How Effective is Silent Running in 3.3?

I don't partake in pvp, but I recall a video of the player having night vision on and all the ships were visible, so it might break silent running too by making you visible despite being cold.
You can see them with NV and shoot at them with fixed weps, but there is no target lock.
 
Once they hit you it lights them.up, so gimbals at all will work against them.once you have them targeted.
I'm not following you. Are you saying that if an ship fires on you while "cloaked", this negates SR and allows you to target them?

Disclaimer: No PvP experience at all.
Disclaimer: No PvP ability at all (I'm currently stuck in Solo). I'm asking what PvPers see / experience because I can't ask the NPCs. Well I can ask, but they'll just reply with, "And remember, we're the top 1% blah blah blah." [haha]

My current interest in "cloaking technology" is avoidance, not engaging in combat. I have as much fun escaping as others have destroying. Run, Forrest, run!
 
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Goose4291

Banned
I'm not following you. Are you saying that if an ship fires on you while "cloaked", this negates SR and allows you to target them?



Disclaimer: No PvP ability at all (I'm currently stuck in Solo). I'm asking what PvPers see / experience because I can't ask the NPCs. Well I can ask, but they'll just reply with, "And remember, we're the top 1% blah blah blah." [haha]

My current interest in "cloaking technology" is avoidance, not engaging in combat. I have as much fun escaping as others have destroying. Run, Forrest, run!
Yup, at least last time I played, they score a hit, they'll get lit up like a Christmas tree.
 
Re the Krait: As I understood it, that comment was not related to the physical properties of the ship(s), rather to the priority given to scanning different types of ships by the System Authorities. For example, if you jump into a system in a Python and I jump in a Krait, they'll prioritise scanning you first - basic profiling - and the Krait (for whatever reason) is lower down on the list than other comparable med/large ships.
In addition to this, I seem to remember reading somewhere that "local security forces" profile ships based on other factors too, even paint. For instance, a yellow, orange or green ship is supposedly less likely to be scanned than a black or graphite colored ship since "camoflage" colored ships are more likely to be participating in illegal activities. o7
 
That is correct. All the radar shows me is a general direction with the "scattered ghost" icon effect, if that makes sense.
It's really too bad the game doesn't have proper 100% radar stealth, as in no indication at all on radar that someone is out there. I'd understand if this would require special armor (expensive stealth armor that is as "paper-thin" as the default) and cold running, and perhaps even stealth engines. But my oh my, that would be fun. I'd love to sneak up on a miner and build a minefield around him.. Miner, minefield - it's poetic! And it would make mines great again :D

Make it happen, Frontier!


(Please note I'm not advocating for a cloaking device, as a stealth ship would still be visible out the window, to those with an observant eye.)
 
In addition to this, I seem to remember reading somewhere that "local security forces" profile ships based on other factors too, even paint. For instance, a yellow, orange or green ship is supposedly less likely to be scanned than a black or graphite colored ship since "camoflage" colored ships are more likely to be participating in illegal activities. o7
That sounds like "pay to win", which I thought for sure Frontier said cosmetics is not.. Also, if I'm flying a hot pink ship that's invisible on radar, the "hot pink" should make me stand out against the backdrop of space, thus catching the eye of said security force, who then notices I'm hiding my thermal signature, which sure seems fishy to me! A Black Friday ship, on the other hand, would theoretically not catch anyone's eye and thus sneak in undetected, if paint was a determining factor.
 
That sounds like "pay to win", which I thought for sure Frontier said cosmetics is not.. Also, if I'm flying a hot pink ship that's invisible on radar, the "hot pink" should make me stand out against the backdrop of space, thus catching the eye of said security force, who then notices I'm hiding my thermal signature, which sure seems fishy to me! A Black Friday ship, on the other hand, would theoretically not catch anyone's eye and thus sneak in undetected, if paint was a determining factor.
From previous dev chatter, each ship type has a conspicuousness value, and that the appearance of the ship (i.e. the paint state) also has a bearing.

NPCs have good eyesight, so once you are in the visual cone then no SR will ever help you because they can see your ship out the window.
 
Yup, at least last time I played, they score a hit, they'll get lit up like a Christmas tree.
this is not true. being hit by anything other than a weapon with emissive does not make you visible on radar.

now, if you are in SR and YOU hit another target, that is when you become visible by scanners despite being in SR. but once you stop firing you will return to being an unresolved contact.
 

Goose4291

Banned
this is not true. being hit by anything other than a weapon with emissive does not make you visible on radar.

now, if you are in SR and YOU hit another target, that is when you become visible by scanners despite being in SR. but once you stop firing you will return to being an unresolved contact.
That's what I was saying.
 
now, if you are in SR and YOU hit another target, that is when you become visible by scanners despite being in SR. but once you stop firing you will return to being an unresolved contact.
Does this include mines and slow munitions like torpedoes?

i have a build that falls completely off radar at 1.5km running cold. no silent running.
I want a ship that is invisible on radar at 1.5 meters [yesnod]
 
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Does this include mines and slow munitions like torpedoes?
any hostile act you take towards another ship, except ramming them since ramming ins't technically a hostile act, but you will auto resolve at that close distance anyway.

launching a hatch break limpet will light you up as well since that is a hostile act.
 
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you want the impossible!
It would be a fun and interesting addition to the game though.

Maybe if stations could scan you as you're approaching the landing pad as well security ships, we could get some gameplay out of this kind of build as well.
 
