Hardware & Technical High quality joystick _with_ twist. Does it even exist?

Njos

N
As far as I'm aware, the only one could be the Cobra M5 sold on http://flightsimcontrols.com/ but it's also true that it needs an upgrade which is out of stock since ever. I didn't contact the VKB guys so I don't know if it's possible to have it built somehow but in any case, even assuming it is an "high quality" joystick, I don't see any other on the horizon.

Btw, x52 owner here, really happy with my controller, if not for feeling that it will die all of a sudden one day while I need it the most (feel free to call it plastic garbage if you want).

Please don't turn the discussion into something like "true men don't use rudder nor yaw" because in fact I use roll on twist for supreme accuracy and will blow the heck out of you damn rollers-on-horizontal-axis and dirty dirty pedallers out there

<3
 

Ving

V
Personally I think the twist action on the X-55 is horrible. As I've already mentioned in another thread, there's too much tension, it creaks, and it makes the stick feel cheap.

Such a shame really, because the rest of the product is great. Opinions may vary of course.

Just become a pedaller! :D
 

Tornado

Tornado
I use a X55 Rhino which has a twist but I don't use it, I prefer to have Yaw on one of the rotaries on the throttle.
:)
 

Njos

N
How's the x-55 an high-quality joystick? >.>

the CH's are high quality, the Warthog is high quality, the x-55 is good quality at best but if you include the price in the global count is just meh.
 

Vergoth

V
X-55 here, it does creak a little bit if your holding it a bit tight (which I have been on a few landings!)

But other than that it's a worthy successor to the x-52, I'm very impressed with it. About a week of heavy use and it's not showing any signs of wear. Plenty of buttons in all the right places.

You have to bare in mind that the x-55 is half the price of the warthog in some outlets, they can't be compared really.

As for the Logitech 3D pro - there isn't really anything pro about it. For the same money your better off getting the Thrustmaster t-flight HOTAS x.
 
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Njos

N
Guys please don't make my eyes bleed. I know that the 3d pro exists and that the tm-16000 exists and all the others.....ok the x-55 is not utterly crappy but I still prefer the x52 for the price and the ergonomics. The only thing I like of the x-55 over the x-52 is that 2nd hat on the throttle, but that doesn't make any great difference since the CH Throttle kills them both in every single aspect anyway. The problem is that the CH joystick has no twist, so I was wondering if I could couple the CH throttle with a proper joystick _with_ twist.

Anyway I was talking about HIGH QUALITY not "good enough" or "best bang for buck" :D Saying that, I mean high quality sensors and high quality mechanics. High quality covers and grips is kinda optional but should help.

Btw, I see no one talking of the Cobra M5, does it mean it belongs to the realm of the dead that one too?
 
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SirNuke

S
the T16000 could fit your bill..the center mechanism is only a spring, but the sensors are HAL effect so ultra precise. Best stick for dogfighting.
 

Jimac

Jimac
The T.16000 is a nice stick, very precise when flying due to the Hall sensors. But your may want to add a throttle to it as the travel on it's own throttle is just too short if you keep reverse on it as I do.

The Logitec pro is a great starting point if your getting a first joystick, cheap and does the job...until drift sets in..and it will. I think your after a better stick than this.

I also have the X65F a very good hotas system. Some don't like it because the stick senses pressure and responds rather than moves itself, but it does have twist and you get used to the pressure system quite quickly. It's buttons and layout are pretty much the same as the X55 I believe.

I don't use it in this game though as it's a bit of overkill for what is really quite an Arcady game, and anyway I have the stick below.

My preference is to use my Sidewinder FF2, it's precise, has a wonderful twist function and it's a bit of a legend in the flight and combat sim community. Although discontinued you can still get new ones but they are asking for the same money as top-end hotas systems so don't even look there. Get on Ebay though and you can pick up a used one from between £25 - £60 depending on how lucky you are.

No-one has made a better,more precise, or more durable, twist stick than this. If they did I'd buy it.

Edit: Just had a look at that Cobra M5, if my Sidewinders were to fail I'd give that very serious consideration. In fact at that price I might get one anyway, my wife will not notice one more stick hehe.
 
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Njos

N
Oh yeah I've heard about the FF2 but more like an archeological item than a proper stick :D All the people who had it says the same tho so I can't do anything else but believe you.

