How exactly does hyperspace work?

Mrat13

M
Now, if this is mentioned somewhere else, I apologize:
I'm asking the above question, because I'm curious. How exactly can a ship in hyperspace go 'off course' like Jacques station? Because, and I've probably got this all wrong, jumps work in a straight line, right? So, if you follow the straight line between the Bubble and Beagle point, the original destination, you wouldn't end up at Colonia, no matter where you fell out of Hyperspace. Unless of course, I've completed misunderstood hyperspace, which is a possibility. Anyone care to elaborate?
 

Aldaris

A
Thargoid sensors basically (back when they were known simply as unknown artifacts). They caused damage to the hyperdrive and maybe other 'mysterious' stuff caused a malfunction in the hyperdrive. Hyperdrive malfunctions in earlier games could cause a mis-jump and put you way off course.
 

Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
Other than that, I always thought the theory was based on an Alcubiere Drive, a theoretical thingamajig. I don't know if it was ever confirmed or not, but it seems to fit.

Plus, for the Jacques thing, you only need two mistakes really - distance and direction. And base that on the above post by Aldaris. Hence you can see why I'm a Nobel winning Physicsalist.
 

777Driver

777Driver
[VR] Orodruin said:
With emphasis on ”similar”. The Alubierre drive is a theoretical solution to Einstein’s field equations that would allow closed timelike loops, whereas essentially all physics implemented in Elite break basic rules from relativity (even Galilean relativity).
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The concept behind ED's Supercruise is based on frame dragging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame-dragging

Interesting guide here - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/dcellos-science-guide-to-the-galaxy.106861/
 

Mrat13

M
Bottom Hat said:
Interesting points, thanks for elaborating on my reply guys @777Driver and @orodurin.

So if supercruise is like an Albuquerque drive, then hyperspace jumps are just magic :)


(Misspelt on purpose!)
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So basically everything can just be hand waved away because 'magic'? I know it's actually some sort of science, but any unexplained science is pretty much magic. And yes, that's as annoying as it sounds....
 

varonica

varonica
Mrat13 said:
So basically everything can just be hand waved away because 'magic'? I know it's actually some sort of science, but any unexplained science is pretty much magic. And yes, that's as annoying as it sounds....
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Umm, you want to spend 50 or 50 years flying to the nearest star? Because that's the alternative. There's currently no known way to exceed the speed of light, any game that involves traveling to another star has to essentially make stuff up for it to work. It can't be explained by science because if it was we would be able to travel to other stars in real life.
 

Mrat13

M
varonica said:
Umm, you want to spend 50 or 50 years flying to the nearest star? Because that's the alternative. There's currently no known way to exceed the speed of light, any game that involves traveling to another star has to essentially make stuff up for it to work. It can't be explained by science because if it was we would be able to travel to other stars in real life.
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You can still make it have it's own 'science'. In fantasy, there is such a thing as 'hard magic', which is magic but with it's own rules and limitations. Not having any rules at all, just means things can get really out of control really fast. It could take you to another galaxy, if you 'chose', because there's nothing saying you can't use it for that, even though in game you can't, which means game and lore suddenly don't match up (ruins immersion). These rules might only end up applying in ED, but it makes the universe of ED feel that much more real.
 

Halloweeen

H
I think getting people to go 21kly was probably more reasonable then getting them to go all the way to the 50+kly begal point from a gameplay prospective... I get to much space madness out in the black... Not planning to go back out till we get a navigation computer or faster travel.
 

CptArcher

CptArcher
varonica said:
Umm, you want to spend 50 or 50 years flying to the nearest star? Because that's the alternative. There's currently no known way to exceed the speed of light, any game that involves traveling to another star has to essentially make stuff up for it to work. It can't be explained by science because if it was we would be able to travel to other stars in real life.
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Aliens can do it, so why can't we :unsure:
 

Sapyx

Sapyx
I prefer to call it "hyperscience", rather than "magic" - this is a sci-fi game, not a fantasy game. The difference between sci-fi and fantasy is that in sci-i. questions like "how do I get from here (21st century Earth) to there (the spacetime where the sci-fi story is set)" and "how does this thing work" are not only allowed, but encouraged and expected; in fantasy, you're supposed to switch off the rational part of your brain and not ask such questions.