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AFAIK, 500m is the minimum. Cold + silent running.
Hold on, I thought Silent Running was the same as cold, in that you may be hot inside, but the outside was cold because you're no longer radiating heat. Are you telling me there is an advantage to being both in SR and cold INSIDE?
 
Hold on, I thought Silent Running was the same as cold, in that you may be hot inside, but the outside was cold because you're no longer radiating heat. Are you telling me there is an advantage to being both in SR and cold INSIDE?
There must be. Why else engineer a cold running ship and then go silent running with it? I don't do SR myself, but that's my observation.
 
AFAIK, 500m is the minimum. Cold + silent running.
about 250 with a properly outfitted DBS and an opposing ship with low quality and non-engineered scanners

Hold on, I thought Silent Running was the same as cold, in that you may be hot inside, but the outside was cold because you're no longer radiating heat. Are you telling me there is an advantage to being both in SR and cold INSIDE?
check out the video i posted above. there are differences. with cold running your ship will maintain a low heat signature. anything under 20% keeps you as an unresolved contact at distances greater than 250-750m depending. no need for heat sinks. these kind of builds can take further advantage of silent running because they generate less heat meaning they can stay in silent running without using heat sinks longer.

again, the DBS is the king of silent running but there are others out there that can take advantage.
 
It used to be that when I switched to SR when approaching a station, the ATC would get excited and say something like, "Where did you go, CMDR? You've disappeared from our scopes!" I've not heard anything like this since 3.3 dropped, and I'm still being scanned even when in SR.
I still hear this, but it was always more flavor than anything. They would say it to my silent Corvette, but not to my Courier when popping sinks, despite the latter having a lower sensor signature.

Still not getting scanned, but that's because I'm more of a full power descent sort and they rarely have time.

Related, but slightly different, it also appears that SR or running cold (heatsinks, thermal vent) no longer breaks an NPC's target lock on our ships. Can anyone confirm? I'm assuming this is a bug in the AI.
I haven't noticed any major chances with silent running since the last time they messed with it back in early 2.x.

It was always of limited utility and essentially eliminating the ability to fire while silent relegated it's primary use to severing missile lock and interfering with subsystem targeting.

Pretty sure it still works against NPCs, but it has always been best used before they spot you and when you aren't in their FoV, but I haven't done any real testing in a while.

How about PvP - while I'm sure the experts know ways to negate Silent and Cold Running, are you at least seeing the desired effect of target lock break?
Still seems to break missile lock beyond point blank range, if you haven't been tagged by emissive yet. However, it's still not good for much beyond that.

Isn't that only when they pop SCB's?
They pop sinks whenever they get sufficiently warm.

I don't think I've ever seen them pop sinks specifically to break lock...or maybe I haven't noticed. Most of my ships do not depend on target lock to deliver damage.

I'm assuming this also means that you can't acquire target lock with gimbals, turrets, and seekers, correct?
Turrets on fire at will use their own sensors and can engage almost anything.

Otherwise, a target needs to partially resolve, which will happen at any range if they lock their own guided weapons, or fire at you. Gimbal arc is dramatically lower vs. cold/silent targets that have only partially resolved.

However, emissive will light you up and cause you to fully resolve even at long range.

This is from 3.2, but I haven't seen or heard of any changes that would affect the way silent running works in regard to what is shown:
[video=youtube;WiHk9hMpLIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiHk9hMpLIA[/video]

You can see this DBX partially resolve when he locks torpedoes on me, allowing me to send an SLF after him, and then my turrets engage him despite him still being an unresolved contact on sensors.

Any body know how long emissive last... like seconds or minutes? If you do not get hit for like 20 sec do to chaff will you be back to ghost mode ?
It's five seconds, but there is no cooldown any hit from an emissive weapon renews it.

I don't partake in pvp, but I recall a video of the player having night vision on and all the ships were visible, so it might break silent running too by making you visible despite being cold.
Silent running has never done anything to one's visible signature. Night vision does help spot silent ships however, as it highlights almost everything with a neon green wireframe and fuzz out to 35km.

Bright ambient lighting can defeat NV though...which is not much help in space.

I'm not following you. Are you saying that if an ship fires on you while "cloaked", this negates SR and allows you to target them?
If you shoot someone, you partially resolve to them and are targetable, at any range.

It's been this way since well before the game was released.

It's really too bad the game doesn't have proper 100% radar stealth, as in no indication at all on radar that someone is out there. I'd understand if this would require special armor (expensive stealth armor that is as "paper-thin" as the default) and cold running, and perhaps even stealth engines. But my oh my, that would be fun. I'd love to sneak up on a miner and build a minefield around him.. Miner, minefield - it's poetic! And it would make mines great again :D
Our ships don't have radar, they have 360 degree IR sensors.

Stealth ships in space would be functionally impossible in a realistic setting. You could internalize and sequester all of your heat for a short period of time, but any use of thrusters, weapons, or active scanners would light you up, and the mass of surplus coolant (probably water as it has the best heat capacity) you'd have to carry would cripple your acceleration and thus your ability to achieve competitive delta-v vs. non-stealth vessels.

Anyway, I do agree it would be interesting gameplay.

AFAIK, 500m is the minimum. Cold + silent running.
Depends on ship. Small ships have smaller resolve distances when at minimum signature than large ones.

Minimum resolve distances for D4 sensors (without an LR mod) will range from ~200m to ~1km depending on the target ship.

There must be.
Except, perhaps, for missile locks, I do not believe their is.

SR is functionally the same as zero % heat for sensor resolve distances.
 
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