Modes How to make open attractive to solo players: Mission Rebuy

[CowboyTorry]

Let's take this fictional scenario an average solo player can encounter when venturing into open play.

Imagine i only have about an hour every so often to play this game. Imagine I love to make my fortune by trading goods between station.
I arrive at this station and take the mission to find some goods for 1.000 K Credits.
After checking EDDB, I find a station 10 jumps away where i can purchase the goods for 500K Credits.

The next half hour I spend 10 jumps to the station, buying the goods and jumping back to the end station. Just as I arrive in the system, another player whether griefing, role playing or just for lulz intercepts me and kills me.

As I respawn, I take measure of my losses:
1. I have to foot a rebuy bill for my ship
2. I have lost for 500K credits worth of goods
3. If i have bad luck, the mission might expire (losing a 1.000 K deal)

Sure I could fly back to the selling station, buy the goods again only to run in the human player again, who can then kill me again, doubling my loses.
But the real loss to me as a player, are not the lost credits, its the lost time. I played this game for half an hour and because of some human player I have nothing to show for my spent time.

No wonder players prefer solo above open, because in solo i am certain that my time will yield some fun.

So how can we assure that solo players don't feel that they waisted their time in open? MISSION REBUY

Take the same scenario as above: I arrive at the endstation, get killed and respawn.
At the respawn screen i get not only the option to rebuy my ship. I also get the option to rebuy my mission (either passengers or goods) at 10 % of the purchase value.

In that case I not only respawn with my ship, but the cargo hold is filled up again at a cost of 50K rebuy. I can continue my mission to the end station, claim the reward (at a slightly decreased profit due to the rebuy).

Sure there is still the loss and rebuy of the ship which will set met back in credits, but at least i have the mission succesfully ended and not waisted my time.

Any thoughts?

 

[ethelred]

Why not play in PG or Solo?

 

[Jockey79]

Why not play in PG or Solo?

Because the OP is trying to think of ways to nudge folks into open - it is kinda in the title of the thread

@OP Not a bad idea, but even with the rebuy option - you've still lost time from the first run. And if you only had 30 minutes to play, so was trying to get a quick run done, you've lost your game time for the day.

Until Frontier learn to how refund time as well as assets back to the person who loses out, those in Solo / PGs will be quite happy to stay there.

 

[ethelred]

Yeah I know. It was part in jest.

I’ve posted elsewhere why Solo/PG CMDRs don’t want (or should) play in Open, and this idea doesn’t really address them.

If you have limited time and are risk averse then choose another mode.

If you you have limited time and are not risk averse then you can fairly easily learn how to avoid interdictions in the first instance, and to escape if you are interdicted. You may need to practise.

These things exist as the game is now without any changes needed.

Therefore when it is up the player and their choices, I don’t see a need to change anything*


*if we were discussing response times, security or a host of any other points then I would probably agree. But for this change there is simply no need.

 

[Arry]

Let's take this fictional scenario an average solo player can encounter when venturing into open play.

Imagine i only have about an hour every so often to play this game. Imagine I love to make my fortune by trading goods between station.
I arrive at this station and take the mission to find some goods for 1.000 K Credits.
After checking EDDB, I find a station 10 jumps away where i can purchase the goods for 500K Credits.

The next half hour I spend 10 jumps to the station, buying the goods and jumping back to the end station. Just as I arrive in the system, another player whether griefing, role playing or just for lulz intercepts me and kills me.

As I respawn, I take measure of my losses:
1. I have to foot a rebuy bill for my ship
2. I have lost for 500K credits worth of goods
3. If i have bad luck, the mission might expire (losing a 1.000 K deal)

Sure I could fly back to the selling station, buy the goods again only to run in the human player again, who can then kill me again, doubling my loses.
But the real loss to me as a player, are not the lost credits, its the lost time. I played this game for half an hour and because of some human player I have nothing to show for my spent time.

No wonder players prefer solo above open, because in solo i am certain that my time will yield some fun.

So how can we assure that solo players don't feel that they waisted their time in open? MISSION REBUY

Take the same scenario as above: I arrive at the endstation, get killed and respawn.
At the respawn screen i get not only the option to rebuy my ship. I also get the option to rebuy my mission (either passengers or goods) at 10 % of the purchase value.

In that case I not only respawn with my ship, but the cargo hold is filled up again at a cost of 50K rebuy. I can continue my mission to the end station, claim the reward (at a slightly decreased profit due to the rebuy).

Sure there is still the loss and rebuy of the ship which will set met back in credits, but at least i have the mission succesfully ended and not waisted my time.

