How come a team of 10 devs can achieve something a team of 100 devs can't?

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lenna

lenna
steve_muzz said:
Can't believe the ignorance of some people to assume whatever they decided to make up and write about the games industry or a company must be true. There's absolutely no way 10 people work on NMS. Even if they do Elite's a far more complex game it has 400 billion systems for a start.
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I would not be so sure, it is not unrealistic for such a product to be developed by a 10 man dev team. The world is procedurally generated after all and they could be re-using code/modules developed by third parties (e.g. the actual engine itself)
 

STARFIRE REVMEUP

STARFIRE REVMEUP
[MEOW] babelfisch said:
The whole point of NMS is doing Jar Jar Binks.
I think everything looks horrible and I wouldn't touch the game with a pole. Doesn't mean it's bad though.
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I was there on day one... suffered through the launch... getting ejected from my ship and thrown a mile away dozens of times. falling through the ground and drowning below countless times. having my based moved to a different world 3 times always a different biome.. once buried completely underground. losing entire saves due to there oppies and having to start over. Losing half my bases to others... losing access to bases because they changed their mind on something. much work lost.

no... i am a NMS vet and yes... i did have fun because i can take it and kept on playing. BUT..... they keep moving deeper and deeper into fantasy and farther from realism... thats ok... thats their thing. some people like that.

I prefer better flight models, i prefer feeling like i KNOW WHERE I AM... in NMS... everywhere feels the same... you feel no further in space than anywhere else... closest place to feeling like you know where you at is at the last system before center and i did build few bases on those.

in the end... i like Elite more so thats what i play
 

Exeider

Exeider
STARFIRE REVMEUP said:
Have you even looked at the level of detail on Elites ships?

NMS is a 10gig download... elite is 60 gigs now... thats 6times the size just in assets and systems ... lets see.... 6x26=132 employees. no... you cannot compare on a even basis
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None of which has any bearing on the issues, size on a hard drive has zero to do with the quality of the management of a game project, NONE. Graphics while impressive is NOT what takes up the majority of dev time, it's design, programming and game mechanics. Do you think what took them 3 years was graphics? Go onto Picarto man, you see people stream their modelling and texturing, which takes hours to days, not years. Also in games development, one of the things the programming and art team do is make tools to streamline and speed up character and level design.

For ex, I was at SIGGRAPH one year and had one of the devs of uncharted drake's fortune remake an entire section of a level to demonstrate the power of the tools they create for the level design team so that they can do a ton of work very quickly. Like the bricks in the walk way, he modeled the first brick in mudbox, then added it to his tool, and the tool tweak his base brick so that it doesn't repeat and in less then 2 minutes made a long brick pathway of individual nonrepeating bricks but again it was the tool doing most of the work. And this was back when I was in college for game design and this was what 2007/8(around about)
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So no man, not even close. It was trying to figure out how to get an FPS to work within the cobra engine, and then working with the spaghetti code to make it work. Not to mention the glassdoor reviews do say the tools they are given are pretty crappy.

And btw, I'm sick and tired of hearing the "600 billion star system" excuse like as if Fdev hand crafted these systems, which they didnt' they're all procedurally generated using stellar forge, just like no man sky does. But if you really want to use that as your measuring stick, keep in mind NMS sky can also generate multiple GALAXIES. But again, that doesn't matter since it's all procedural generation based on algorithms and seed numbers. It means precisely eff-all

Again the problem with ED is management and inefficiencies that are allowed to persist due to the aforementioned bad management.
 
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STARFIRE REVMEUP

STARFIRE REVMEUP
Exeider said:
None of which has any bearing on the issues, size on a hard drive has zero to do with the quality of the management of a game project, NONE. Graphics while impressive is NOT what takes up the majority of dev time, it's design, programming and game mechanics. Do you think what took them 3 years was graphics? No man, not even close. It was trying to figure out how to get an FPS to work within the cobra engine, and then working with the spaghetti code to make it work.

And btw, I'm sick and tired of hearing the "600 billion star system" excuse like as if Fdev hand crafted these systems, which they didnt' they're all procedurally generated using stellar forge, just like no man sky does. But if you really want to use that as your measuring stick, keep in mind NMS sky can also generate multiple GALAXIES. But again, that doesn't matter since it's all procedural generation based on algorithms and seed numbers. It means precisely eff-all
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no... the issue was... and was said... 10 does more than 100...

the 10 right out was inaccurate and they HAVE NOT DONE MORE THAN ELITE... the graphics alone requires far more employees

as far as quality... read my above post... they were one of the biggest disasters of all time.... granted they showed good character in fixing much of it so cudos to them
 

Florenus

Florenus
CMDR_LS said:
just updated NMS to the latest version and enabled Nvidia DLSS with everything set to ULTRA and I get like 110 FPS even on the most detailed biome planets

I just don't understand how a team of 10 devs can do that so amazingly well, yet a team of supposedly a 100 devs are still struggling 🤔
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They did it how many years after release?
 

