How to avoid Gankers.

[DeletedUser191218]

FDEV themselves say Open is the most popular mode. I know plenty of people, probably more than you, who enjoy Open Mode. And no, they are not gankers or even regularly deal with gankers. Sure, Open isn't for everyone but it's not a wasteland.

Pull your head out of the sand and educate yourself. All there is to it.

Well I think I know more people than you....see, that kind of argument goes nowhere.

Ganking is rife in elite and it is driving players out of open, like it or not. I'd encourage players to continue that trend in order to force Frontier's hand.

 

[Hermione Granger]

Well I think I know more people than you....see, that kind of argument goes nowhere.

Ganking is rife in elite and it is driving players out of open, like it or not. I'd encourage players to continue that trend in order to force Frontier's hand.

This is false and nothing more than the standard PVE rhetoric we get all the time on threads like this.

The reality of the matter is that Frontier KNOW the C&P Systems sucks major butt, Frontier however seem to have no intention of fixing the issue since we have the mode system in place, it acts as both a fail-safe and a feature for preventing ganks against those who do not want to be subject to it. All you have to do to see this in action is look at a frontier live stream, they are always in Private or SOLO.

Well harry why are frontier in solo or private?

Good question, its because they don't know how to play their own game, and even if they did the game favors lawlessness over lawful behavior since the game makes almost no distinction between the two, you are wanted or you are not, and that's how the game determines how to treat you.

There is no "High Security" systems, its a lie. Police ships are absolute trash and fail to do their jobs, ATR are so strong they break any kind of sense of realism in the game.

And the worst part of all this.... it can be fixed, and I say this as someone who ganks whenever I see another player.


EDIT: If I knew frontier looked at the suggestion forum, I would build out an entire system for C&P that promotes both Criminal and Lawful playstyles.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Well I think I know more people than you....see, that kind of argument goes nowhere.

Ganking is rife in elite and it is driving players out of open, like it or not. I'd encourage players to continue that trend in order to force Frontier's hand.

Just off the top of my head here are some groups that socially enjoy Open Play in spite of your fear.

Inara Nexus: Small, out of the way systems supported by folks that frequent the Inara website.
The Spice Smugglers in Grebegus: cheeky little lovelies running contraband and causing trouble all over the place.
California Nebula: miners and explorers living out their in game lives in an underrated area of the galaxy.
Leviathan Scout Regiment: pro-Federal good guy group with dozens and dozens of Commanders.
Sirius Inc.: Maia focused group that just took Aegis' orginal HQ (check out the article in SagEye!).
LHS 20: A fair few Commanders and groups live there. Hardly a gankers paradise, far as I know.
Colonial Legionaries: bounty hunting group located in Ratraii.

Hell, just Colonia in general. The other day BigMaec ran into a couple CMDRs who had been undermining the Nameless. They just weren't fans of Anarchy but after we explained what's up with Carcosa these days they were thrilled to chip in. In fact, just got back to Robardin Rock an hour ago and got a nice message from one of them welcoming me back to the Nebula.

I can guarantee this is just the tip of the iceberg. Why have these folks gotten it figured out... and not you?

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

There's nothing wrong with a five vs. one situation.

Your lack of mirror neurons is astounding.

 

[rxay579]

I think you make a good point but Bigmaec's advice is still worth taking onboard (as you feel you already had). As you imply though, there is more to it than simple outfitting, situational awareness is at least as important and that comes through experience just as it did for you.

Yes, situational awareness is actually useful advice. Scan everyone, keep your distance, learn to see all accessible details (wanted, hostile, wing status) quickly.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Just off the top of my head here are some groups that socially enjoy Open Play in spite of your fear.

Inara Nexus: Small, out of the way systems supported by folks that frequent the Inara website.
The Spice Smugglers in Grebegus: cheeky little lovelies running contraband and causing trouble all over the place.
California Nebula: miners and explorers living out their in game lives in an underrated area of the galaxy.
Leviathan Scout Regiment: pro-Federal good guy group with dozens and dozens of Commanders.
Sirius Inc.: Maia focused group that just took Aegis' orginal HQ (check out the article in SagEye!).
LHS 20: A fair few Commanders and groups live there. Hardly a gankers paradise, far as I know.
Colonial Legionaries: bounty hunting group located in Ratraii.

