How do you approach fighting 4+ NPCs?

Pat Healy

P
I'm doing fine vs wings up to 3. I'm Combat Mediocre at best but engineered FDL is an easy button vs smaller ships, so I dispatch them quickly and then move on to the Conda or whatever is the big ship in the wing. The only thing that's really giving me trouble is the Threat 3/4 signal sources in pirate massacre missions. I drop in and immediately get attacked by 4 or 5 NPC's. By the time I kill the weakest 2, my shields are down and it's run or rebuy. Having rebought twice now, perhaps a new approach is needed. How do I git gud at laying waste these hordes?

I'm flying a FDL with G4 bi-weaves, gimballed beams, huge MC, all weapons G5 and all other important bits G3+. I'll post the build if anyone's interested, but this is more a question about skills and tactics. Thanks all.
 

Chorda

Chorda
Bi-weaves don't really stand up to protracted fights, it's more a hit-and-run deal there. Shield cell banks and reinforced prismatics (with shield boosters engineered to raise your resistances) are probably your best bet for wing assassinations, though I recall the FDL has power/heat management issues that may make that tricky (not entirely certain, I don't fly one).
 

Chris Simon

Chris Simon
Putting Bi-weaves on a ship with the highest base shield multiplier in the game is a heresy!
You are basically robbing yourself of Half of the staying power of the ship.
Bi-weaves are great for hull-tanks that can take the punishment and wait out the shield recharge. In other words - bi-weaves are better when used over multiple depletions/recharges. If you just run after getting your shield shot up, the bi-weaves are pointless.
Buy a proper A-rated shield.
 

Trollymctrollerson

T
I find the NPC vultures to be more problematic than the NPC fdls. If you can take down 2 of them fast in the start it helps but i know thats tough. If you pack some seekers, target their thrusters. Strip the shields then blow out their thrusters quick. Leave them to float around until the other threats are neutralized.
 

Pat Healy

P
Chris Simon said:
Putting Bi-weaves on a ship with the highest base shield multiplier in the game is a heresy!
You are basically robbing yourself of Half of the staying power of the ship.
Bi-weaves are great for hull-tanks that can take the punishment and wait out the shield recharge. In other words - bi-weaves are better when used over multiple depletions/recharges. If you just run after getting your shield shot up, the bi-weaves are pointless.
Buy a proper A-rated shield.
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This makes sense. I really like the bi-weaves for haz res for the exact reason you mentioned - you naturally wait out the recharge while collecting mats after a fight. But terrible for the 5 on 1 scenario. So....prismatics?
 

LifesAJourney

LifesAJourney
I do such missions using my Chieftain (5C bi-weaves + boosters + 6A SCB, short range weapons). I boost out from initial situation (which in most cases is very bad since all foes are close and immediately on me) to reset the fight. Then I focus on mission target and boom & zoom trying to deal as much damage as possible at every fly-by. Normally don't have to use SCBs at all. I treat SCBs as an insurance if I screw something up or NPC is more sturdy and/or agile as usual.

It takes some time due to boom&zooming and waiting for shields to recharge. The latter one can be shorten significantly using SCBs, of course.
 
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rrobes

R
The balancing act, trying to find the right ship/kit to avoid the "I'm dead" or "easy button" extremes takes some experimenting.

FD complicated the issue with bullet sponging, constant chaff and other AI crutches for NPCs. Time to kill can be lengthy and frustrate, some just say s**ew it and go for a Corvette that can kill-kill-kill.

You have to find your personal balance of pleasure/pain. Good luck!
 

VR Jay Le Chardon

VR Jay Le Chardon
I hope you are running 4 pips to sys to enhance and rapidly recharge the shields? Similarly the optimum setup is to have shields modded with special effect of rapid charge, focus on resistance engineering on the shields and boosters.

