Horizons How to learn and gain combat experience / training in larger ships (Python and larger)

Yes, I only use weapons that are most effective against any given target by switching fire groups to "activate" or "deactivate" them. I start by putting all my turrets in Target Only mode as this mode means that you have the most control over how your turrets operate. As an added bonus your turrets don't generate any bounties in Target Only mode even if an NPC accidentally flies through your turret fire, which makes this mode very useful for "sniping" a hit on a target that the cops are attacking in a RES so you can get "credit" for the NPC kill without risking a bounty. So I'm going to assume that you're using turrets in Target Only mode (you can set this in the right HUD panel under the right-most tab where you can set orbit lines, etc).

What I do to maximize my turret control is that I set up two fire groups, one with turrets and one without. I bind whatever my main weapons are to primary fire and my turrets to secondary fire. Then I set up a second fire group that is identical except that it ONLY has the primary fire weapons grouped and I leave the turrets unbound in the second fire group. Once I target an enemy I "fire" the turrets with the secondary fire button. At that point your turrets will continually TRY to fire if the enemy you have targeted is within their fire arc. This means that you can continually maneuver to optimize your firing angles and any turrets with line of sight that were set to Target Only will try to fire as long as there is power in the weapons capacitor, without needing to pay any more attention to them other than maneuvering to maximize their fields of fire.

The downside to how turrets work is that once you've set them to fire at a target there's no easy way to turn them "off" again. Pressing the secondary fire button again in this instance does nothing as the trigger only turns the turrets "on". So if you want to turn them "off" you have two options. The easiest option here is to simply change fire groups to the second group that includes everything EXCEPT the turrets. This will effectively turn the turrets "off". If you then press "Cycle Fire Group" again you can use secondary fire when you want to turn them "on" again. In practice whenever I turn the turrets "off" I press the "Cycle Fire Group" button quickly twice to turn them "off" and then immediately switch back to the original fire group. At that point if you want the turrets to fire again, you just press secondary fire button to turn the turrets back "on". It's a bit of an annoying method but is the most efficient way I've found to rapidly turn the turrets "on" or "off" because for some reason FD hasn't implemented a proper turret "toggle" button. Alternatively you can quickly deselect and reselect your target but I find it's easier to use the fire group method instead.

The reason why I want this degree of control over my turrets is that I use energy-intensive and heat-intensive beam turrets and I often won't find the power draw and heat generation to be optimal in many circumstances. Against small targets I almost always keep my turrets firing as they are powerful enough to damage most smaller ships even on their own. Against larger ships I usually only keep them on to take down shields rapidly, otherwise they're usually turned off. This lets me switch back and forth between turret usage as needed depending on the target. If you're using pulse turrets that draw much less power and heat than beams you might not even need to switch back and forth like I do especially with your Anaconda's power distributor. The beams turrets I use are actually not very efficient in terms of either power usage or heat but they give me the best alpha strike damage which is why I use them to rapidly drop my target's shields as quickly as I can. I find against high-level NPCs flying fast/maneuverable ships that also have strong shields and use SCBs, like an Elite FDL, I need to get as much damage as possible in a short firing window and I find beams are good secondary weapons to help with this.

When 2.2 launches you will have the option to launch the fighter with an NPC doing the piloting for either the launched fighter or for your main ship. So I would just keep flying your Anaconda and let the NPC try to do what he can do use the fighter effectively, unless of course you "trust" the NPC to fly your Anaconda better than you can which it probably won't be able to do even if it's an Elite ranked NPC (apparently we can hire different ranks of NPC and level them up in combat as they gain experience).

You're very welcome, happy to help. :)

Thank you for another very in depth explanation! I hadn't thought of setting up two fire groups for the turrets! It's a good idea! You explained that very well and in layman's terms so it's very helpful indeed!

Also, I have the turrets set to 'fire at will' at the moment. Sounds like this is a bad idea on my part. It's not been a problem tho as I always avoid a battle at the moment. So it's a mistake I can correct.

The shield cell bank is something I'd parked at the back of my mind, but it's a timely reminder to use them. In terms of additional power draw, how much do they impact upon weapons once 'charged', ie I presume they work by drawing power from the PD until charged and then only draw more power after being activated? I'll have to go read up on them some more.

