How is combat logging still allowed in this game ? That's just crazy...

[RealNC]

Games that have a persistent world and pvp in them take care not to remove the player from the game for a certain amount of time after the connection disappears *AND* the player was currently in combat.

This avoids people dying while not in combat if they legitimately lose their connection, while still effectively preventing combat logging. The few cases where there's a legitimate disconnect during combat are ignored. **** happens.

There is a very good reason why the above is the status quo and why every such game should follow it.

ED is not a closed system anymore, where only helpful and mostly friendly backers participate. It's in the wild now, with probably a couple hundred thousand players. It needs to prevent combat logging. There is not way around it.

I do not see a reason why ED cannot do the same as these countless other games. Unless there's technical reasons (with the game using peer-to-peer multiplayer and all.)

 

[Cathalo]

I don't think FD really knows how to design a proper multiplayer experience. Being able to switch between solo mode and open in a matter of seconds is an obvious example of this. Solo and open need to be two separate modes. The lack of grouping mechanics and ability to play with friends in open mode is also a sign that they have no clue about how to create a proper multiplayer experience. Why are we surprised at all that combat logging is appears to be a valid mechanic in this game? Every design decision they have made in regards to the multiplayer game have shown that they clearly don't have a clue.

 

[ffr]

point? How can a retail mmo game be sold with such an obvious flaw,

This game is effectively prevented from penalizing logoff by the fact that its network/server reliability is so bad that the result would be many false penalties.

The multiplayer/mmo aspect of this game is garbage, i'm really disappointed.

I think Frontier would agree. They have withdrawn their MMO claim from their advertising.

 

[Alpha November]

I don't think FD really knows how to design a proper multiplayer experience. Being able to switch between solo mode and open in a matter of seconds is an obvious example of this. Solo and open need to be two separate modes. The lack of grouping mechanics and ability to play with friends in open mode is also a sign that they have no clue about how to create a proper multiplayer experience. Why are we surprised at all that combat logging is appears to be a valid mechanic in this game? Every design decision they have made in regards to the multiplayer game have shown that they clearly don't have a clue.

I think it's likely that FD have a better idea of how to put their game together than you do. Comments on modes can go in the solo v open thread where everyone can ignore them.

 

[Betelgeuse]

You know some players will cheat. You also know its possible to force quit (at least for the time being) therefore you know there is a risk playing PvP in Open right now your opponent may log. You obviously accept that risk (not that you like or agree with it but accept the risk it might happen).

So, what are your options?

1. You could complain publicly on the forum to gauge opinion to encourage FD to fix the issue - this thread is the result of that and therefore done.

2.You could report the player and trust FD takes some action (although likely you will never know).

3. You could hope it is already on their roadmap of fixes - if not then it will not likely change anytime soon.

So, it boils down to:

a: Play in Open and accept the risk some players will cheat.

b: Play in a PvP group with other like minded players that agree to a defined set of rules.

Of course, continue to complain loudly but that does not alter your options for gameplay right now. YOU have the choice. Telling other players how they should play the game will fall on deaf ears.

As for what I think? Who cares? opinions outside the FD design team do not appear to have much influence.

 

[ffr]

I think it's likely that FD have a better idea of how to put their game together than you do.

Evidence?

Frontier's track record in multiplayer seems to be one dismally selling rollercoaster game and that is all. I doubt anyone believes Braben's claim that game had 500,000 simultaneous players.

 

[Cathalo]

I think it's likely that FD have a better idea of how to put their game together than you do. Comments on modes can go in the solo v open thread where everyone can ignore them.

If their idea is to completely invalidate the risk vs reward mechanics of open play then they seem to be on the right track.

 

[lexandro]

Evidence?

Frontier's track record in multiplayer seems to be one dismally selling rollercoaster game and that is all. I doubt anyone believes Braben's claim that game had 500,000 simultaneous players.

You are playing it.

Whether you agree or not is a moot point. Frontier have built a game and are making money from it. You and others that belittle that effort can make no such claim

 

[Distance]

They should update the time the ship hangs in space on program close/log off to 30 seconds minimum 1 min maximum. I personally favour 1 minute.

 

[crushdepth]

Personally I don't care how someone disconnects, whether it is their fault or not, their ship should remain in space. Its not perfect, but it removes any chance of exploiting the system. Further more, the ship should stay in space for much longer than 15 seconds. You escape, only when you "actually" get away from your attacker.

No way. I would have lost my ship 10 or 15 times already due to disconnects while docking etc. The current very-forgiving disconnect recovery system is good, and it is appropriate given the amount of time ship loss sets you back (hours on a trader).

Is shooting a defenseless non-responsive ship with a disconnected pilot that much fun?

 

[Ghostickles]

Telling other players how they should play the game will fall on deaf ears.