Hell, just Colonia in general. The other day BigMaec ran into a couple CMDRs who had been undermining the Nameless. They just weren't fans of Anarchy but after we explained what's up with Carcosa these days they were thrilled to chip in. In fact, just got back to Robardin Rock an hour ago and got a nice message from one of them welcoming me back to the Nebula.

I can guarantee this is just the tip of the iceberg. Why have these folks gotten it figured out... and not you?

I never said no-one plays in open. I said the ganking situation is increasingly pushing people away from it. The existence of some people playing in open doesn't suggest otherwise.

 

[Helvellyn]

5vs1 shouldn't just happen in the first place... Except if you want a toxic sandbox like Rust, or when it's balanced around that like in Evolve.

I cant say those two games inspires me the biggest interest.

It depends. In an ideal world 5 v 1s shouldn't happen in certain places because in universe society shouldn't tolerate it and have sufficient measures to deal with it most of the time, just like non-risky places in the real world. It should certainly be possible though, and the mythical perfect game would have means to nudge players to those risky locations, preferably via encounters with other less dangerous players to build up skill along the way. The latter's the really tricky part, especially if you want to keep an illusion of a convincing non-player centred galaxy. Don't ask me how to do that!

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

It depends. In an ideal world 5 v 1s shouldn't happen in certain places because in universe society shouldn't tolerate it and have sufficient measures to deal with it most of the time, just like non-risky places in the real world. It should certainly be possible though, and the mythical perfect game would have means to nudge players to those risky locations, preferably via encounters with other less dangerous players to build up skill along the way. The latter's the really tricky part, especially if you want to keep an illusion of a convincing non-player centred galaxy. Don't ask me how to do that!

We dont need comparison with the real world frankly. Elite failed to convey realism in so many ways, you could just ask for proper matchmaking already instead of finding excuses.

 

[Schmack]

Maybe entering the CG should be like a signal source, with a threat level. You enter, you takes your chances. In open, that would be a higher threat level than in solo. In PvE, threat levels are advertised. In open play, it's just someone's whim to introduce their emergent gameplay into the mix.

 

[Schmack]

Finally had some time to look into your build.
Generally I think it is a bit on the low shielded side to survive a multiple-player gank, it would even cut too close for my tastes against single high-dps outfits.
I survived an attempted gank with my Anaconda with 800 mj against a frag FedCorvette just barely, with 3% hull. Next engagement with 1100 mj was a piece of cake, I survived without hull damage. With my 950 mj Krait Phantom I survived everything DG2 could throw against me. But as said before, if you run into a 4-wing gank you're generally toast if you make just one single mistake, like wrong pips (yours was correct by the way, 240 is the classic mistake, 420 is survival), or fumbling with the escape system or getting hit by a grom.
The second thing you said I want to comment is the 60 second remark. I know timeflow is strange under attack, minutes seem like instantly gone, and seconds seem like eternities.
But a highwake takes 15 seconds plus the cooldown if you submit (and you ALWAYS submit!), so even if hit by a grom you should generally escape after the cooldown in the span of a minute. So I guess you made another mistake here and either didn't submit or botched the highwake. You can preselect a system in range and apply a button to that choice. That's generally the first thing I do if entering a contested system.

If you're in a non-PvP outfit, the first thing you should do is check the bandwith. >600 bit and there is another CMDR.
Second thing to check is if its a rectangle or triangle. Nowadays that's a bit unclear, as most gankers activate the interdictor only shortly before, and explorers run as triangle due to FSS activated.
Obvious "problematic" ships are Kraits, FdLs, Corvettes, Cutters, etc... If you are sufficiently far away, you can scan them to if they are in a wing (bad sign) and/or if they have an interdictor (bad sign). Also you see if they are wanted (very bad sign) or if they have clown avatars (murderhobo sign )
If there are any bad signs, it's up to you: continue? drop to normal space to possibly change the instance? highwake to next system for another try? All possible.