For the actual fighting itself, grinning pips as 4-0-2, remember that every ship is a set of guns, the more of them the less favourable your chances are so try whittling them down. The fastest way to whittle them down is to stick to one target at a time, accept that his wingment will be firing on you, but that if you turn to another target, you'll get "wolf-packed". Wolf-packing is when multiple hostiles take turns in drawing your fire while their wingmen keep sustained fire raining down on you, it's the surest way to die as you never kill anyone before being killed or forced to flee, and the exfiltration is perilous as you will be running with no shields, damaged hull, and multiple hostiles on your six raining fire on you.

Without knowing your controller set up or your flying style, I can't elaborate on what you are doing right or wrong in the fight, so I can't write you a fully tailored topgun technical tactics training manual, but some general tips are:
  • If the NPC tries to face tank you, as in sit in front of you shooting, "circle strafe" with a combination of vertical and longitudinal thrusters compounded with pitch
  • If the NPC tries to joust, boosting to get behind you, FA off and throttle to 0% for a few seconds and pitch up BEFORE they get to you, they will then zoom past you but you will always have a line of sight ergo a line of fire onto them, and they will be tail towards you and have to turn to get back to a position where they can fire on you. This simple trick gives you ~6seconds of time in which you can fire on the NPC but they cannot return fire as they are out of position.
    • Once they start this turn, see what way they are turning and circle strafe them again, by using lateral thrusters in the opposite direction, so if they turn right you accelerate left and forwards and maintain the aim with a trim of yaw right to follow the target.
    • You can practice this against nav beacons, drop in on a nav beacon, throttle towards but not directly at it, roll the ship so the beacon will pass "above" you then FAoff, as you approach and pass the beacon, use your pitch to keep the beacon in sight, eventually, in like 4 seconds, you'll be travelling backwards while looking at the beacon, throttle to reverse and FA back on. It sounds harder than it really is but its such a useful technique it is well worth mastering...
  • NPC's are still a sucker for a "Reverski", if they come towards you throttle full aft "steer" to keep them in sight, and with pips at 4-0-2 keep firing, eventually, they grow tired of this position/situation and try to boost past you, when they do that, simply follow the instructions from the previous bullet point.
  • If you lose your shields, toggle silent running, it breaks their target lock, making it harder to land leading sight guns on you, which are typically kinetic weapons such as multi cannons, and this is particularly salient as kinetic weapons are the ones you fear when shields are down as they do more damage to hulls than lasers.
I'd reiterate the importance of that FAoff turn manouevre, and stress mastering it will be of most benefit to you.
 

Vedmo

Vedmo
Pat Healy said:
The only thing that's really giving me trouble is the Threat 3/4 signal sources in pirate massacre missions.
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For these ones specifically, I go for whatever ship can do the most damage to me. I'm fine with a handful of Eagles pelting me while I avoid damage from/do damage to the Conda or whatever the big ship is. They can still be rough, depending on what ship I'm in, but I figure I'd rather let a bunch of small hardpoints chip away at me than a mixture of mediums-huge, especially if shields are down.
 

VR Jay Le Chardon

VR Jay Le Chardon
Vedmo said:
For these ones specifically, I go for whatever ship can do the most damage to me. I'm fine with a handful of Eagles pelting me while I avoid damage from/do damage to the Conda or whatever the big ship is. They can still be rough, depending on what ship I'm in, but I figure I'd rather let a bunch of small hardpoints chip away at me than a mixture of mediums-huge, especially if shields are down.
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I've been pecked to death by small rail guns too many times to go down that path, I figure I can chip away at the little guys and try to keep generally out of the line of fire of the bigger ships in the instance while doing so. For taking sakes if you get a conda and three eagles, Boost 4 or 5 clicks away from the conda, the eagles will come with you, but the conda will fall behind, by the time conda has fought up you will have despatched one or two of the eagles.
 

photomankc

photomankc
Chaff. Hull tank. If the object is to kill all of them. I mop away the little guys first. Try to string them out a bit so im not in the center of a crap storm. My Challenger can take a brawl and fight on shields down. Above 30% hull its still in the fight.


Chaff. Prismo Shield Tank w/SCBs. For if the object is just the one ship. Concentrate fire and go for the PP.
 

