dislike combat. Sensible, right?

Edit: Sorry, to be clear - I know what you're saying (you probably won't grind at all for mats because you don't need to), but I think my point was well enough made anyway :)
Mind explaining how you are grinding the mats without combat?
 
So IRL I take my suit to a tailor and say I'd like to make some changes to this suit. The Tailor tells me to bring him 6 rolls of cloth, 4 engine from a car (where do all those power regulators go on the suit ?) and a host of other items.

My response would be "you sell suits. Why do you not have the necessary materials?" . The whole premise is a little weak to be honest, and seems just another reason to stick in a grind, one that really kind of forces you to use the relog "MECHANIC" which they went out of their way to prevent for stacking missions.

Engineering I can understand because that's some crazy mad scientist that lives in the sewer is going to do some strange hacks to it. But now we have 2 separate grinds for each piece of equipment. That's way overdoing it.
I'd have just prefered a new currency over this, if I'm honest.

And yes, new currencies suck. But it could simply have been one specifically tied to combat, called merits (no wait, that's Power Play, abort, abort!) honours. And honours have an upper limit to them so must be spent or wasted (but let's say that as you gain Mercenary rank, your upper cap increases). One gets honours for shooting things until they die, capturing CZ points, assisting team mates (damaging a target that is killed by another ally), winning battles, being the MVP in battles and so on. Honours can be invested in many ways, one being to unlock new upgrades (that's right, unlock them) and that can only be done once you've achieved a certain level with that weapon type. Yes, you have to use something if you want to upgrade it. This grants you something called proficiency - proficiency proves you're worthy of handling said weapon or suit at a higher grade. This is where Fdev limit how long it takes us to upgrade stuff.

So, once you've got enough honour to unlock a new grade for a weapon and you've used (killed with, assisted with, captured a point whilst using and so on) the weapon sufficiently to prove you're at that proficiency level, you go to the Honours contact (a very military looking person, who we will erstwhile refer to as the Mercenary Training And Regulator, or MTAR) who will grant you a licence for that upgrade. From then on, you can buy said upgrade with credits as often as you like.

MTAR will offer additional benefits to you at a cost of Honours. These will be battle based benefits such as commands and rallies. These are one-time costs and are only available as you rise in Mercenary rank. One such command might be "Focus Fire". When used in combat, any allies who are nearby to you will switch target to your target if possible - another might be "Fall Back!" and this will make any nearby allies retreat to your position and maintain covering fire as they do. A rally might be "Press the Advantage!" and this cry will provide a short bonus to accuracy for all nearby allies.

MTAR can also offer passive bonuses in the form of one-off transactions that cost Honours, such as a passive increase to capture speed, or strategy expert which offers you a slight warning of which capture point is shortly coming online.

But what about all the materials in the game? I hear you all cry. Synthesis is a valid and worthy addition to the game. I think this should be extended into Odyssey but not with the annoying damage bonus ammo and all that nonsense. Non combat stuff should be upgraded and I'd suggest those upgrade requirements be based entirely on the relevant activity. So the Maverick suit, the cutter tool and relevant engineer stuff can absolutely still come from all those items (they might need to er... delete a lot of them though - but you can sell all of these materials and I actually think that's great, meaning we can make some money from just scavenging).

Artemis suit and its module slots should be upgraded via a similar system to Honours, but rewarded by the EXB vendor instead.

See, I don't think the materials grind is a bad thing if it's done naturally whilst doing the thing it's designed to upgrade. If all I did was infiltrate and do stealthy missions, then I'd have no issue using the stuff you find to upgrade the stuff I use to do that. Just let us upgrade combat stuff by doing combat stuff....
 
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Mind explaining how you are grinding the mats without combat?
Stealth or just cutting into an inactive settlement without being detected.

Majority was stealth. Sure, there were times when I chose to kill the scavengers (and you could also choose to kill to get access to other stuff too) but the killing isn't actually required whatsoever. For a single item. Even if you do choose the combat approach, it's not the combat that grants the rewards. You still have to then hunt for, break and enter and then gather up all the bits, rinse and repeat a hundred times just as the OP describes. It's just faster to do it via stealth (or relogging crash sites, depending on the item).

At least Ship Engineers lets you get something for a ship kill in the form of materials. Killing stuff gets you nothing at all in Odyssey towards upgrades. And isn't required whatsoever to upgrade to G5. In fact, in my experience, utilising combat instead of stealth is extremely slow a lot of the time (and even when it's not, usually you'll wind up with tons of fines and bounties - which I'm not willing to do, I prefer to stay clean).

I think the most glaring ommision is CZs. All we get for it is credits. Not bad credits. But no other combat progression whatsoever.
 
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