Any thoughts?

I see what you are saying here and agree, that it would lessen the costs and make 'Open play' less of a burden. But I would say that the Pew pew crowd and those that shouted so loud to get the current change made; would not be happy about it.

In answer to those that say 'it is easy to overcome, beat or win; against the pew pew' idiots: I disagree, not without some serious work, at the engineers stations. A well built, standard ship; only stands a chance, in an expert pilots hands; the rest of us mortals. Might as well say goodbye to power play weapons from now on.

 

[wrmiller]

Get rid of the PP weps and modules and I might play in open more, because I might actually have a chance one-on-one against a similar ship as mine.

Until then...nope.

 

[khaos526]

My response is simple how to get Solo people to play in Open...Not have people in Open. That sums it up for me. There's a reason I go to pubs and other things to socialize with friends or meet new ones. Computer games are meant for me time, and to get away from real people time...

 

[Bigmaec]

Get rid of the PP weps and modules and I might play in open more, because I might actually have a chance one-on-one against a similar ship as mine.

Until then...nope.

Top Tier (pun intended) engineering is much more important then powerplay modules, though. They are nice to have, but not necessary and far from an instant-win-thingy.


Regarding OP I see it a bit like ethelred, if you are risk averse or simply have no fun in PvP actions, chose another mode.
There's no shame in playing solo/PG, ignore comments telling you other things.

I'm firmly believing that reducing the personal loss from PvP but not (nearly) completely zeroing it won't make much difference in mode choice.
Imho a more rigid C&P would better serve that, like the proposal from Old Duck (making high sec systems safe).

 

[Jockey79]

Top Tier (pun intended) engineering is much more important then powerplay modules, though.

I thought top tier engineered Power Play modules was the end goal for anyone.

Why Frontier even let people engineer the PP gear is beyond me, but that's what folks seem to be aiming towards.
And it's creating a massive gap between new players and seasoned players.

 

[racer1]

I think players who play solo, PG and open in general do so because that is their play style.

Minor changes are unlikely to make people play in a different mode IMO.

 

[Brrokk]

Can I ask OP a question? Why exactly do you want to make Open attractive to Solo players? (It sounds quite hard to do).

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

Subtracting any incentive to fly carefully and/or skillfully will help neither the player nor the game. If the idea of PvP adversity is too much, fly in PG/open.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Let's take this fictional scenario an average solo player can encounter when venturing into open play.

Imagine i only have about an hour every so often to play this game. Imagine I love to make my fortune by trading goods between station.
I arrive at this station and take the mission to find some goods for 1.000 K Credits.
After checking EDDB, I find a station 10 jumps away where i can purchase the goods for 500K Credits.

The next half hour I spend 10 jumps to the station, buying the goods and jumping back to the end station. Just as I arrive in the system, another player whether griefing, role playing or just for lulz intercepts me and kills me.

As I respawn, I take measure of my losses:
1. I have to foot a rebuy bill for my ship
2. I have lost for 500K credits worth of goods
3. If i have bad luck, the mission might expire (losing a 1.000 K deal)

You could suffer the same fate in Solo at the hands of an NPC, couldn't you?

No wonder players prefer solo above open

In case you missed it, a "significant majority" play in Open

Take the same scenario as above: I arrive at the endstation, get killed and respawn.
At the respawn screen i get not only the option to rebuy my ship. I also get the option to rebuy my mission (either passengers or goods) at 10 % of the purchase value.

In that case I not only respawn with my ship, but the cargo hold is filled up again at a cost of 50K rebuy. I can continue my mission to the end station, claim the reward (at a slightly decreased profit due to the rebuy).

Sure there is still the loss and rebuy of the ship which will set met back in credits, but at least i have the mission succesfully ended and not waisted my time.

Any thoughts?

Tbh, I would rather not have risk-averse types in Open. Have you been ever tried pirating someone who chose the wrong mode for their playstyle? Frankly, it's embarrassing. I would rather they made the right choice in the Main Menu.

 

[Bigmaec]

I thought top tier engineered Power Play modules was the end goal for anyone.

Why Frontier even let people engineer the PP gear is beyond me, but that's what folks seem to be aiming towards.
And it's creating a massive gap between new players and seasoned players.

Depends. If you want a shield tank FdL you need those prismatics. But for a bi-weave hull tank FAS or Chief you don't need them.
If you're good with fixed frags Pacifiers are nice for you, but you can go gimbaled frags too.
If you want to annoy big-three, an Advanced Plasma Accelerator Vulture with double target lock breaker is awesome.
But it is never a "I win button".

