How do you deal with combat logging?

[Ralph Vargr]

No splitting hairs at all - you stated "it doesn't let you log out in combat" when it, i.e. the game, does indeed let any player who so chooses log out at any time (subject to a delay when "in danger").

Robert, I think they would complain if their target self-destructed, just to deny them their kill. They would call *that* combat logging.

Lots of NPC's have gotten away from me, when I start to win (a more frequent occurrence after the improvements SJA has made). I usually don't come screaming on the forums saying that it is unfair.

When I start winning using a *Cobra 4*, and they run away, I usually feel pretty good.

I will leave the rest for the students of the human need to dominate/feel superior, etc.

 

[May0]

So you are coming across the same commander time and time again........how?

Simple. CG and trade routes. If you're a pirate and you want to make money just hang out in the system (or one adjacent to it along a trade route) and just jump people as they come and go from the CG or TR. Depending on how popular the CG or TR is you can nab people on a fairly consistent basis. If someone is really grinding the CG or TR it would stand to reason your chance of encountering them would increase the longer you play.

Beware though. There's probably pirate hunters hunting the hunters doing this. Fly safe commanders...

 

[hiciacit]

How to deal with combat logging? Generally by pulling the plug.

 

[tupe12]

Here's something that;s going to get me perma-banned from ED

You people are angry at combat logging because it's "Unfair" or an "exploit", yet you're all fine when stuff that gives easy money accidantly happens. It's like you only hate a mistake because it doesn't actually give you anything.
When someone on the main discord server suggest that I combat log everyone lost it. (Even worsely then when Salome got killed).
I mean, people. Even the star wars community is at times less salty then EDs community. (And I say that having witnessed many many cry-babies)

Long story short: You people only hate something when it benifets the other person

 

[Conch]

If my enemy runs, i see it as a victory.

 

[Noctover]

People who combat log have no place in Open. Record a video of everytime they do it, make a montage, post it up share it around/put it on REDDIT. Cant name and shame on here but you can elsewhere and imho combat loggers deserve it. Ofc, getting 1 video of someone disappearing one time dosent do it, even a few times could be bad connection. If it is however consistently when shields drop many many times let people see how pathetic they are.

As far as i'm aware, there is little evidence of FD punishing combat loggers, but their is evidence out there of FD ignoring reports and even not watching video evidence before closing cases. I believe this is because a combat logger dosent affect FD, punishing one does effect future sales from that individual though.

 

[Morbad]

People who combat log have no place in Open.

Or Solo or Group.

Disconnecting without the menu to prevent the loss of assets is tantamount to the duplication of those assets and is a cheat irrespective of mode.

 

[Noctover]

How to deal with combat logging? Dont nerf decent ways of making money.

Corvette rebuy, 30-50 million. Some people think players should earn 1-2 million per hour, so each Corvette death you DONT combat log ideally requires 60-100 hours or grinding in their minds. Yeah, no. People are going to combat log.

Better ships higher risk. No problem here at all.

- - - Updated - - -

Or Solo or Group.

Disconnecting without the menu to prevent the loss of assets is tantamount to the duplication of those assets and is a cheat irrespective of mode.

Yeah, agreed.

 

[Herbrand]

One guy logged on me when he was... about 5 seconds from blowing up.
He had attacked me first in my PvE ship, I escaped with 15% hull, came back with my "Big Game Hunting" shotgun Vulture.

Bottom line? I won, I am not upset at all by the fact that he logged, although I understand that rebuy money is supposed to be a gameplay-limiting factor.

 

[tupe12]

The fact that I'm being proven right in less then a day is pretty sad

 

[Noctover]

The fact that I'm being proven right in less then a day is pretty sad

Nah you're really not. Losing your ship is a huge part of the game, IE. Imagine the game had godmode, once you got your ships you cant lose them, pretty garbage right? Well that's what pulling the plug allowed, full immunity to death. If im losing at Tennis i don't just lob my racket over my should and walk off, i think my opponent might have something to say about that. I don't often here people whinging in Wimbledon "Well it dosent effect you does it!"

If your playing ED but not willing to lose your ship, you're not actually playing ED, your just playing the mechanics.