And the last thing you can do is use another mode - which is perfectly viable. I played more then half of my 2900 hours in Mobius, that's totally cool.
But don't blame the game, or open for mistakes made. And please don't try to tell others open is a hellhole. It's not. Certain systems are dangerous, and if I'm in a ship that stands no chance to survive an attack, I have no problems to fly to an engineer in solo. But generally open is another completely different game, because you can run into danger about everywhere, and nothing is as predictable as it is with NPCs.

You give good advice per the usual, but how many of these advice posts take into consideration the fact that most CGs are about doing something other than outfitting to kill other players? It's like saying "I'm going to force you into a wrestling contest, so get better at wrestling" when someone shows up to help build a fence.

 

[znôrt]

what's up with Carcosa these days

huh?

seems anarchy has been working out sweet in carcosa, people are elated, happy, enjoy civil liberty and in full investment ... and just now spreading the light to union. a noble goal indeed!
https://www.edsm.net/en/faction/id/77026/name/The+Nameless

i always knew you were a bunch of hippies ...

 

[rxay579]

Yes, all the good advice in the world won't save you if you're "chatting, not paying attention" as a wing comes zeroing in on you.

Bad advice for Elite long term: Don't be social, we're only here to fight and kill each other like pit fighters.

Of course you're dead against 5. Why shouldn't you? A game balanced so that you can win against 5to1 odds is rather unbalanced. The trick is to don't get into such a situation.
You said yourself, you were distracted. So you dun goofed.

No advice, just stating the obvious: overwhelming force is unopposable. In the situation I mentioned, I should absolutely not have "won". However, I didn't outfit to win, just to try to survive those 15-20 seconds to high wake. Unfortunately, once the damage starting coming, I was guaranteed dead due to the lock in effects of the special modules.
Specialized gank squad, no escape, no gameplay, no learning, no fun, just dying.

whoa there! i think bigmaec knows very well how to anticipate and avoid a gank, you obviously don't, so relax a bit.
... (quote shortened) ...
in the situation you describe ... there would be clearly something wrong in the game if 5 dedicated combat ships focusing on a transport python couldn't dispatch it in seconds, no matter the protection, engineers or not. this would not have happened if you had been, well, paying attention.

See above.

Finally had some time to look into your build.
Generally I think it is a bit on the low shielded side to survive a multiple-player gank, it would even cut too close for my tastes against single high-dps outfits.
... or fumbling with the escape system or getting hit by a grom.
The second thing you said I want to comment is the 60 second remark. I know timeflow is strange under attack, minutes seem like instantly gone, and seconds seem like eternities.
But a highwake takes 15 seconds plus the cooldown if you submit (and you ALWAYS submit!), so even if hit by a grom you should generally escape after the cooldown in the span of a minute. So I guess you made another mistake here and either didn't submit or botched the highwake. You can preselect a system in range and apply a button to that choice. That's generally the first thing I do if entering a contested system.

Low shields? I could barely have had more effective shield strength in that configuration. PVE fit, remember; I'm trying to do something that isn't just PvP.
Also, don't get hit by a Grom missile isn't great advice; "Well I see your problem here, did you try not getting shot?"
It was 64 seconds from first shot to registered death; I doubled checked the game logs. Is it weird that the game keeps logs forever?
True, the sense of time gets distorted as adrenaline kicks in; the only thing to do about that is to trigger it often enough to get used to it.
There was no interdiction, I was a sitting duck with limpets scooping escape pods. I was the most well defended seal they had clubbed up to that point; I got in touch with them to ask what I could have done better and came back with "get better at situational awareness", and "stop defacto trusting people". They specifically remarked that the shield config was pretty decent.