What is the situation with hull bulkheads / armour? Is there an option that gives good protection but is also good for general purposes so that it can be fitted and forgotten about? That way I can use the conda as a trader for CGs etc but also be able to defend myself when needed.

All this help is just Awesome! I'm blown away by how willing ppl are to share their knowledge!
 
I might buy a conda this days so this thread is very helpful, but, how narrow is this arc of firing of turrets? Is so thin and you need to maneuver so intense? As I seen NPC condas shooting at me with those turrets in almost any position, except getting them from below in some cases, but they seem with wide spread of shooting view. Or NPC have different stuff? :)
 
If I may be so bold... I did a video a while back showing how to survive post 2.1 interdictions in bigger ships. In this vid I'm flying a weaponised but fairly basic spec Conda, and carrying 400t of cargo. The hints in here are valid for general Conda combat, and note that I'm running gimballed multi cannons primarily, there's just two small turret pulse lasers underneath which frankly do        all.

[video=youtube;T2aymG-7BUI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2aymG-7BUI[/video]
 
You can get some easier combat practice by entering a USS that is marked Threat
Level 1. These can be found most anywhere, but it is probably best to choose a high security system. That way the police will help you out after a bit. Carry some engineer cargo or gold or something. Drop into the USS. There is usually one pirate in there. They will scan you and then attack. Don't attack them first unless they already show up as wanted. Otherwise you'll get a bounty yourself. In a high security system the police will show up after a little while and help you out. If you see more than one pirate just wake out. This allows you to control the situation, and no extra NPCs will show up. You can take your time knowing you will only have the single opponent.
 
The way I use FA off to get more agile ships in my sights is as follows. I use gimbaled weapons rather than turrets:

Make sure I have some speed ~100
Hit FA off and cut throttle - if you don't you carry on flying in an arc just not such a tight one (I guess this assumes you are using a throttle stick when I used keyboard it essentially happens automatically).
Maneuver your ship to point at target
At this point I normally turn FA on and move throttle to blue zone as it is much easier to keep your nose steady with FA on.
Fire
Repeat

This maneuver really amounts to flying backwards

You can practice it when leaving a station - don't open fire though ;)

Also practice using lateral thrusters for avoiding being rammed.

Flying backwards FA on is another technique to try. I don't find it very satisfying though.
 
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Thank you for another very in depth explanation! I hadn't thought of setting up two fire groups for the turrets! It's a good idea! You explained that very well and in layman's terms so it's very helpful indeed!

Also, I have the turrets set to 'fire at will' at the moment. Sounds like this is a bad idea on my part. It's not been a problem tho as I always avoid a battle at the moment. So it's a mistake I can correct.

Some players prefer Fire at Will because it requires less involvement to manage the turrets as they will automatically attack anything that attacks your ship. This can be an advantage in that it can sometimes make the most efficient use of your turrets and can be useful when you're fighting multiple targets but it can also draw a lot of attention from enemy ships and you often won't want this. For this reason I prefer Target Only as the turrets will only attack the specific ship I want them to.

The shield cell bank is something I'd parked at the back of my mind, but it's a timely reminder to use them. In terms of additional power draw, how much do they impact upon weapons once 'charged', ie I presume they work by drawing power from the PD until charged and then only draw more power after being activated? I'll have to go read up on them some more.

