Guest 161958
G
Coriolis EDCD Edition
A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous
s.orbis.zone
s.orbis.zone
My pack-hounds like that buildCoriolis EDCD Edition
A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous
Nah, you're right, we need a balance pass.
Right after nuking the hacks and fixing the bugs
PVP was more interesting for me when TTK wasn't so high, but here we are. All that talk about nerfing shield booster stacking last year, and instead Frontier buffed it with the engineering rework? Oh well.
Yeah, adding in multiple options to improve durability without a corresponding increase in damage output capabilities is obviously going to end badly. There's ultimately two different issues that I see here:
Firstly, there's basically no increases in the various options for damage output. There's technically the option for SLFs on some ships, but beyond A-rating the Distro, maxing out the hardpoints and engineering them, there's practically no way to improve damage. Compare this with defensive modules, which can fit into practically every available type of slot to allow for properly maximised effective HP, most of which can even be engineered further to provide even more multipliers to effective health. To make matters worse, offensive and defensive capabilities don't even compete for the same slots, so a combat ship can maximise both its offensive and its defensive capabilities without tradeoffs.
Secondly, the powercreep introduced by the extra slots provides a massive relative bonus to the effective HP of small ships. This is partially due to them benefitting far more relatively from the free optional slots that were added recently but also they got more slots than other ships (so roughly twice as much powercreep in absolute terms; far more in relative terms). To make matters even more noticeable, the scaling on HRPs is completely borked by a class 1 being pretty damn good even in absolute terms compared to even its much larger brethren once engineering gets factored in, so those little class 1s make a huge difference despite being "only" 1D HRPs.
Firstly, there's basically no increases in the various options for damage output. There's technically the option for SLFs on some ships, but beyond A-rating the Distro, maxing out the hardpoints and engineering them, there's practically no way to improve damage. Compare this with defensive modules, which can fit into practically every available type of slot to allow for properly maximised effective HP, most of which can even be engineered further to provide even more multipliers to effective health. To make matters worse, offensive and defensive capabilities don't even compete for the same slots, so a combat ship can maximise both its offensive and its defensive capabilities without tradeoffs.
Secondly, the powercreep introduced by the extra slots provides a massive relative bonus to the effective HP of small ships. This is partially due to them benefitting far more relatively from the free optional slots that were added recently but also they got more slots than other ships (so roughly twice as much powercreep in absolute terms; far more in relative terms). To make matters even more noticeable, the scaling on HRPs is completely borked by a class 1 being pretty damn good even in absolute terms compared to even its much larger brethren once engineering gets factored in, so those little class 1s make a huge difference despite being "only" 1D HRPs.
I would fly in open everyday and willfully participate in PvP if engineering weren't a thing.
All of my ships are highly engineered, but not to counter every special effect. Spending all that time working on a ship only to find that it has zero hard-counter to whichever whizbang is hitting me has no appeal. I don't even care to know what's possible or how to counter it.
But if everyone was flying around in A-rated, non-engineered ships I'd be fine with that. I love-hate engineering, but as long as it exists I'll stick to friendly PGs.
All of my ships are highly engineered, but not to counter every special effect. Spending all that time working on a ship only to find that it has zero hard-counter to whichever whizbang is hitting me has no appeal. I don't even care to know what's possible or how to counter it.
But if everyone was flying around in A-rated, non-engineered ships I'd be fine with that. I love-hate engineering, but as long as it exists I'll stick to friendly PGs.
I loved PvP before Engineers. The game was more balanced back then. I do like a lot of aspects in engineers, but the quick brutal combat was excellent.
Pretty hilarious how durable Eagles can be. Quite proud of my little iEagle’s durability.
Now I have roughly 1500 hull and MRPs.
Thanks, extra slot! Now I can actually blow up before my modules go, and still be durable.
Now I have roughly 1500 hull and MRPs.
Thanks, extra slot! Now I can actually blow up before my modules go, and still be durable.
Exactly. I love the concept of creating your own ship, I love the number of options and choices and the process works very well for me now. But dear lord does FD get the numbers wrong. I'm not talking about making subtle changes, they can move the decimal point and get a better balance. I honestly struggle to name a game that is so grossly and almost comically unbalanced.
Having said that: hands off enhanced thrusters and DD.
I wish we could get rid of Shield boosters entirely.
Only with a rebalance of base shield stats, otherwise most traders or explorers are Toast.
People say they miss unengineered combat, until they get back into a ship with a stock distributor.
When I used to host weekly stock(A rated, whatever)-ship fights, distributors were the #1 complaint.
The fights were entertaining, and usually didn’t go on too long, but the inability to boost really was a drag.
When I used to host weekly stock(A rated, whatever)-ship fights, distributors were the #1 complaint.
The fights were entertaining, and usually didn’t go on too long, but the inability to boost really was a drag.
Perma-boost is a drag...
Drag munitions are a drag, too
They were drag-ier.
Welcome to the power creep. Brought to you by online gaming.
All too true to the points made above, but I've been down in the Empire that past month or so working a system to collect mats and gain rep with all the factions in the station I'm parked at, and haven't seen but one other player the whole time.
I don't usually seek out PvP but don't have any objection to the occasional encounter, but it's all pretty irrelevant to anyone whose primary focus isn't PvP.
I too enjoyed "the good ol days" before engineers came along. Likewise the Power Play weapons, which I would much prefer were an earn and keep option rather than having to buy all you'll ever need at the time you qualify.
So it goes...
I don't usually seek out PvP but don't have any objection to the occasional encounter, but it's all pretty irrelevant to anyone whose primary focus isn't PvP.
I too enjoyed "the good ol days" before engineers came along. Likewise the Power Play weapons, which I would much prefer were an earn and keep option rather than having to buy all you'll ever need at the time you qualify.
So it goes...
Seems silly to me to complain about not having a counter when one refuses to learn what the effects do and their implications.
I preferred it when boosting was something that had to be timed properly and couldn't be wasted. Manuver via thrusters was vastly more graceful and rewarding that brute forcing everything with boost.
Pip management was even more crucial before Engineering and that was a good thing too, IMO.