If you're in a non-PvP outfit, the first thing you should do is check the bandwith. >600 bit and there is another CMDR.
Second thing to check is if its a rectangle or triangle. Nowadays that's a bit unclear, as most gankers activate the interdictor only shortly before, and explorers run as triangle due to FSS activated.

Keeping your bandwidth meter onscreen at all times seems like PvP advice. If it's critical to everyone, there should be dozens of long threads demanding that FDev put a warning system to work (maybe something more subtle than the blaring sirens and flashing lights seen when overheating) to work whenever another CMDR is detected in the area.
As far as the rectangle / triangle; that whole situation is just complicated. There are false positives (e.g. deploying limpets deploys hardpoints) and there are gankers mucking up building social conventions for player encounters.

And the last thing you can do is use another mode - which is perfectly viable. I played more then half of my 2900 hours in Mobius, that's totally cool.
But don't blame the game, or open for mistakes made. And please don't try to tell others open is a hellhole. It's not. Certain systems are dangerous, and if I'm in a ship that stands no chance to survive an attack, I have no problems to fly to an engineer in solo. But generally open is another completely different game, because you can run into danger about everywhere, and nothing is as predictable as it is with NPCs.

I don't blame the game or the game modes and didn't mean to imply anything of the sort; the game is freaking awesome and I'm happy to have the game modes as options. The game is little unbalanced in areas, but it's getting tweaked.
It's kind of sad to me that the general advice of "don't fly anywhere popular or well traveled in Open if you're not PvP fit and ready for combat" is accurate.

 

[Morbad]

Your lack of mirror neurons is astounding.

This is one of my benchmarks for an enjoyable PvP encounter. It started off as a 2v1 and became a 5v1, with my CMDR the one.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyX8oPhgPZ8


My only real complaints, regarding game mechanisms directly related to this encounter were the relative lack of consequence, for both sides, and the rapidity of the turn around possible (I shot down the same CMDR three times in the same fifteen minute encounter).

We dont need comparison with the real world frankly. Elite failed to convey realism in so many ways, you could just ask for proper matchmaking already instead of finding excuses.

One lapse in verisimilitude does not excuse another.

Ideally, 'proper matchmaking' in a game like this would place everyone's characters where those characters are, with no regard gamist balance impositions, and nor any regard for the whims of players involved, other than mode choice and in-game locale.

If I take my CMDR to Freeport and there are fifteen hostile CMDRs at Freeport, my CMDR should encounter fifteen hostile CMDRs.

Bad advice for Elite long term: Don't be social, we're only here to fight and kill each other like pit fighters.

No one is suggesting you can't be social.

I like to think my CMDR is relative social. He greets people, assists them when they appear to need assistance, defends himself when necessary, and avenges himself when the situation calls for it.

No advice, just stating the obvious: overwhelming force is unopposable. In the situation I mentioned, I should absolutely not have "won". However, I didn't outfit to win, just to try to survive those 15-20 seconds to high wake. Unfortunately, once the damage starting coming, I was guaranteed dead due to the lock in effects of the special modules.
Specialized gank squad, no escape, no gameplay, no learning, no fun, just dying.

My CMDR has never lost a ship in an encounter where he didn't stick around to fight, at least initially. This includes plenty of encounters where he was in a trade ship pulled over by dedicated 'gank wings'.

It's kind of sad to me that the general advice of "don't fly anywhere popular or well traveled in Open if you're not PvP fit and ready for combat" is accurate.

The best way to interact, socially or otherwise, is from a position of strength (which comes in many forms), and that doesn't just apply to games.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

Ideally, 'proper matchmaking' in a game like this would place everyone's characters where those characters are, with no regard gamist balance impositions, and nor any regard for the whims of players involved, other than mode choice and in-game locale.

If I take my CMDR to Freeport and there are fifteen hostile CMDRs at Freeport, my CMDR should encounter fifteen hostile CMDRs.

Proper matchmaking would allow likeminded people who could get together with a decent latency to shoot at each others, and even propose options to balance the game by ship tiers and engineering levels so we're not stuck with one grandfather meta. Even get objective based scenarios so logging is not a problem anymore.