From what I can tell I don't think that SCBs need to actually draw power from the Sys capacitor to function and I have even accidentally triggered one during supercruise so my understanding is that as long as your SCB module has power from the power plant that should be all it needs to function. There may be some minimal Sys draw associated with an SCB but I haven't seen SCBs refuse to fire the way that chaff can sometimes refuse to operate when your Sys capacitor is low. I only use a small SCB in my Python (to minimize internal space/weight and power draw) but for a large ship like the Anaconda the limiting factor with SCB use will probably be heat spikes rather than power draw. It's worth noting that for some ships the heat spike that an SCB generates can overheat your ship very quickly and in my Python (which runs rather hot) I will avoid firing my weapons or boosting for a few seconds after my SCB is fired. In particular using boost on a ship with dirty drive tuning can generate a lot of heat and my Python also uses incendiary muticannon rounds which have a high thermal load as well. In ships with lots of internal slots you might carry more than one SCB and activate/deactivate the modules to save power draw as a way of carrying more SCB ammo, i.e., when the first SCB is out of ammo then deactivate it and turn on the second SCB module. Unlike chaff use where it can be very helpful having two chaff modules available at the same time (due to chaff cooldown times) and you can easily alternate fire between the two chaff modules there are not many cases where you will really need a dual SCBs setup continually powered as the heat spikes mean that you won't usually want to fire more than one SCB at any given time.

What is the situation with hull bulkheads / armour? Is there an option that gives good protection but is also good for general purposes so that it can be fitted and forgotten about? That way I can use the conda as a trader for CGs etc but also be able to defend myself when needed.

I always put Military alloys on all of my ships (except my Type 9 which is currently parked and collecting dust) because I find it provides good overall protection without the excessive cost of the specialized reflective/kinetic armors. Prior to 2.1 I used to run some ships with reinforced alloys to save weight but I've found this is less viable in 2.1 with all the Engineering mods on weapons so now everything I currently fly, including my long-range Asp and Diamondback, use Military alloys. I just accept that my ships will be a little slower in terms of FSD or boost due to military alloys and even with the weight penalty my Asp and Diamonback are still managing 37 ly jump range fully armored. I haven't made any armor mods yet as they are locked behind Selene Jean and I refuse to do any mining so I don't really have any experience with modding armor but in general I would advise military alloys on all ships if you expect to be interdicted or use your ship for combat. Even with a good thermal shield mod on my Python I have been rammed by larger ships and suddenly lost my shields and in those cases the military armor has allowed me to continue to fight rather than immediately needing to run away.
 
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Here's a short video I did of how to use a Threat 1 USS as a place for combat testing or practice.

I'm even using an Anaconda in the video, and it shows the use of turrets.

Mine are set to Target Only, and I trigger them via the secondary fire button. My big Multicannon is on the primary button, although I barely use it in this video because I was testing the turrets.

It should give you a good idea of how to get some pretty safe combat practice in :)

[video=youtube_share;ImLd9UhPjdA]https://youtu.be/ImLd9UhPjdA[/video]
 
I am of the opinion that for PvE with a large ship you can get away without military alloy. SCB can help you keep your shields up and an Anaconda already has a very generous amount of armor. You can add some class 2 and class 3 HRP if you feel the need for more, but i think it will be rarely used.
All my PvE builds are without military armor. Too heavy or too expensive IMO.

If you get the heavy duty armor engineer mod on your lightweight alloy armor then it will be a 0% increase in mass. At grade 5 it makes your lightweight alloy as strong as reinforced armor.

Anyway, this is just me sharing my philosophy on ship builds. I am sure that others have their own approaches, but Lightweight armor works for me
 
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Threat 1 USSs

Here's a short video I did of how to use a Threat 1 USS as a place for combat testing or practice.

I'm even using an Anaconda in the video, and it shows the use of turrets.

Mine are set to Target Only, and I trigger them via the secondary fire button. My big Multicannon is on the primary button, although I barely use it in this video because I was testing the turrets.

It should give you a good idea of how to get some pretty safe combat practice in :)

https://youtu.be/ImLd9UhPjdA

Thank you for the video! Most helpful. I'll look out for these and give them a go!
 
Some players prefer Fire at Will because it requires less involvement to manage the turrets as they will automatically attack anything that attacks your ship. This can be an advantage in that it can sometimes make the most efficient use of your turrets and can be useful when you're fighting multiple targets but it can also draw a lot of attention from enemy ships and you often won't want this. For this reason I prefer Target Only as the turrets will only attack the specific ship I want them to.

