how does ED compare to SC ?

Juniper

Juniper
I actually just watched the Squadron 42 thing for the first time.

Gosh, that was obnoxious in the extreme. Was the presenter turned down from Fox TV? :eek:
 

Voyager_NL

Voyager_NL
Beachlight7 said:
Being later is a delay, there is no other way to see it.
The alpha ship flying was meant to be in November 2013.
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Wasn't that a Kickstart estimation of over a year ago?
There are disclaimers for these kind of guesstimations.
If you're not up to these kinds of changes then simply don't do a Kickstart and wait until the full game is released, bugfree.

It's not as if the whole development has come to a grinding halt, you never hear from the devs and you have to guess at what's coming out. So I don't see a need for worry.

If the only thing is that you're bummed that you haven't flown your ship yet let me ask you: what would you prefer?
- Fly you ship in a poorly performing environment that will retain into the final game
- Wait a few months get flying then in a better performing environment that can even be improved upon in the final version of the game

....
 

Beachlight7

Beachlight7
Voyager_NL said:
Wasn't that a Kickstart estimation of over a year ago?
There are disclaimers for these kind of guesstimations.
If you're not up to these kinds of changes then simply don't do a Kickstart and wait until the full game is released, bugfree.

It's not as if the whole development has come to a grinding halt, you never hear from the devs and you have to guess at what's coming out. So I don't see a need for worry.

If the only thing is that you're bummed that you haven't flown your ship yet let me ask you: what would you prefer?
- Fly you ship in a poorly performing environment that will retain into the final game
- Wait a few months get flying then in a better performing environment that can even be improved upon in the final version of the game

....
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I'm not bothered by all that. I don't even have SC account any more.
I'm just observing the REAL delays in the games.
5 months+ for SC, and looking like 2 months+ for Elite.
 

ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf
Voyager_NL said:
Personally I think a lot of people are screaming very loud how bad things are going but they don't take the time to listen to the developers to (try to)understand what exacty is going on. Even IF the development would be delayed... so what... they're making a very complex game, they're bound to hit some roadblocks along the ride.
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People aren't used to this new-fangled crowd funding thing. They find out about the project VERY early in the development cycle. They treat the changes in schedule as official 'delays' they would have experienced when following a title at the point when the publisher were heavily involved. Both Star Citizen and Elite could well appear years after the original ETA and normally we wouldn't have known, we wouldn't have seen more than a screenshot in a magazine at this point.

On the other hand we have the vast majority of backers saying "take as much time as you need to make the game right" which is fine, but I do wonder at what point does anyone draw the line? Could I theoretically open a company, propose a frankly outrageous game idea, raise millions from the excited kid's parents and sit around with a small group of concept artists and marketers for five, ten, thirty years producing small updates and telling people all the cool stuff we're not working on?

I wonder at what point crowd funded projects will start to be called vapour-ware again, both Roberts (Strike Commander) and Braben (Elite IV) are not exactly guilt free in terms of promoting projects that were labelled as vapour-ware in the past.
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
ZeeWolf said:
both Roberts (Strike Commander) and Braben (Elite IV) are not exactly guilt free in terms of promoting projects that were labelled as vapour-ware in the past.
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Must be me being thick but I am not sure I get you.

BUT To be fair Elite IV effectively WAS vapourware if you go back to when it was 1st announced imo.

Strike Commander on the other hand was real, came out and was a damn fine game. IIRC it came free with my 2x speed CDROM drive and sound blaster 16 bundle (a bargain at £120)
 

Dejay

Dejay
ZeeWolf said:
On the other hand we have the vast majority of backers saying "take as much time as you need to make the game right" which is fine, but I do wonder at what point does anyone draw the line?
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I guess when you stop seeing updates or when you start to think they'll run out of money. I've read somewhere that 2014 will be the "year of reckoning" for kickstarter, as many projects are due to be finished. Opinion might turn then, and crowd funding will probably mature. Teams with track record that are "trusted" with their projects will become preferred. I'll bet we'll see outright fraud somewhere in the future too.
 

Valenquo

Valenquo
Dejay said:
I guess when you stop seeing updates or when you start to think they'll run out of money. I've read somewhere that 2014 will be the "year of reckoning" for kickstarter, as many projects are due to be finished. Opinion might turn then, and crowd funding will probably mature. Teams with track record that are "trusted" with their projects will become preferred. I'll bet we'll see outright fraud somewhere in the future too.
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Already seen from time to time: Kickstarters where just about everything has been "borrowed" from different sources on the net and such.

But yeah 2014 has a lot of the PC legends release their games, so it is going to be interesting and see how many deliver their games. Other than Elite and SC we have Torment: Tides of Numenera, Project Eternity, Wasteland 2, Planetary Annihilation, Broken Age (which just got released).

Heh, it's like we are re-living the nineties ^_^
 

ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf
Mad Mike said:
Must be me being thick but I am not sure I get you.

BUT To be fair Elite IV effectively WAS vapourware if you go back to when it was 1st announced imo.

Strike Commander on the other hand was real, came out and was a damn fine game. IIRC it came free with my 2x speed CDROM drive and sound blaster 16 bundle (a bargain at £120)
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It got there eventually

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_Commander

In 1996, Computer Gaming World ranked it as the 13th top vaporware title in computer game history (due 1991, delivered 1993), stating "The haze you see from the cockpit is emblematic of this title's troubled development on the bleeding edge of technology."
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ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf
Mad Mike said:
ahh ok.

A 2 year delay....... a pretty big delay (and some rumours that full blown SC may be similar) but I (personally) still think that vapourware is a stretch.

but I see your point :)
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I just said he was accused of vapour-ware, I wasn't making any kind of accusation.
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Jenner
One thing I've been wondering about for awhile now is if 'early access' (in Steam parlance) games are not a great idea if your goal is to maximize your impact on your retail release. Elite and Star Citizen could both be considered early access, including the other kickstarter games mentioned here like Wasteland 2, etc.

Would games like Skyrim or GTA V have made the large impact they did if they'd had paid alphas/betas for months on end? Would the public tire of them before release? Heck, would *fans* tire of them? I can only speak for myself, but I'm tired of playing games in pre-release states. (Strangely, Elite seems to be the only exception to the rule at this point. Even SC has fallen prey - I haven't fired up my hangar in forever). Wasteland 2? Never play the beta anymore. StarBound? Nope.

Even the media has to get tired of games like that.

Anyway.... rambling.

I will say that I very much like the look of Star Citizen from the last few update videos. Man, I'd *love* it if I could drive one of those huge miner robots in Elite! That's the way mining platforms should have worked in Frontier! ;)
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
I agree Jenner which is why I am not in the alpha for ED, indeed it is why I am only in beta 2 (though whether I stand strong on that front is yet to be seen!!!!)

I love watching youtube vids and seeing updates on here, but playing too early a version could well take away some of the magic of the full game (for me personally)

It is also why I intend to start the game with a Sidewinder and 100 credits, despite having the option of a an eagle or a Cobra along with 4K.
 
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Juniper

Juniper
Alpha came "free" with my pledge level (as did beta) but I'm very much of the same mind as Jenner.

Hence why I haven't really played the alpha to death like some have. I've fired it up, seen where it works or doesn't on my system, filed bug reports, gauged a little bit of the performance and if there's anything I might need to upgrade or tweak about my system before release, and that's about it.

Won't start playing properly until Gamma I don't think.
 
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