Falcon91

Falcon91
Exeider said:
According to the glassdoor reviews, most rank and file have zero say in scheduling or prioritization, combined with the fact the pay doesn't seem to keep up with the cost of living in Cambridge making housing choices difficult, requiring employees to live far away from work to be able to afford it.
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Hey someone did read my posts about this!
 

Erei

Erei
STARFIRE REVMEUP said:
Have you even looked at the level of detail on Elites ships?

NMS is a 10gig download... elite is 60 gigs now... thats 6times the size just in assets and systems ... lets see.... 6x26=132 employees. no... you cannot compare on a even basis
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Size means very little. In fact, it usually means poor optimization. Like Ark when they had hundreds of Go because the game was atrociously optimised.

It's about the worst metric you can use for a game's quality.
 

ubedead

U
NMS uses the unreal engine which is compatible with DLSS . The "current" POS is still using Cobra which isn't. Maybe a better solution would be to take EDO offline until the "bugs" are actually corrected.
 

STARFIRE REVMEUP

STARFIRE REVMEUP
Erei said:
Size means very little. In fact, it usually means poor optimization. Like Ark when they had hundreds of Go because the game was atrociously optimised.

It's about the worst metric you can use for a game's quality.
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Just not true in the case of how long it takes to create a detailed model.. thats the point... much of NMS... even the stations uses copy paste assets... much like a windows background back in the 3.11 days
 

Exeider

Exeider
STARFIRE REVMEUP said:
no... the issue was... and was said... 10 does more than 100...

the 10 right out was inaccurate and they HAVE NOT DONE MORE THAN ELITE... the graphics alone requires far more employees

as far as quality... read my above post... they were one of the biggest disasters of all time.... granted they showed good character in fixing much of it so cudos to them
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Dude, you are flat out just wrong. Much of NMS' development team was 6 people, it expanded to 15 when it shipped, and the company as of the end of 2020 is 26 people.

And yes, they have done more than elite by a large margin, and less time, ED came out in 2014, NMS came out in 2016. NMS has added multiplayer, basebuilding, underwater game mechanics, different vehicles, missions, community goals and had 3 graphics overhauls in 5 years. (I know I'm missing a lot.) But yes, they have done WAY more than Elite has from where they started to where they are now. Denying that is just delusional at this point. The very fact you acknowledge how hard they fell flat on their face, and then worked to fix the game means you KNOW this you just don't want to admit it.

As far as quality, again your metrics are nonsensical, saying that a game is better quality than another by how much space on a hard drive is like deciding the merits of a mission to the moon or mars by how much cheese there is to be found on them.

PS. And keep in mind I'm not attacking the developers of Elite themselves, they ARE a talented bunch, but it's the people managing them that sucks. The glassdoor reviews alone tell this tale.
 
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Exeider

Exeider
Falcon91 said:
Hey someone did read my posts about this!
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Well if you want to know what's going on the inside of a company read the reviews from former employees, add a slight salt filter and there you go. But yeah I did catch you post AFTER I read the reviews. So great minds...
 

STARFIRE REVMEUP

STARFIRE REVMEUP
Exeider said:
Dude, you are flat out just wrong. Much of NMS' development team was 6 people, it expanded to 15 when it shipped, the and company as of the end of 2020 is 26 people.

And yes, they have done more than elite by a large margin, and less time, ED came out in 2014, NMS came out in 2016. NMS has added multiplayer, basebuilding, underwater game mechanics, different vehicles, missions, community goals and had 3 graphics overhauls in 5 years. (I know I'm missing a lot.) But yes, they have done WAY more than Elite has from where they started to where they are now. Denying that is just delusional at this point. The very fact you acknowledge how hard they fell flat on their face, and then worked to fix the game means you KNOW this you just don't want to admit it.

As far as quality, again your metrics are nonsensical, saying that a game is better quality than another by how much space on a hard drive is like deciding the merits of a mission to the moon or mars by how much cheese there is to be found on them.

PS. And keep in mind I'm not attacking the developers of Elite themselves, they ARE a talented bunch, but it's the people managing them that sucks. The glassdoor reviews alone tell this tale.
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They have not done more. we shall disagree

GL
 
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govny

govny
but above all, why do this thread even exists?
There is a NMS thread and an entire forum dedicated to ED.

edit: after seeing you posts history I understand why.
 
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