 

[Herbrand]

Thought experiment: let us assume for a moment that a perfect implementation of the network prevents combat logging from ever happening: the result is, people who play in Open MUST maintain a healthy balance to cover all their rebuys, or lose their ship. Let us also assume that current exploits are patched, and all end-game careers earn more or less the same, say, 5 Millions / Hour.

The result would be that most people would probably start PvPing in smaller ships. I love my engineered Cutter, but its rebuy is ~50 millions, and the advantage it gives me in a firefight do not justify the amount of time I must spend to earn back the same amount.

Genuinely curious: do you think that time should be used as a currency to "pay" for persistently engaging in PvP?

 

[CMDR_Elver]

Only if killing unarmed ships is deemed a breaking of the game rules.

Combat logging - I.e. Using out of game tools for in game benefits is categorically against the rules and is fairly obvious. Therefore it can be actioned.
Killing unarmed ships isn't currently deemed breaking the rules, it's entirely in game and there is no statement anywhere by FDev saying that it's not allowed.

Harassment as defined by Frontier on the other hand is breaking the rules and can again be actioned.


"Morally reprehensible" and "against the rules" are different things.



Spawncamping in online games is a similar scenario. It's not cheating like using an aimbot or health/damage hacks and other cheats which can be actioned by the developers. The individual server admins may kick spawncampers but the owners of the game can't because it's arguably a part of it. They just put things in place like invulnerability for 3 seconds or whatever to deal with it. As Elite should with a karma system and/or crime + punishment.

The game does let the player log out in combat - using the delayed exit menu.

Sandro mentioned combat logging as one behaviour that might be taken into consideration if the potential karma system is implemented.

I tend to agree with a lot of this. Griefing and ganking are not against the rules of the galaxy, you have a ship put a big gun on it and away you go. It might be anti-social and agaisn't the law in a game context but that needs a proper Crime & Punishment to balance those issues out.

Combat Logging is something different as it is outside of the game and players are genuinely cheated out of a kill, it is totally not in the spirit of the game. Therefore, it requires some developer time to close this loophole with either a karma system or some other measure.

A karma system based of analysing behavioural data as I understand it. Players would be retro actively punished if deemed to be persistently combat logging. Storing loads of data sounds a bit big brother to me, punishments would have to be thought out. One benefit could be a good thing if people were to allow the potential for a player death. Persistent offenders might run the risk of having there characters reset and they would have to start again, when killed or even outright. But on the whole doesn't sound like a good solution the player robbed of a kill doesn't benefit and combat logging will still be a feature of the game.

Another idea i personally favour (I don't know how easy it will be to develop though) is for effectively there to be safe areas for players to exit the game i.e. stations and planets surfaces (perhaps with a time limit). Everywhere else is unsafe where loosing connection switches your ship into an A.I. mode or simply flies you ship at the last known speed and heading for a set number of minutes. This will allow players to finish combat loggers off or allow players time to log back in if a genuine lost connections. This kind of solution would act as a deterrent as there is no benefit to combat logging in the first place. The victorious cmdr gets the kill. Probably would be worth the time to develop that as you would save on the admin of a karma system in the long run.

 

[tupe12]

I never said that combat logging is good or bad, I was saying that it's the one exploit this community loses it over.

 

[Morbad]

Genuinely curious: do you think that time should be used as a currency to "pay" for persistently engaging in PvP?

I think free ships and zero consequence for failure is the single worst aspect of direct PvP in Elite: Dangerous.

I never said that combat logging is good or bad, I was saying that it's the one exploit this community loses it over.

Which is a significant over generalization.

switches your ship into an A.I. mode or simply flies you ship at the last known speed and heading for a set number of minutes. This will allow players to finish combat loggers off or allow players time to log back in if a genuine lost connections.

This system is not technically feasible with the current peer-to-peer architecture.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Or Solo or Group.

Disconnecting without the menu to prevent the loss of assets is tantamount to the duplication of those assets and is a cheat irrespective of mode.

Sue me.

 

[Noctover]

I never said that combat logging is good or bad, I was saying that it's the one exploit this community loses it over.

