Having repair and refuel out on an exploration run is just ludicrous. The idea is you do what you do without those things. I still don;t see how a ship could carry the extra fuel, repair materials, and support in the belly of their ships. Let alone carry a structure, that you could then land in. The entire idea, as I get it, is nonsense. Plan all you like, this craziness cannot happen.
How could player-owned outposts / bases work?
- Thread starter Cmdr Travers
- Start date
Play Space Engineers instead.
Why? Why is it nonsense? I bet you can't even argue this one can you. Refueling isn't even in the paramenters of base, its repair and refitting, it's very very simple to understand, Please don't try to claim "realism" just don't go there. don't
If you want to own or build your own stations, why bother playing elite?
Elite is about one man and his ship...... "his ship".... The game should be developed around this principle and it has been.... if rather poorly at the moment.
This game is Elite and Elite should stick to what Elite is and I wish people would stop trying to make this game like Eve or some other random game people have played...
Elite is about one man and his ship...... "his ship".... The game should be developed around this principle and it has been.... if rather poorly at the moment.
This game is Elite and Elite should stick to what Elite is and I wish people would stop trying to make this game like Eve or some other random game people have played...
This game has established a cogent galaxy for us to play in. Out ships have to take Mass into consideration for Speed, Jump Range, and agility. With the rules and features we do have, filling your ship with Repair mats, would slow you down, and have you jump shorter distances. To carry this on, how much would a portable base, that can be landed on, and repair your ship weigh, and how big would it need to be? The only reality I'm citing, is the one we have in E|D.
Your idea can never work for in-game outfitting reasons. This can never happen. You can't put something in a ship, that is bigger than the ship.... Tardis anyone?
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Having personally known someone who has been banned from a certain game for griefing, it does not matter how stupid any of us think a particular behaviour might be. Some will still do it just because they can, at least until they are stopped by account moderation interaction.
The problem is you are assuming that the bases would ONLY be deployed sufficiently far OUTSIDE the bubble(s) which is a pretty naïve assumption to make wrt the kind of behaviours being discussed.
Even if they are ONLY deployed sufficiently far from NPC populated space, there are still potential issues with certain significant locations being "camped" resulting in players being indirectly subjected to griefing by proxy class behaviours.
The above of course is assuming the bases are not limited from spawning in modes/instances which the owning player in question would not normally have access to. Such a restriction in turn may introduce complications for cases where multiple player owned facilities conflict in location (e.g. have partial overlaps).
In short, the kind of issues with persistent cross-instance/cross-mode bases are NOT currently achievable with current gameplay mechanics when you consider the instancing restrictions of Solo and Private Group modes.
The problem I have with this logic is that, it's basically saying you can't put camping gear in a car. The base is obviously something that can be repackaged, which means that it can fit inside a ship, It's like you have it in your mind how you don't want it to work, then are throwing it at the concept and forcing that form of implementation. I'm sorry but there are many ways this could be done, your base deployment could just simply be a drone that you bring materials to and it begins constructing the base lol. That is just one out of many ideas this could happen.
Tell that to the developers. Tell that to the kickstarter talks the statements about how many things that were not possible in Elite are eventually going to be a thing in the future, face it, it's going to be a multi-genre game. Maybe you should just stick to one of the older Elite games. The dev's want to expand their game, and are building a universe. There's no point in havi
From David Braben himself.
What? Camping gear? Who's trying to shoe horn reality in now? If you have more camping gear than can fit in your vehicle what do you do? What does all of that camping gear do to the performance and fuel mileage of that vehicle. Do you think anyone carries a cabin in the back of their SUV's in case you need a nap?
No, I don;t want it to work. It is counter to the 'survival' aspect of exploring, which is the part of it I enjoy the most.
Compare the idea to the SLF's. The SLF's are on the edge of what can be fit into a ship. They are folded down, and have to be remade after a loss. If an SLF is the biggest thing a Cutter can carry, how can you justify an item that you can land on being fit inside, even the biggest ships?
I believe, ultimately, we will get a permanent 'Asteroid Base' in which to store and ogle our ships. I can never see a portable base, carried around in our ships. That is completely beyond the pale.
Griefing by proxy is RP only, I can go anywhere and do anything I want without being affected by other players. Again, you and the other de railers of this thread who inhibit discussion of actual implementation of these bases, are literally trying to pick the worst example of how they can be implemnted and can't build a solid argument, because your little base can't stop me from doing anything. Period. This is already been proven.
Player ships are already in the SAME location in different instances and yet don't overlap, the SAME can work for bases!
It doesn't even matter if someone can own one spot on the I believe I mentioned atmospheric worlds where bases may have purpose to the content surrounding them because they can only affect their local surrounding which is quite small, when we've used up all the space in the galaxy we'll be long dead by then. These views are myopic and born out of fear and ignorance. "I don't want bases because someone might use it against me, I don't want bases because everything in the galaxy should be mine, I don't want bases because It's not Elite, I don't want bases because players might abuse it. I don't want bases because this is not EVE online"
Whatever man. It's happening ya'll need to get over it. It will happen in the future, I've already posted quotes with significant developer interest in these features. It's all about what these bases are used for, how they function and how player influence extends regarding these features.