I'd even say most of the modules are more worth in PvE than in PvP. I love Imperial Hammers against NPCs, for example,
but hitting CMDRs with them is more difficult to hit with all three shots, so if you aren't an aimbot, you're better off with normal rails.

Engineers are making a way bigger gap imho. But we derail the thread

 

[Jockey79]

....

Engineers are making a way bigger gap imho. But we derail the thread

Well, perhaps to draw people into open mode (nudging us back on topic ) then limit engineering to it's own open instances.
That way open becomes a more level playing field as traders won't end up instanced with over engineered gank ships.
(oh and no PP gear either)

 

[Simon Templar]

I understand where OP is coming from, but me that sort of rebuy thing would take away some of the realism, so I wouldn't want that.

I limit myself to Solo, as I can compete, combat-wise, with NPC ships, but have no interest in just becoming cannon fodder for human players in open. Combat isn't my main focus, by any means (I only fight when I have to defend myself against NPCs), and I sense that if I ventured into Open then combat would have to be constantly on my mind. I don't much like that engineering exists in the game, but now that it does it gives those who want to focus on combat a clear and consistent advantage. Life's too short to put myself in the position of having to deal with that. All the bits of the game that I enjoy are available in Solo. So why voluntarily sign up to join a turkey shoot when I'd be the turkey?

Solo players love Solo, Open players love Open, it works for all. I think we have moved past the point where everyone would be happy together in Open. I'd love a bit of human interaction, but I don't think that I'd be chatting with fellow trader-explorers. There are just too many stories of griefing etc for it to be worth the hassle!

 

[Faded Glory]

Tbh, I would rather not have risk-averse types in Open. Have you been ever tried pirating someone who chose the wrong mode for their playstyle? Frankly, it's embarrassing. I would rather they made the right choice in the Main Menu.

I agree with your sentiment that players should simply choose the mode that they prefer.

I do want to add though that putting it down to 'risk aversion', which we seem to see quite a bit on the forums is just plain wrong. I, and I'm sure others, take part in activities with genuine risk, activities that can and do put you in the emergency room or worse if things go wrong. I choose to play in solo because I have no interest in playing this game with others. I don't even want to chat with others. By all means accuse me of being anti-social (my friends might be surprised), but I can assure you it's not because I think there's any risk at all in the game.

 

[wrmiller]

I agree with your sentiment that players should simply choose the mode that they prefer.

I do want to add though that putting it down to 'risk aversion', which we seem to see quite a bit on the forums is just plain wrong. I, and I'm sure others, take part in activities with genuine risk, activities that can and do put you in the emergency room or worse if things go wrong. I choose to play in solo because I have no interest in playing this game with others. I don't even want to chat with others. By all means accuse me of being anti-social (my friends might be surprised), but I can assure you it's not because I think there's any risk at all in the game.

This comment as well as others is just their way of badmouthing people without triggering the PC police (mods) here on the forums. It likely isn't going away anytime soon unfortunately.

 

[Simon Templar]

I agree with your sentiment that players should simply choose the mode that they prefer.

I do want to add though that putting it down to 'risk aversion', which we seem to see quite a bit on the forums is just plain wrong. I, and I'm sure others, take part in activities with genuine risk, activities that can and do put you in the emergency room or worse if things go wrong. I choose to play in solo because I have no interest in playing this game with others. I don't even want to chat with others. By all means accuse me of being anti-social (my friends might be surprised), but I can assure you it's not because I think there's any risk at all in the game.

Hear hear! Credit to you, but personally I find it a futile exercise trying to persuade some advocates of Open that they aren't the Alphas and we Soloists the sheep. Fight the good fight if you like, but smile and wave might be a less frustrating path over the long haul. Maybe the alternate take on it is that those who feel they have something to prove are the ones most likely to grief (and they can often be the ones who spoil life for the rest of us, and not just in gaming). So for me, it's nice that the game has two sides, and the two tribes can each play in the sandpit they prefer.

 

[ethelred]

Just to be clear when I say risk averse I mean the risk of having your time and/or credits disappear due to unwanted PvP. There is no judgement - as I said please play in the mode that suits you best.

The reasons I said people choose solo or PG over Open were:-

1. Unwanted PvP (and subsequent loss of credits/time/data)
2. Network/instancing
3. Just prefer to.

The OP raised a mechanism that imho would not counter any of these reasons, and further ignores things you can do already in game to avoid destruction (not 100% guaranteed) and/or unwanted PvP.