On the contrary, i find it to be the 1 exploit people put a back handed small fonted fine print "combat logging is bad" BUT....And then go on to say how its the big bad PVPers fault in the first place.

 

[RhymeRhyme]

Combat Logging is something different as it is outside of the game and players are genuinely cheated out of a kill, it is totally not in the spirit of the game. Therefore, it requires some developer time to close this loophole with either a karma system or some other measure.

Before that happens, the developer has to make sure that the game is balanced in a way that you actually have a chance to survive. At the moment, this is not the case. Due to "The Engineers", the game balance got totally cracked up. Players with high engineered ships can just massacre other players within seconds. If you don't have the time to engineer your ship, you're a victim @ every single encounter. I lost 75 mio. credits within a single night (OPEN = only reason why I bought and play this game) taking part in a CG. Even leaving the station without getting crushed was hard sometimes. For unexperienced players the chance to survive is 0.

So, I totally understand people logging before losing a huge amount of credits due to the rebuy costs. The Engineers brought a lot of insta kill potential to the game and split the community even more. Not only OPEN, SOLO, PRIVATE but now also PAY (TIME) TO INSTA WIN and I HAVE NO TIME an get INSTA KILLED. This is an extreme example but the reality is not that far from it.

One of my solutions was:

- Get killed by CMDR (PvP) ---- 1/10th of rebuy costs (and maybe some other less hard results like not all loss of data or whatever)

- Get killed by AI (PvE) ------- Full rebuy costs and lost of everything onboard like cargo and data.


This would lower the loggers a lot as PvE is easier to handle for everyone than e.g. an SDC Engineered Killer Commando. It would take away a lot of frustration from people who love PvP and get loggers all the time. It wouldn't touch the PvE side of the game.

I can see and I understand that PvP folks get frustrated a lot when their target suddenly "dissappears" before they can land the final hit. But, I can also understand that a CMDR who grinded for weeks to get a fancy Anaconda and only owns 1,5 times the credit of the rebuy costs, that he's not willing to loose weeks and months of work within an hour or two. This is the real problem that makes a lot of people pull the plug. The punishment can be very significant for some players. It literally could set them back to 0. There are people saying, nooo, that's not the reason. That is the main reason. So, very low punishment when getting crushed by real players might even turn a PvP encounter into a fun situation where you can actually learn how to fight as you are willing to stay, you're willing to experience a situation till the end, think what you can do better, ... if there's not much or all to loose.

 

[tupe12]

Before that happens, the developer has to make sure that the game is balanced in a way that you actually have a chance to survive. At the moment, this is not the case. Due to "The Engineers", the game balance got totally cracked up. Players with high engineered ships can just massacre other players within seconds. If you don't have the time to engineer your ship, you're a victim @ every single encounter. I lost 75 mio. credits within a single night (OPEN = only reason why I bought and play this game) taking part in a CG. Even leaving the station without getting crushed was hard sometimes. For unexperienced players the chance to survive is 0.

So, I totally understand people logging before losing a huge amount of credits due to the rebuy costs. The Engineers brought a lot of insta kill potential to the game and split the community even more. Not only OPEN, SOLO, PRIVATE but now also PAY (TIME) TO INSTA WIN and I HAVE NO TIME an get INSTA KILLED. This is an extreme example but the reality is not that far from it.

One of my solutions was:

- Get killed by CMDR (PvP) ---- 1/10th of rebuy costs (and maybe some other less hard results like not all loss of data or whatever)

- Get killed by AI (PvE) ------- Full rebuy costs and lost of everything onboard like cargo and data.


This would lower the loggers a lot as PvE is easier to handle for everyone than e.g. an SDC Engineered Killer Commando. It would take away a lot of frustration from people who love PvP and get loggers all the time. It wouldn't touch the PvE side of the game.

In my opinion a main issue is that the amount of time and cost it takes to make a PVP ship is simply to long and to expensive.

 

[RhymeRhyme]

In my opinion a main issue is that the amount of time and cost it takes to make a PVP ship is simply to long and to expensive.

Well, which goes into the same direction. But a lot of players don't want to do that. Traders or explorers don't want combat ships. But at least, they should have a chance to survive somehow without a huge time investment beforehand.