Miko

M
Pat Healy said:
I'm doing fine vs wings up to 3. I'm Combat Mediocre at best but engineered FDL is an easy button vs smaller ships, so I dispatch them quickly and then move on to the Conda or whatever is the big ship in the wing. The only thing that's really giving me trouble is the Threat 3/4 signal sources in pirate massacre missions. I drop in and immediately get attacked by 4 or 5 NPC's. By the time I kill the weakest 2, my shields are down and it's run or rebuy. Having rebought twice now, perhaps a new approach is needed. How do I git gud at laying waste these hordes?

I'm flying a FDL with G4 bi-weaves, gimballed beams, huge MC, all weapons G5 and all other important bits G3+. I'll post the build if anyone's interested, but this is more a question about skills and tactics. Thanks all.
Click to expand...

With a spoon.
 

Slange Lands

Slange Lands
OP,

Getting swarmed and surviving is about flying skill (range control) and ship loadout.

Flying skill is a large topic. But there are optimal engineering builds for the FDL. Great engineering will make up a lot for less advanced pilots.I have five fully engineered FDLs. It's my favorite ship. :)


For the FDL PvE ( not for Thargoid Interceptors) all grade 5 engineering:
Gimballed OC multicannons with corrosive, emmissive on two mediums, the rest incendiary
Prismatic Reinforced Shield Generator Hi cap Size 5
Charged Enhanced Power Distributor Super Conduits
Power Plant either Armoured or Overcharged with Thermal Spread
Mirrored Surface hull, Lightweight and Reflective. A Lightweight modded Military Grade Hull with Deep plating is good, too.

The above build works well for PvP, too.

With the pirate massacre missions, make sure you have one chaff (preferably increased ammo) and one point defense ( stock okay). I have done hundreds of pirate massacre missions, mostly to improve aim and efficiency. The greatest threat weapon of the pirate is the missile, which they always use after your shields go down. The point defense is key. Missiles will damage your weapons beyond repair in a fight.

I would probably fill the rest of the optional internals with Grade 5 heavy duty deep plated hull reinforcements. One of the size one HRPs should be a kinetic with angled plating.

Shield boosters:
2 Heavy Duty Super Capicitors
1 Resistance Augmented Super Capacitors
1 Thermal Super Capacitors

Engineering is tedious, but is crucial to fight longevity. If you ever choose to PvP, which I hope you will, grade 5 engineering is a requirement

Best wishes.

o7
 
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Brrokk

Brrokk
General principles:

Kill the fast ones first, so you can escape if you need to.

Kill the small ones first as they're quicker to deal with. Faced with e.g. 4 opponents, this gets it down to 3, then 2 etc. as fast as possible. If you tank the biggest one first you'll be under fire from all 4 for longer.

... But there can always be exceptions.
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
Chris Simon said:
Putting Bi-weaves on a ship with the highest base shield multiplier in the game is a heresy!
You are basically robbing yourself of Half of the staying power of the ship.
Bi-weaves are great for hull-tanks that can take the punishment and wait out the shield recharge. In other words - bi-weaves are better when used over multiple depletions/recharges. If you just run after getting your shield shot up, the bi-weaves are pointless.
Buy a proper A-rated shield.
Click to expand...
Agree with the last point but Biweaves can be used on shield tanks in PvE. With proper engineering, you can get huge relative shield health (never depleted except against a full spec ops stack) with a fraction of the recharge time, giving you much longer durability (no need to recharge shields specifically).

But yeh, no point using them if you need to run when they go down and they go down versus 4 npcs that aren't spec ops or wing mission targets.

Op, if these are wing missions then you'll likely need a different ship. Or go for shield strength + guardian boosters for war of attrition tactics.

As mentioned above, the corvette basically lets you take on anything and laugh, if properly engineered. Having an SLF ship helps too. More dps, more distractions.

I'm no FDL pilot, can't stand its flight model, but I'd say you should go all out shield strength as suggested. Like, stack the resistances and add guardian modules to boost it. You'll have more down time but if you're doing Misson uss points that's moot; you'll get your full recharge before arriving at your next point anyway.
 
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