High jump range is ruining the game

Darth Ender

D
Instead of fixing the underlying issue of not having any gameplay mechanic associated with traveling (which you're doing most of the time in the game) they have given us engineers to boost jump range + boosters to synth + stars to get boost scoops from to eliminate traveling from the equation.

This is tremendously shortsighted. Mysterious far away things are now 10 minutes away and with that kind of travel ability it makes no sense at all why the game is organized the way it is in the bubble currently or why powerplay overheads are calculated the way they are based on distance (distance that no longer matters). By boosting jump range they've undermined making space expansive and mysterious ...which much of the story and lore of Elite requires for any of it to make sense, especially going forward with aliens and what not.

You can do a loop through barnard's loop and be back in the bubble in a lunch break. With that kind of ability, why would anything in the bubble (most dealing with distances of at most 200 ly apart) matter at all in regards to distance? The ability to cross 100 ly in 2 jumps is game breaking. Even if we pretend like this is a brand new development, then we should see massive expansion, a massive collapse of any sort of profit in trading, a collapse in crime as there are less opportunities to intercept traders and a massive increase in war and upheaval as factions suddenly have a huge instantaneous reach. The superpowers would either already be at an epic war due to ships now being able to jump 50+ ly behind borders in a single jump or be completely intermixed so that they are no longer able to be independent superpowers.
 

shadragon

shadragon
As I'm sitting out 26,000 LY from SOL at the moment after travelling 126,000 LY distance with the technology I installed in v1.1, I politely disagree. The galaxy is still massive, even with the bonuses.

The FSD improvements make long distance trips easier, but not by much. Even if you have an engineered FSD with neutron star and synthesis active, you only get a small boost compared to the size of the galaxy. Plus, most benefits like synthesis and neutron stars are one time only. Balance is maintained.

Ships with limited FSD range like the FDL benefit and can travel 20LY'ish with engineer tech, which is pretty much the minimum distance you need in the bubble.

The ability for a player to jump a hundred LY isn't game breaking IMHO.
 

Darth Ender

D
shadragon said:
As I'm sitting out 26,000 LY from SOL at the moment after travelling 126,000 LY distance with the technology I installed in v1.1, I politely disagree. The galaxy is still massive, even with the bonuses.

The FSD improvements make long distance trips easier, but not by much. Even if you have an engineered FSD with neutron star and synthesis active, you only get a small boost compared to the size of the galaxy. Plus, most benefits like synthesis and neutron stars are one time only. Balance is maintained.

Ships with limited FSD range like the FDL benefit and can travel 20LY'ish with engineer tech, which is pretty much the minimum distance you need in the bubble.

The ability for a player to jump a hundred LY isn't game breaking IMHO.
Click to expand...

I've been to the 4 edges of the galaxy. In a conda that can do 25ly per jump. I know how big the galaxy is. That trip is halved now. Does tens of thousands of ly still take some time? sure. the point of the thread is that it destroys the game in regards to the core of how things are organized and balanced in the bubble, in powerplay and in the absurdly near aliens / ancients that somehow didn't get noticed till now.
 
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DefiledDragon

D
Darth Ender said:
Instead of fixing the underlying issue of not having any gameplay mechanic associated with traveling (which you're doing most of the time in the game) they have given us engineers to boost jump range + boosters to synth + stars to get boost scoops from to eliminate traveling from the equation.

This is tremendously shortsighted. Mysterious far away things are now 10 minutes away and with that kind of travel ability it makes no sense at all why the game is organized the way it is in the bubble currently or why powerplay overheads are calculated the way they are based on distance (distance that no longer matters). By boosting jump range they've undermined making space expansive and mysterious ...which much of the story and lore of Elite requires for any of it to make sense, especially going forward with aliens and what not.

You can do a loop through barnard's loop and be back in the bubble in a lunch break. With that kind of ability, why would anything in the bubble (most dealing with distances of at most 200 ly apart) matter at all in regards to distance? The ability to cross 100 ly in 2 jumps is game breaking. Even if we pretend like this is a brand new development, then we should see massive expansion, a massive collapse of any sort of profit in trading, a collapse in crime as there are less opportunities to intercept traders and a massive increase in war and upheaval as factions suddenly have a huge instantaneous reach. The superpowers would either already be at an epic war due to ships now being able to jump 50+ ly behind borders in a single jump or be completely intermixed so that they are no longer able to be independent superpowers.
Click to expand...

How is it game breaking? It might be game breaking if the goal of the game is to travel 100ly but it isn't, so how is it "game breaking"?
 

Iskariot

Iskariot
Darth Ender said:
Instead of fixing the underlying issue of not having any gameplay mechanic associated with traveling (which you're doing most of the time in the game) they have given us engineers to boost jump range + boosters to synth + stars to get boost scoops from to eliminate traveling from the equation.