First, it should be pointed out that there are two different faster-than-light technologies in the Elite universal canon. The older tech is "hyperspace", the newer tech is the FSD. Jaques station seems to have had an older-tech hyperdrive installed, not a frame shift drive (which apparently does not work well on larger vessels). That's why he was able to make a single long jump, much longer than the FSD-powered carriers and capital ships we have experience with. FSD jumps take just a few seconds; hyperspace takes days, weeks, even months to get where you want to go. FSD travel between star systems is sometimes, confusingly, called "hyper-jumping", but it actually has nothing to do with hyperspace.

As for the theory on "how it works":

Hyperspace - also called "witch space" in the Elite universe, perhaps due to early copyright concerns over the use of the word "hyperspace" - is a variant on the standard "transdimensional travel" trope commonly found in sci-fi stories (such as "Star Wars"). In some not-entirely-explainable-to-21st-century-people way, hyperspace is an alternate plane or set of dimensions. Travelling in hyperspace is not bound by real-space's petty rules about "don't travel faster than light". Or, in some explanations, hyperspace's dimensions are compressed, so that travelling just a short distance in hyperspace equates to a huge distance in the real-world universe. As always, the difficulty with using hyperspace to go fast is making the transition between dimensions - "punching through" to get into hyperspace, then punching back out again to arrive at the intended destination. It's that "punching" that requires vast amounts of energy, the actual travel requires very little by comparison.

In Elite lore, a human spaceship in hyperspace is indeed following a preset course. Thargoid ships were apparently capable of much more maneuverability in hyperspace, but Human ships were not - you either arrived at your destination, or you didn't. Hyperspace travel, however, was prone to "mis-jumps". A ship suffering a mis-jump is knocked out of hyperspace, often someplace quite far away from either the departure point or the intended arrival. Jaque was, apparently, aiming for Beagle point, so was presumably travelling in a straight-line to get there, but ended up several thousand light-years off to one side of the straight-line route.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Bottom Hat said:
Other than that, I always thought the theory was based on an Alcubiere Drive, a theoretical thingamajig. I don't know if it was ever confirmed or not, but it seems to fit.

Plus, for the Jacques thing, you only need two mistakes really - distance and direction. And base that on the above post by Aldaris. Hence you can see why I'm a Nobel winning Physicsalist.
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I call them Albuquerque drives :D

EDIT: More seriously, Babylon 5's had one of the "better" representations of Hyperspace I've known, and is my go-to. The "Lore" of it is slightly different to Elite's, but the principle is cool.

If I understand Alcu.... that one... drives correctly, the best way to think of it is lying in bed with the blanket on you, and you pull the blanket over your head, until you emerge completely from the bottom of the blanket. If you pull in the wrong direction accidentally, you come out the side of the blanket instead of the foot, like you intended.
 
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Bottom Hat

Bottom Hat
Jmanis said:
I call them Albuquerque drives :D

EDIT: More seriously, Babylon 5's had one of the "better" representations of Hyperspace I've known, and is my go-to. The "Lore" of it is slightly different to Elite's, but the principle is cool.

If I understand Alcu.... that one... drives correctly, the best way to think of it is lying in bed with the blanket on you, and you pull the blanket over your head, until you emerge completely from the bottom of the blanket. If you pull in the wrong direction accidentally, you come out the side of the blanket instead of the foot, like you intended.
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Lol a kindred spirit!
 

Harrowdown

Harrowdown
Mrat13 said:
So basically everything can just be hand waved away because 'magic'? I know it's actually some sort of science, but any unexplained science is pretty much magic. And yes, that's as annoying as it sounds....
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I guess that's why nobody calls it science non-fiction. 🤔

Jmanis said:
If I understand Alcu.... that one... drives correctly, the best way to think of it is lying in bed with the blanket on you, and you pull the blanket over your head, until you emerge completely from the bottom of the blanket. If you pull in the wrong direction accidentally, you come out the side of the blanket instead of the foot, like you intended.
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Ok but then what does the Dutch Oven represent exactly? 🤔
 
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