From what I can tell I don't think that SCBs need to actually draw power from the Sys capacitor to function and I have even accidentally triggered one during supercruise so my understanding is that as long as your SCB module has power from the power plant that should be all it needs to function. There may be some minimal Sys draw associated with an SCB but I haven't seen SCBs refuse to fire the way that chaff can sometimes refuse to operate when your Sys capacitor is low. I only use a small SCB in my Python (to minimize internal space/weight and power draw) but for a large ship like the Anaconda the limiting factor with SCB use will probably be heat spikes rather than power draw. It's worth noting that for some ships the heat spike that an SCB generates can overheat your ship very quickly and in my Python (which runs rather hot) I will avoid firing my weapons or boosting for a few seconds after my SCB is fired. In particular using boost on a ship with dirty drive tuning can generate a lot of heat and my Python also uses incendiary muticannon rounds which have a high thermal load as well. In ships with lots of internal slots you might carry more than one SCB and activate/deactivate the modules to save power draw as a way of carrying more SCB ammo, i.e., when the first SCB is out of ammo then deactivate it and turn on the second SCB module. Unlike chaff use where it can be very helpful having two chaff modules available at the same time (due to chaff cooldown times) and you can easily alternate fire between the two chaff modules there are not many cases where you will really need a dual SCBs setup continually powered as the heat spikes mean that you won't usually want to fire more than one SCB at any given time.

I always put Military alloys on all of my ships (except my Type 9 which is currently parked and collecting dust) because I find it provides good overall protection without the excessive cost of the specialized reflective/kinetic armors. Prior to 2.1 I used to run some ships with reinforced alloys to save weight but I've found this is less viable in 2.1 with all the Engineering mods on weapons so now everything I currently fly, including my long-range Asp and Diamondback, use Military alloys. I just accept that my ships will be a little slower in terms of FSD or boost due to military alloys and even with the weight penalty my Asp and Diamonback are still managing 37 ly jump range fully armored. I haven't made any armor mods yet as they are locked behind Selene Jean and I refuse to do any mining so I don't really have any experience with modding armor but in general I would advise military alloys on all ships if you expect to be interdicted or use your ship for combat. Even with a good thermal shield mod on my Python I have been rammed by larger ships and suddenly lost my shields and in those cases the military armor has allowed me to continue to fight rather than immediately needing to run away.


The SCBs and Armour I've still to check out. I need to figure out their benefits over the lost cargo space and reduced jump range, but thanks for the info! All very interesting and useful!
 
Just a note as the previous posts have covered a broad range of subjects. I have the Anaconda, a Corvette and a Python. All three are heavily modded but I have purposely left the Anaconda a light build to emphasize range, speed and cargo capacity (its' strengths) and except for mines, is unarmed. It does have lv 5 HD shields to endure hits as I evade.

The main reason is that for me, the Anaconda just does not really lend itself to combat as well as the other two ships. I fit the ship to the mission and go from there.

My suggestion would be to acquire a Python and work to reach lv5 mods on all systems. I had mine before Engineers with all a-class modules (now lv 5's). Currently, my Python can engage ships of its' size and smaller quite well and I have also engaged Anacondas with regular success. The Python is much more agile and is a blast in any RES and rolls in bounties quite quickly.

All of the bigger ships require active use of FA off/on. In a dogfight, you should be cycling on/off constantly and at times off for extended periods of times as it definitely throws off your opponents' aim.

And in the bigger ships, always be ready to bug out. You can be overwhelmed quite rapidly if set upon by a wing. Try to keep your engine capacitor charged for that initial boost when you need it and if the situation doesn't look right, leave ASAP. Thrusters are a favorite targets for NPC's as of late so give yourself room.
 
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Just a note as the previous posts have covered a broad range of subjects. I have the Anaconda, a Corvette and a Python. All three are heavily modded but I have purposely left the Anaconda a light build to emphasize range, speed and cargo capacity (its' strengths) and except for mines, is unarmed. It does have lv 5 HD shields to endure hits as I evade.

The main reason is that for me, the Anaconda just does not really lend itself to combat as well as the other two ships. I fit the ship to the mission and go from there.

My suggestion would be to acquire a Python and work to reach lv5 mods on all systems. I had mine before Engineers with all a-class modules (now lv 5's). Currently, my Python can engage ships of its' size and smaller quite well and I have also engaged Anacondas with regular success. The Python is much more agile and is a blast in any RES and rolls in bounties quite quickly.