I'm sure we never rode in submarines in Elite either, I'm sure we never had first person shooter combat in Elite either. I can't wait till they allow ship boarding and combat, you thought griefing was bad now. LMAO!
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The developers have talked about inflatable bases in the past. So its probbably going to be a thing for larger ships in the future. However if we got an asteroid base somewhere to set up, sure that works fine. As for me shoe horning reality, I'm not I'm simply declaring that items can be packaged and unpackaged regardless of the relation to reality, the same can work for bases. You are the one saying a ship can't fit something bigger than it inside it, that is an example of physics no? So obviously I have to point to packaged gear.
Not seeing the problem to be honest, it makes perfect sense, and gives us more to interact with, more options. I think some of you are trying to compare owning a base to stations though. They are not the same.
This more I think about this the more intoxicating it is. There are so many ways they could make this a worthwhile thing for players to do.
- Missions to establish a trade route of goods that you want (Metals, medicines etc etc)
- Missions to recruit factions to come to your station
- Missions to convince the local superpower/leader to defend your station
- Missions to defend your station from pirates
The ability to decide what kind of station you want or where to put it.
Do you wanna be a launch point for explorers?
Do you wanna be a trading hub?
Do you wanna be a solitary oasis in the middle of the route to Colonia or Beagle point?
- Missions to establish a trade route of goods that you want (Metals, medicines etc etc)
- Missions to recruit factions to come to your station
- Missions to convince the local superpower/leader to defend your station
- Missions to defend your station from pirates
The ability to decide what kind of station you want or where to put it.
Do you wanna be a launch point for explorers?
Do you wanna be a trading hub?
Do you wanna be a solitary oasis in the middle of the route to Colonia or Beagle point?
I love it, Options and variety, though the trading hub and what not is gonna get you all kinds of toxic response, I'd be happy just being a solitary Oasis, but yeah I like your angle of approach on this.
Not the same thing... player ships only exist in the instance they are in.
Some are expecting bases to exist outside of their own instance/chosen-mode-of-play.
As for anything being proven... you are talking total ... at the moment it is all conjecture based on what could be implemented based on what people are indicating they expect/want to see done.
I didn't go through the whole thread (20+ pages? No thanks lol)
Why are people throwing hissy fits over trading hubs?
If the "trading hubs" are owned (and effectively controlled) by a minor faction (even if it is just the Pilots Federation) and subject to said minor faction's rules of interaction there is not really much of an issue... BUT... the positioning player should not gain any material benefit from player interactions with it.
The problems come when people start talking about player-to-player trading, cargo/material storage/trading, and adding zones of control/defences or being able to arbitrarily dictate who can and can not interact with it.
Overall, there are a minefield of issues and FD need to be careful in how they go about implementing any comparable features. There is a high risk of going too far down the path of certain other games if things are implemented the way some want them to be implemented.
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Some people are just opposed to anything new. They will find all the arguments in the world against your idea because... well, just because they can. When someone proposes an idea, you can either discuss it, find flaws in it and what could be done to remedy those flaws. In other words, constructive criticism. The other way to react to a new idea that you don't like for no particular reason is just to put it down, finding arguments why it's a bad idea. To any new idea, there will be good things and bad things. Some people prefer to look at the bad side. I'm not strongly in favor of player's owned bases but I'm not opposed to it either. I think that if done right, it could be an added bonus. It could really encourage people to drive this game and blaze their own trail... But I agree that if done wrong, it could have a bad impact on the game.
Oh okay. Thats not what I meant.
I was talking about a system where lets say your Station receives X amount of goods or activity over the course of the standard week. Upon the weekly reset you get X amount of credits. Kind of like the way the community goals work. If you reach a certain level you get a certain award.
Just like how you get X amount of money per week from your chosen Leader.
You help the productivity of your station by doing weekly assignments and missions for your station.
- Bring the goods your station needs
- Loyalty missions for the local Leader/Faction to ensure their continued support
- Help defend the station from NPC pirates etc etc
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Defo not looking forward to that one.
Imagine some 14yr old noob learning on google how to steal a ship.Then coming back to see your fully A-Rated &Rngineered, Battle-Cutter worth .5Bil Credits flying out of the letterbox, with a cheapass, stripped down, sidey taking it's place...
o7
This is a contentious area but providing the initial cost is sufficiently high and the rewards are not too great (and require docking at said station to receive them) then I can see it not being too much of an issue. It may even need to be capped on a weekly basis.
However, the base should be affiliated with a minor faction and the player should probably only be considered a manager at best. As soon as we start being considered owners of a given facility then the problems start to surface wrt zones of control and arbitrary denial of access.
I see no issue with such a base retaining any trading inventory on transition between power play/BGS weeks but the rules for cargo quantities and trading restrictions should be as per normal BGS rules.
Since we are also talking about Power Play like mechanics, we probably should be limited to benefiting from one such station at any given time.