This is tremendously shortsighted. Mysterious far away things are now 10 minutes away and with that kind of travel ability it makes no sense at all why the game is organized the way it is in the bubble currently or why powerplay overheads are calculated the way they are based on distance (distance that no longer matters). By boosting jump range they've undermined making space expansive and mysterious ...which much of the story and lore of Elite requires for any of it to make sense, especially going forward with aliens and what not.

You can do a loop through barnard's loop and be back in the bubble in a lunch break. With that kind of ability, why would anything in the bubble (most dealing with distances of at most 200 ly apart) matter at all in regards to distance? The ability to cross 100 ly in 2 jumps is game breaking. Even if we pretend like this is a brand new development, then we should see massive expansion, a massive collapse of any sort of profit in trading, a collapse in crime as there are less opportunities to intercept traders and a massive increase in war and upheaval as factions suddenly have a huge instantaneous reach. The superpowers would either already be at an epic war due to ships now being able to jump 50+ ly behind borders in a single jump or be completely intermixed so that they are no longer able to be independent superpowers.
Click to expand...


I think the current engineered FSD range enhancements are nothing compared to the actual size of the Elite galaxy.
In general engineered FSD ranges are just in the right spot I believe.

I still need to travel quite large distances and do a lot of jumps when I am in the process of engineering a ship for example.
My FDL for example does not have a very impressive jump range even though I have a level 5 modification on the FSD.

The ability to cross 100 ly in 2 jumps is game breaking
Click to expand...

The average ship won't come anything close to that.

Pro tip:
If you don't want better jump ranges, don't engineer your FSD. :)
 
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Darth Ender

D
Things balanced on distance:

rare values
Powerplay overheads
Superpower areas of control
Faction areas of control
Commodity values
Mission values
Chances for piracy


All of these depend on jump ranges being small to make the bubble make sense. Now that it isn't small none of the current state of the bubble makes any sense. If i can get half way across the bubble in a couple jumps, then why would factions influence still be limited like it is a big deal to go 15 ly to expand? So much of the economy and political aspect of the game are balanced on this idea of basically 20ly being a huge distance that it no longer works when you have 20 as the minimum.
 

DefiledDragon

D
Darth Ender said:
Things balanced on distance:

rare values
Powerplay overheads
Superpower areas of control
Faction areas of control
Commodity values
Mission values
Chances for piracy


All of these depend on jump ranges being small to make the bubble make sense. Now that it isn't small none of the current state of the bubble makes any sense. If i can get half way across the bubble in a couple jumps, then why would factions influence still be limited like it is a big deal to go 15 ly to expand? So much of the economy and political aspect of the game are balanced on this idea of basically 20ly being a huge distance that it no longer works when you have 20 as the minimum.
Click to expand...

Maybe they plan to extend the bubble. We already have Colonia. That's not a couple of jumps away.
 

fus roh potato

fus roh potato
Ah man I totally know what you mean.

Lately at my college, a bunch of the students have been dropping out. It doesn't take as long to find a parking spot, the lines to buy food and drinks are much shorter, and the place is overall less crowded. Totally not fun anymore. These things should take more time. Waiting = fun.

On second thought, maybe that's what missing. Maybe you just need a job, a degree, or a dependent girlfriend so that there are more things in your life you can spend time on.
 
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avow555

avow555
Darth Ender said:
Instead of fixing the underlying issue of not having any gameplay mechanic associated with traveling (which you're doing most of the time in the game) they have given us engineers to boost jump range + boosters to synth + stars to get boost scoops from to eliminate traveling from the equation.

This is tremendously shortsighted. Mysterious far away things are now 10 minutes away and with that kind of travel ability it makes no sense at all why the game is organized the way it is in the bubble currently or why powerplay overheads are calculated the way they are based on distance (distance that no longer matters). By boosting jump range they've undermined making space expansive and mysterious ...which much of the story and lore of Elite requires for any of it to make sense, especially going forward with aliens and what not.

You can do a loop through barnard's loop and be back in the bubble in a lunch break. With that kind of ability, why would anything in the bubble (most dealing with distances of at most 200 ly apart) matter at all in regards to distance? The ability to cross 100 ly in 2 jumps is game breaking. Even if we pretend like this is a brand new development, then we should see massive expansion, a massive collapse of any sort of profit in trading, a collapse in crime as there are less opportunities to intercept traders and a massive increase in war and upheaval as factions suddenly have a huge instantaneous reach. The superpowers would either already be at an epic war due to ships now being able to jump 50+ ly behind borders in a single jump or be completely intermixed so that they are no longer able to be independent superpowers.
Click to expand...

