Powerplay How is Powerplay not open only yet?

[GloatingSwine]

Probelm with CQC is that it cuts out a huge chunck of the rest of the game from the equation:

• ships
• engineering

I would love to have a far more better and variable CQC honestly, even if I am not the PvPer people would think (I am an open only PVE-er actually, a rare breed, the rarest maybe ).

And I totally agree that just making Powerplay Open Only would not help that much, I am totally aware that it would need a total redesign (my many threads about it are proof about what I am saying eheh), possibly something designed to value this MMO- like PvE/PvP mixed approach that many players crave from this game.

But it's very difficult to talk about anything "Open Only" and how to make it funny and engaging when we've got some people just flodding with "everything open only would fail" even if they ar enot actually interested in engaging in it.

First let's try something that could work that way. Then we check the feedback by users actually involved in it, to make it better.

As it happens for every part of the game.

If CQC had the full range of ships, modules, and engineering, it would be even less popular because engineering has made the meta too degenerate. CQC cuts all that out because that's the only way to have a non-degenerate relatively balanced field of combat.

It's difficult to talk about "open only" in the context of any existing feature because being open only does not materially improve any existing feature. It is a solution looking for a problem. It is always going to be the sticking point in any context it is raised in, and it is never going to be the actual solution to whatever problem it is currently being hung on.

Every attempt to sell open only is this:

Ditch the albatross, suggest solutions to the problems that work within the Elite network and mode model.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

If CQC had the full range of ships, modules, and engineering, it would be even less popular because engineering has made the meta too degenerate. CQC cuts all that out because that's the only way to have a non-degenerate relatively balanced field of combat.

You are being "tranchant": nobody says the current CQC should be totally ditched, again it's about adding features: there a big PvP community organising tournaments and other activities. Let's give them a possibility to do that without thinking about rebuys, or giving them an actual way to measure their ability, with ratings, and even tournaments organised by FDev themselves, giving options like "only a particular kind of ship allowed", or "this kind of engineered modules is banned" etc. Something similar like GT3 on playstation was: rooms with particular rules to join. It would be cool actually (and it would give PvPers only their dimension, if they want of course).

In the "fixed" version of the quoted post I reiterated my proposal to create an Open only volume of the galaxy - one possible way of giving those players who seek Open only game features a way to get all game features Open only without restricting them to Open over the whole galaxy.

This could be interesting, but it would be a shame to make people usually playing Powerplay (because in this thread is Powerplay we are actually talking about ) lose one of its key features, having to roam the bubble for their Power's interests. That's the reason why I think it's better to have more a "game mechanic" for anything Open Play more than a "chunk of space".

One could say that Colonia and Pleiades are quite far away to be not affected by Powerplay, but that would be impractical. A game mechanic to "force" people engaged in it in Open with no (or pretty minor) effects over the sub-layer (local politics by minor factions) would be ideal. People playing a "upper layer" would have no interests in playing the BGS (if this doesn't affect Powerplay as I proposed many times already), so coexistence would be possible.

Even now we've got PMFs living under a Power without being necessarily positive for it. Cut the thread the links Powerplay to BGS, and Powerplayers will be too occupied to do anything else, trust me.

 

[Robert Maynard]

This could be interesting, but it would be a shame to make people usually playing Powerplay (because in this thread is Powerplay we are actually talking about ) lose one of its key features, having to roam the bubble for their Power's interests. That's the reason why I think it's better to have more a "game mechanic" for anything Open Play more than a "chunk of space".

In my proposal the Open only volume would be a bubble all of its own, separate from the existing bubble.

One could say that Colonia and Pleiades are quite far away to be not affected by Powerplay, but that would be impractical. A game mechanic to "force" people engaged in it in Open with no (or pretty minor) effects over the sub-layer (local politics by minor factions) would be ideal. People playing a "upper layer" would have no interests in playing the BGS (if this doesn't affect Powerplay as I proposed many times already), so coexistence would be possible.

I disagree with the contention that forcing any player to play in Open would be "ideal", not least because each player's choice of who to play among precedes any may over-ride any desire that other players may have to play with them, in this game.

Even now we've got PMFs living under a Power without being necessarily positive for it. Cut the thread the links Powerplay to BGS, and Powerplayers will be too occupied to do anything else, trust me.

Indeed.