All of the bigger ships require active use of FA off/on. In a dogfight, you should be cycling on/off constantly and at times off for extended periods of times as it definitely throws off your opponents' aim.

And in the bigger ships, always be ready to bug out. You can be overwhelmed quite rapidly if set upon by a wing. Try to keep your engine capacitor charged for that initial boost when you need it and if the situation doesn't look right, leave ASAP. Thrusters are a favorite targets for NPC's as of late so give yourself room.

More excellent advice! Thank you! Interesting that you prefer the Python over the Anaconda for combat purposes. The front view without a mile of decking out in front does help I guess... But I also thought that the Python was a slow ship after several nerfs by Frontier? Albeit, probably not a problem with G5 dirty drives fitted.

You raise an interesting point. No npc's attack specific modules? You suggest that they do and thrusters is a common target. I suspect that the power plant is also another key component that they go after. What level npc ships go after which ship components?
By this I mean something like this :
Up to Master... Just shoot at you.
Deadly... Targets your thrusters.
Elite... Targets your power plant.

That would be useful information.
 
Update after some combat last night! With the support and guardianship of a friend, I got some kills first in a navigation beacon and then a number of RES. This has Really helped to boost my confidence no end! (From 'nothing' to 'this is at least possible for me'. It's a Long Way from polished! I need to target sub systems (PP), us FA off, pip management, and no doubt a few other things like when to turn turrets on and off, but it's at least on the map!

A very big and sincere Thank You to those that have helped along this road so far! Especially to Jerry Clark for being there for me in case I got into trouble.
 
More excellent advice! Thank you! Interesting that you prefer the Python over the Anaconda for combat purposes. The front view without a mile of decking out in front does help I guess... But I also thought that the Python was a slow ship after several nerfs by Frontier? Albeit, probably not a problem with G5 dirty drives fitted.

You raise an interesting point. No npc's attack specific modules? You suggest that they do and thrusters is a common target. I suspect that the power plant is also another key component that they go after. What level npc ships go after which ship components?
By this I mean something like this :
Up to Master... Just shoot at you.
Deadly... Targets your thrusters.
Elite... Targets your power plant.

That would be useful information.

AFAIK, NPC rank does not give any priority to a specific module target. They will snipe your thrusters, powerplant from my experience. My thrusters have been nearly knocked out on recent encounters when in a CZ and all of a sudden I became every NPC's target (I have experienced this mass targeting a few times).

I have only owned the Python subsequent to the nerfs, but it became indispensable after the Engineers dropped as it could mine, explore, evade and fight all in one ship. The dirty drive mod and the use of F/A off/on make it a decent fighter, I have all multi-cannons (corrosive, thermal, incendiary) and one thermal vent laser. In a RES, you can get within 1k meters of your target, open fire with full battery and your opponent will not last but for a few seconds, dangerous and above take a little longer. At close range, your weaponry is much more effective.
 
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Patch 2.1.05 removed all sub-system targeting from NPCs.

Here's the link to the patch notes, see the NPCs section.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/276723-2-1-05-update-incoming

Of course if they are using missiles the splash damage can take out stuff.



Sure it did, but that doesn't change the fact that on recent encounters, NPC's took down my thrusters to zilch (1% after reboot) and most other systems were not even close to being that damaged. That doesn't appear to be splash damage, that appeared to be dam' good shootin' by someone.
 
I experienced this last night. They were definitely targeting my thrusters as they went down very quickly, twice, whilst the rest of the ship was largely unaffected. After I was "dead in the water", they finished me off.
 
I experienced this last night. They were definitely targeting my thrusters as they went down very quickly, twice, whilst the rest of the ship was largely unaffected. After I was "dead in the water", they finished me off.

It's my observation that FD isn't necessarily doing what it says it is doing, they are a bit tricky, which is fine, it is Elite:DDANGEROUS. They aren't transparent to many aspects of the game so it is up to the individual CMDR and the rest to adjust accordingly, that is as it should be as well.

As they say, there is "product variance".[arrrr]
 
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