Galaxy is still massive and even a 100 ly jump is paltry compared to the vastness!
 
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Mikey2305

Mikey2305
So last weeks hot topic was that jump ranges should increased because the galaxy is too inaccessible. Here we have the opposite point of view being presented.

Your homework for this weekend folks is to compare and contrast ...
 

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
I disagree.

Boosted jump range has made me far for willing to engage in more activities in the local area.

Previously, a combat CG more than 150ly in my 11ly ranged FDL was basically a "Nope".
Now with ship transfer and longer ranges, my FDL can be on standby much faster, and I can get down to enjoying the game.

Traveling across the galaxy is still a huge undertaking, which you need to be mentally prepared for. Even if it takes 33% less time, it still takes a long long long time to go real far.
 

Thetele

T
I don't mind travel speed increase. Travelling in elite is boring, if they can improve travelling they can increase travel time as it doesn't matter if travelling is fun gameplay.
 

Nine19CnynCrvr

Nine19CnynCrvr
So you want to just hand a straw to the new CMDRs in the little ships and tell them to suck up their small jump range. A 50 ly jump range is the extreme max for stripped down Asp Exs and Annies. To say its game breaking is ridiculous. Technological progress is in every game we play and in real life too. If you want to run around town in the likes of a Ford Model T go ahead, but don't say its ruining life because they made a better engine that can be pushed faster for longer periods.

If you want to stay strictly in game stuff, our shields are game breaking according to your post. Because from what I read human ships didn't have shields until after the first Thargoid encounter (somebody correct me if I'm wrong here). Nobody is forcing you to upgrade from stock. That is the reason they factored in things like mass and FSD ratings. So fully kitted out combat ships had to consider what they wanted more lightweight and further jump range or teeth for days with jump range that a Hauler could beat.
 

CMDR Pugwash

CMDR Pugwash
Totally agree OP. Engineers has undermined the game in many ways.

The jump range "discussion" has been going since launch and there will always be those who just want to get somewhere quicker without needing to comprise. I have recently gone off into the black and have been surprised how quickly you can get places, if you want to. And my Asp is not engineered.
 

Deleted member 38366

D
Let's view the other side of the Equation : fully kitted Combat Ships.

At Ranges as low as 11LY in full gear, any kind of travel in these Ships was a nightmare and the Operational Radius i.e. of an FdL was at best a joke. Other Combat Ships weren't far behind in that respect.
And in addition, convinient Ship Transfer wasn't even a thing.

Yes, there's Ships out there that can almost make a 70LY hop - unboosted.
However... these kind of Ships don't take trouble too well. They're optimized to do only one thing. And that they do, for the price of being no good for just-about anything else.

Looking at everything, I'd say we're currently more or less golden.
 

GG7

G
Darth Ender said:
Instead of fixing the underlying issue of not having any gameplay mechanic associated with traveling (which you're doing most of the time in the game) they have given us engineers to boost jump range + boosters to synth + stars to get boost scoops from to eliminate traveling from the equation.

This is tremendously shortsighted. Mysterious far away things are now 10 minutes away and with that kind of travel ability it makes no sense at all why the game is organized the way it is in the bubble currently or why powerplay overheads are calculated the way they are based on distance (distance that no longer matters). By boosting jump range they've undermined making space expansive and mysterious ...which much of the story and lore of Elite requires for any of it to make sense, especially going forward with aliens and what not.

You can do a loop through barnard's loop and be back in the bubble in a lunch break. With that kind of ability, why would anything in the bubble (most dealing with distances of at most 200 ly apart) matter at all in regards to distance? The ability to cross 100 ly in 2 jumps is game breaking. Even if we pretend like this is a brand new development, then we should see massive expansion, a massive collapse of any sort of profit in trading, a collapse in crime as there are less opportunities to intercept traders and a massive increase in war and upheaval as factions suddenly have a huge instantaneous reach. The superpowers would either already be at an epic war due to ships now being able to jump 50+ ly behind borders in a single jump or be completely intermixed so that they are no longer able to be independent superpowers.
Click to expand...

Ridiculous!

The added FSD ranges have made Colonia possible not to mention PowerPlay a more viable undertaking.

You need to get out more.
 

rajziel

R
Yes lets balance the game around the OP

I have a jump range of 20ly and that's the best I have on any of my ships.
I play in a certain style, its great you can reach places in 2 jumps, quite frankly i dont care if you can.
It may take me 5 jumps to get there but i like my set up that allows me to get straight into doing what i need to do when i get there and not waste more time in outfitting

So you play the game you wantto play and dont ask for idiotic changes that would break the game for others
 
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