 

[GloatingSwine]

You are being "tranchant": nobody says the current CQC should be totally ditched, again it's about adding features: there a big PvP community organising tournaments and other activities. Let's give them a possibility to do that without thinking about rebuys, or giving them an actual way to measure their ability, with ratings, and even tournaments organised by FDev themselves, giving options like "only a particular kind of ship allowed", or "this kind of engineered modules is banned" etc. Something similar like GT3 on playstation was: rooms with particular rules to join. It would be cool actually (and it would give PvPers only their dimension, if they want of course).

And how does that sell the albatross?

 

[angusmadmac1]

For this to work we would have to instance all players in open ? PC with Xbox with PS ? and we know that fdev arent intrested in cross platform in any form

 

[badibeat]

In its current implementation Power Play in Open mode is just a gankfest anyway, at least at headquarter systems. I got serial interdictions including ganks by commanders pledged to the same faction - until it simply got too tedious and I switched to solo.

 

[Kira Mikamy]

In its current implementation Power Play in Open mode is just a gankfest anyway, at least at headquarter systems. I got serial interdictions including ganks by commanders pledged to the same faction - until it simply got too tedious and I switched to solo.

this is why powerplay need a completed revamp as Bard Voronwe says in the main topic.
no way to "defend" the actual powerplay

 

[CMDRAnadon]

I note with regret that the more we propose a positive change, a step forward, an improvement in the mechanics (there are many that are broken and never fixed), the more we are opposed. It seems that the best thing is not to act. Never propose anything but maintain the status quo.
So many proposals have been proposed on this forum, but all of them have been ignored or taken negatively by those who want to play comfortable. It is almost incomprehensible the behaviour of some people. And out there we still have requests for fixes to broken mechanics from over a year ago, but none of these major opponents to change have ever been seen to bring voice to those threads. Not even from MODs who seem more interested in maintaining this status quo to defend Frontier. I don't think I'm offending anyone by saying this as the facts are well documented and never seen to make a significant contribution to the discussions. Never has a CM or DEV intervened in putting the issue to the developers. When there is something to block there are specific people who systematically intervene. Let BGS or PowerPlay game mechanics be proposed and everyone will benefit.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I note with regret that the more we propose a positive change, a step forward, an improvement in the mechanics (there are many that are broken and never fixed), the more we are opposed.

If the proposed changes were positive for all players then I doubt that they would be opposed - which suggests that, while the proposals may include changes that are perceived to be positive by some players, they are not, in fact, perceived to be positive by all players, noting that players don't all want the same thing.

Let BGS or PowerPlay game mechanics be proposed and everyone will benefit.

"Everyone" includes those who have no interest in engaging in PvP when engaging in game features that form part of everyone's game.

 

[CMDRAnadon]

In this forum, those who want the game to be ultra-simple are given a lot of attention. An example of this is the easy credits that are made with certain activities and only after years something has been fixed and still not made "interesting". Whenever there is talk of BGS or PowerPlay there is always one moderator out of everyone who comes in and polarises the discussion about how Elite was designed for everyone. Which is also true, but where is it written that it should be made for people who can't use their heads? Why do you have to make everything trivial and simple or make the mechanics tedious and banal? Tell me in the EULA of the game where it is written. You systematically go against those who want to bring ideas and fix mechanics that have been broken for years. But is a moderator always supposed to have a say? Or as a forum moderator should he be impartial and manage communication and intervene only when necessary? We have a moderator who expresses from his untouchable role a point of view that is not required as a moderator. Will we ever have a discussion about mechanics without having to read "elite is for everyone" and then automatically "keep your dumb mechanics"?

Where were you all those times when people were reporting endless issues opened through official channels and never fixed? Why are you so active when people are trying to reason about a change of mechanics and never about how broken certain mechanics are? If you were always this active, you'd be credible. You are supposed to moderate and not speak your mind and then ban or close threads when you yourself have made the discussion degenerate. Do you MODs want to intervene? Fine, then do your homework by going through all the threads where people are constantly reporting bugs and mechanics and bring forward ALL the interests and not just your own.

 

[GloatingSwine]

If the suggestions about changes to the mechanics weren't always suggested alongside an albatross, people wouldn't spend all their time talking about the bloody albatross would they?

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Nothing can benefit everybody.

Mining did not. New exploration either. Thargoids are the same.

We should be talking about something else: niches to make people with different playstyles enjoying the game.

Oddly enough Open Only is that only gamestyle that should be castrated because some people so involved in the debate they just want to win some kind of argument because it's became some matter of principle to them.