As for the Cobra M5, I've heard good talking about it too, mainly for the sensors and accuracy in general, but again I don't know if it's something they still produce actually. Yeah I know it says "available" on their site but the twist controller (or however it's called) has been out of stock for at least 8-9 months now..... a bit creepy for me to go buy without writing them a mail first.

Anyway, it'd be much appreciated if you update this thread about it whenever you have anything to say. Thanks.
 

Sanpaku

Sanpaku
The ThrustMaster T.16000M is extremely nice for the price. As a current owner of the Logitech 3D Pro I can confirm that the T.16000M is better for fine attitude adjustments.

While I personally use the T.16000M with keypad for thruster/throttle/power controls with much success, I've read others use it with the CH Pro Throttle for a upgrade path that may be functionally (if not aesthetically) superior to the combined HOTAS products.
 

Antmax

Antmax
I think the FF2 is one of the best sticks out there but only if properly supported by your game. Something quite rare these days because FF is mostly obselete.

With the FF2 you can tune out in software the annoying vertical tension that mechanically sprung sticks like saitek models have. There's always a flat spot at the center where you have to overcome the spring to start pushing in a direction. If your rocking the stick across the center for aiming it is not as nice as a good force feedback setup.

Coming from war thunder with it's rudder wobble and trying my friends old FF2. I was amazed at how much better accuracy you had.

In ED it doesn't make much difference, but in WT constrol stiffening used to be a pain with a non FF stick because when you hit the top of the envelope the stick doesn't stiffen, instead the controls rebound while with FF you can feel the controls stiffen as the plane has more force applied to surfaces and you can feel exactly what the aircraft is dong when at speed and pulling up.

Since Elite doesn't have atmosphere and pressure on surfaces, neither does it have support for FF (That I know of) it's probably not worth considering.

But a great stick when supported properly.
 

Njos

N
I'm not very fond of force feedback in general but I might also say I never tried it personally. I've read and saw lots of stuff and even if those who like it sware it's freaking awesome, for the money of the x65f (the only ff stick I'm aware of) I'd simply go for the warthog.

But we're back to square one since it's like chosing between a ff twist or a joystick with no twist at all (and a sprung mechanic) :derp:
 
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spacebum

S
Njos said:
As far as I'm aware, the only one could be the Cobra M5 sold on http://flightsimcontrols.com/ but it's also true that it needs an upgrade which is out of stock since ever.
<3
Click to expand...

That upgrade appears to be for adding magnetic sensors to the twist function. It still has a twist but without that kit only pitch and roll has mag sensors.

Seems like a pretty good stick for the price, even without that little upgrade.

edit: nevermind, found a few comments about it that said the buttons are cheap and the twist action is poor.
 
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flexy123

F
Mini Review of my Thrustmaster 16000m:

It is a nice stick, build quality is "ok" for a joystick "at home" although I am not so sure whether it would survive a fall from my desk. It's certainly not "military quality" :) But that's irrelevant because that thing only cost me €15 (used) and if it ever breaks I just get another one. No-brainer.

I had it open and fiddled with it, interesting construction. It has a 3D motion sensor chip and the magnet at the bottom of the stick is hovering over the sensor. So that's how it works.

The buttons at the bottom, while they work...seem cheap. Joystick doesn't look "cool" to me..but I didn't buy it for it looks.

While the built-in slider works it's extremely uncool, I'd rather use two keys on my KB for throttle or separate throttle.

Annoying green Light: I snipped the wire (there is a doc on the web somewhere how to disable this LED, very easy to do) because the light DID irritate me. It's entirely pointless and way too bright. (A cool blue or red, darker light would have been ok but this is just idiotic)

The included Target software I consider trash, causes a lot of problems under Win8.1 but you don't need this software. The stick otherwise is plug & play works out of the box.

I have an extra Ch Pro throttle coming since I figured a TM 16000m and an extra throttle would be the best budget setup.

Plus:
+ Magnetic Touch-Less Hall Sensor
+ Extremely Precise
+ Very Affordable
+ Ambidextrous (For Left & Right Handers)
+ Twist Left/Right

Negative:
- Less Than Optimal Button Placement
- No Button Labels
- Buttons Seem Somewhat Cheap
- TARGET Software Is Outdated and Causes Probs With Win8/8.1
- Gimmicky Slider

Rating: 8.0/10 because of the low price..so it's a lot of value for little money that makes good for the negatives, IMHO.

***

>>
thers use it with the CH Pro Throttle for a upgrade path that may be functionally (if not aesthetically) superior to the combined HOTAS products.
>>

Exactly!!
 
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