Your benchmark of fun is pretty low compared to another pvp experience you could have in another game. Having ships warping and logging in and out isnt realistic at all.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Your lack of mirror neurons is astounding.

See Morbad's video. I've also escaped from worse odds than 5v1. I'm sorry you're bad at the game, I guess?

I never said no-one plays in open. I said the ganking situation is increasingly pushing people away from it. The existence of some people playing in open doesn't suggest otherwise.

I wasn't claiming you said that.

I'm contesting your notion that Open is a slowly dying wasteland. You couldn't be more wrong. You know what's funny? Our little adventure in Carcosa has been so successful because we've been playing in Open and making friends with the CMDRs we meet.

Frankly, I'm starting to believe the anti-Open crowd are the anti-social ones and are just projecting that bias onto everyone else.

huh?

seems anarchy has been working out sweet in carcosa, people are elated, happy, enjoy civil liberty and in full investment ... and just now spreading the light to union. a noble goal indeed!
https://www.edsm.net/en/faction/id/77026/name/The+Nameless

i always knew you were a bunch of hippies ...

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Up until recently there was a very bad taste in Colonia's mouth regarding the Nameless due to FDEV godmodding a CG and a general dislike towards Anarchy. Us rollin' in and being a bunch of good time hippies has turned that around.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Bad advice for Elite long term: Don't be social, we're only here to fight and kill each other like pit fighters.

Here's some better advice: use your head and don't be social in a place you could get your butt shot off.

 

[znôrt]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Up until recently there was a very bad taste in Colonia's mouth regarding the Nameless due to FDEV godmodding a CG and a general dislike towards Anarchy. Us rollin' in and being a bunch of good time hippies has turned that around.

i approve these hippies!

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

See Morbad's video. I've also escaped from worse odds than 5v1. I'm sorry you're bad at the game, I guess?

That was that or a mum's joke.

I responded to Morbad. You're fine with 5vs1 and already grinded your way to pvp. I assume you couldnt even project yourself in the shoes of a new player for one sec.

But please, boast about your prowess. We are so interested...

 

[rxay579]

...
No one is suggesting you can't be social.

I like to think my CMDR is relative social. He greets people, assists them when they appear to need assistance, defends himself when necessary, and avenges himself when the situation calls for it.
...

When I think of being social, a certain level of trust is implied; trust that the other party or parties aren't going to employ sociopathic behaviour (e.g. "I'm bored, let's kill this guy").
The advice that everyone should constantly be on guard because there are roving kill squads seems to imply an unhealthy social environment.
You're getting me off topic, though.

...
My CMDR has never lost a ship in an encounter where he didn't stick around to fight, at least initially. This includes plenty of encounters where he was in a trade ship pulled over by dedicated 'gank wings'.
...

I'm not meaning to imply that all encounters are the worst encounters as indeed they aren't; I'm just conversing in a thread of "how to avoid gankers".
Yes, there is plenty of solid advice on how to effectively escape an encounter with one or two opponents.
If you regularly survive dedicated 'gank wings', I'm thinking that they are either underpowered or you've started running long before you attempted to communicate and hence, eroding the social aspect. If you have some secret to it, please share it; I read threads like this to look for useful advice.

...
The best way to interact, socially or otherwise, is from a position of strength (which comes in many forms), and that doesn't just apply to games.

That's sounds like advice outside the context of the thread. Not going to derail here even if it's interesting.


And now I see my problem. This thread isn't about surviving gankers, it's a joke about "avoiding gankers". I'm posting in a troll thread.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

That was that or a mum's joke.

I responded to Morbad. You're fine with 5vs1 and already grinded your way to pvp. I assume you couldnt even project yourself in the shoes of a new player for one sec.

But please, boast about your prowess. We are so interested...

It's not about prowess in PvP it's about promoting competency and telling folks that you can do it!

Believe it or not it works better than low quality jokes about my mother or brain function. Jeeze, she doesn't even play the game but understands this stuff better than a lot of you.