Proof is what @Robert Maynard proposed, having a separate bubble: that's a punitive approach indeed, something like "frack them, if they want that thing so badly the should be excluded from the bubble, so far away from any system that matters".

That's how far this feud has gone, where honest proposals to achieve coexistence are silenced in endless floods and punitive ones ar eproposed instead by the very same people that claim they would drop the game if something open only would ever become part of the game itself.

The real secret is that we don't really know what would happen. You can't be sure a new game mechanic will be successful until it's released and becomes part of the game, making it something completely severed from the game at a point where you need to relocate is like asking for it to fail, it's preposterous.

I don't know (and I don't care) how this debate even started. Apparently you won the "forums war" because I only se people trying to silence any open only anything proposals and on the other side, step by step proposals for, making Powerplay even less necessary to not affect the players not interested into something like that.

And such proposals are usually done by leaderships of their respective Powers, competent people who dedicate their free time to help other people have fun.

Meanwhile we have opposers who usually don't know anything about Powerplay and claim that they know better, that such mechanics will surely fail.

Again: are you sure everybody is biased? Or maybe we have people extremly biased vs people with an acceptable level of bias?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

How is Powerplay not open only yet?

The bigger question is how did i miss this topic for almost 3 weeks?

So much popcorn missed!

Hold on, i'll put the music on!

 

[Bard Voronwe]

I suspect that very few actually "defend" the current power play. But the many proposals I've seen are basically an exorcism by Beelzebub. That's the only reason it looks like a defense sometimes. Who wants to replace an existing nonsense with total rubbish?

Not you, it's clear, so you are not forced to contribute. Game is wide. There's plenty of things to do better than trying to people to play your way.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Nothing can benefit everybody.

Mining did not. New exploration either. Thargoids are the same.

We should be talking about something else: niches to make people with different playstyles enjoying the game.

Oddly enough Open Only is that only gamestyle that should be castrated because some people so involved in the debate they just want to win some kind of argument because it's became some matter of principle to them.

See here's the thing about the albatross.

You aren't asking for something to be added to the game for you to do. No new mechanics, no new interactions, no alterations to all the broken boring stuff that doesn't work properly. What you are asking for is for other people to be forced to play the way you want them to.

If you want to play open only you already can. It's there in the menu for you every time you log in.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

No need to post in the forums if you just want to talk to yourself.

No need to answer that way unless you just want to sabotage other people's threads.

You aren't asking for something to be added to the game for you to do. No new mechanics, no new interactions, no alterations to all the broken boring stuff that doesn't work properly. What you are asking for is for other people to be forced to play the way you want them to.

You really picked the wrong guy to tell that I do not propose anything to improve the game. You guys are like broken records: check my other thread in this section, there's a full analysis about a new and improved Powerplay.
Some people that are already writing here answered admitting they did not read it through the whole paper, because they were only interested in the "open only" aspect of it.

Again: bias, crusade, sabotage. It would be useful to have a mod to bring the discussion into the right tracks...

 

[CMDRAnadon]

And it is clear at this point how it is your goal to interrupt discussions.

But why are you so anxious to block discussions when you know very well that the developers and mods of this forum are on your side? Immobility is perennial and you know that you are on the winning side. Do you also want to seize the forum for people who are reasoning about an existing gameplay that doesn't totally work? Why don't you put an initial POST to each section stating that only PRO-FDEV threads are allowed?

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Sorry if that hurts you, but breaking echo chambers is just too tempting
And even if you started this thread, that doesn't mean it's "your" thread.
(but this one wasn't even started by you)

Asyou said: didn't start this. This is a Open Play discussion only, so as you can see I am not asking you to let people talk to something else.

Just telling you have no idea what you are talking about and are just going for a crusade. A crusade that doesn't benefit the game, only your ego.

New gameplay features proposals vs NO NO NO NO BECAUSE I SAY SO.

As usual. But we are in topic now so... bring it on!

 

[SwordSmith95]

Personally, OOPP would be a great idea provided that FDev move all of the PP models to tech brokers. Alternatively, the PP (BGS) effects of a player in solo could be removed entirely so the effect is practical OOPP without the connection issues described earlier in the thread. But the bottom line is that it should still be possible, if not preferable to module shop in solo.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Personally, OOPP would be a great idea provided that FDev move all of the PP models to tech brokers.

That's the very thing I saw in every single Powerplay proposal the last few years.

EDIT

Oh and of course I agree with that.