As for what I think? Who cares? opinions outside the FD design team do not appear to have much influence.

I also could care less if some chap logs.
If he suddenly feels like a loser and doesn't want to play he isn't having fun.
People play games for fun, so 'no fun, bye-bye' is fine.
If your 'only option' for fun is PvP wins then try organizing some activities, don't try forcing participation.
Otherwise this thread is a complete opposite to a Care Bear's position, and those (to me) are just as silly.
Too far is just as bad as not far enough.
EDIT: tbh; a log out/disconnect timer would be nice for those who recently discharged weapons.

 

[lexandro]

With the amount of dockyard bugs making players explode, getting destroyed sitting in the hanger, and giving bounties for blocking the airlock when actually docked, making a ship persistent at log out for any period could quite easily result in thousands more players complaining much more vociferously than this argument.

 

[BigBadB]

If your 'only option' for fun is PvP wins then try organizing some activities, don't try forcing participation.

Nobody can be forced to participate in PvP in ED - if someone doesn't want to play in a PvP environment, they can play in solo or a PvE private group.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

With the amount of dockyard bugs making players explode, getting destroyed sitting in the hanger, and giving bounties for blocking the airlock when actually docked, making a ship persistent at log out for any period could quite easily result in thousands more players complaining much more vociferously than this argument.

I don't think anyone is even suggesting that other problems with the game shouldn't also be solved. But the solution is to fix those problems, not leave them in and use them as an excuse to leave PvP cobflict completely broken for those players who wish to participate in it.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

The frequency of genuine connection issues is generally very low these days.

Utterly false with peer to peer connections.

That's what you guys who keep crying about this don't get. This isn't WoW, where you're connected to a server with hundreds or thousands of other players online at once. This is Elite, where you're running most of the world on your own PC, with occasional data exchanges with a server. When you encounter another player, you make a p2p connection to that player. Hence the limit of 31 other players you'll ever see at one time. p2p is always buggy. Ask the Call of Duty players, they know all about it.

 

[ffr]

You are playing it.

Wrong. Before playing MP I'm waiting for them to fix it up.

Frontier have built a game and are making money from it.

Evidence? The last accounts show Frontier is losing money big time.

 

[Helvellyn]

Utterly false with peer to peer connections.

That's what you guys who keep crying about this don't get. This isn't WoW, where you're connected to a server with hundreds or thousands of other players online at once. This is Elite, where you're running most of the world on your own PC, with occasional data exchanges with a server. When you encounter another player, you make a p2p connection to that player. Hence the limit of 31 other players you'll ever see at one time. p2p is always buggy. Ask the Call of Duty players, they know all about it.

So how does the game decide who to make P2P connections with? How does it handle it when players legitimately leave an instance (e.g. hyperspace)? There needs to be some sort of matchmaking servers somewhere. If you can still talk to them you've not disconnected.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

So how does the game decide who to make P2P connections with? How does it handle it when players legitimately leave an instance (e.g. hyperspace)? There needs to be some sort of matchmaking servers somewhere. If you can still talk to them you've not disconnected.

I've said this before, but it takes seconds to remove the p2p connections to my router while keeping sync with the server. If any persistence were enabled, I could cut everyone's connection to my router, and I'd remain persistent on their computers, but they'd also remain on mine. There is no way to tell what or who broke a p2p connection.

 

[Alpha November]

Evidence? The last accounts show Frontier is losing money big time.

As far as I can see the 2014 accounts (on their website) do not show them 'losing money big time'. Probably a fairly normal pre-release year for a video games company. Its a chunky income type of business I'd have thought like most software development. Some years you release and make more money and sometimes you suck your waistband in.

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

There is a countdown when the ship is in danger. The devs did open up their design proposal with the community regarding combat logging before the first Alpha in 2013

But it does not prevent me from just disconnecting or blocking players from connecting with me. As we have a p2p network architecture there is 'nothing' the game can do about people just leaving. It literally working as intended. If you have a problem with that than stop playing that part of the game.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

As far as I can see the 2014 accounts (on their website) do not show them 'losing money big time'. Probably a fairly normal pre-release year for a video games company. Its a chunky income type of business I'd have thought like most software development. Some years you release and make more money and sometimes you suck your waistband in.

You should be more or less both right.
Frontier is making good money with Elite, but currently their investment to produce elite was bigger than what elite yields them as income. But they have no a working elite, which will has it's own worth and should continue to create revenue for many years. So they are making money, they just need some more time to get back all of their investments into the game.

 

[aRtFuL]

This is ridiculous, it seems like they kinda added the multiplayer aspect as an afterthought

It WAS an afterthought, if you look at their original kickstarter plan.

I remember they ONLY were planning to provide open multiplayer play IF they reach their second funding goal or something...

So in a sense it was an afterthought and you are spot on on that point.