Modes How to maybe solve one of the problems of pvp in open...

I think this is a FANTASTIC idea, TS. Unarmed traders still get more speed and jump range, and fully armed traders could do PVP. Combat only ships could put AFMUs to repair the damage after the battle etc.

There is still the problem of wings teaming up though.
 
Now if what you're indirectly proposing is containment measures for the power creep and military modules being overpowered, we should get along well with these intentions, although it's a much distant objective and really hard to pull off. People who have gone through painstakingly time consuming routes in order to get "Dat HRP" and such, will hardly take it easy on FDev when their ships are suddenly nerfed… I can agree with your intentions but can't with your initial premise of - fighting back a fully combat engineered FAS with a trader ship -

Dude, you still haven't read the thread. I have repeatedly said that traders will still not be able to take on fighters, as it should be.

Thanks for taking the time by the way. And writing such a considered post.

Take away 2 of the FAS's HRPs and you have taken a massive chunk of pure armor and a big chunk of resistance. They are no longer near impervious to pve weapons, a very important part of this.

A fat trade elephant can never stand and fight, being one resigns you to the brave sir robin playstyle. They are not factor in this equation, I would even probably give them a buff to their running away abilities if they asked me for one. Running around doing data missions and assassinations in a pve spec combat ship, you are going to get WRECKED when interdicted by someone specced for pvp, not carrying a disco scanner, or a fuel scoop, or a KWS or any cargo racks. Thats just silly. You're in an optimal pve ship for combat, but still the pvp ship has 50% better defense than you. That's all I'm saying. When military slots were added, if they had actually been the opposite, normal slots restricted, this problem wuld never have arisen. Too late now.

Read this, and tell me f you get it now?
 
I think this is a FANTASTIC idea, TS. Unarmed traders still get more speed and jump range, and fully armed traders could do PVP. Combat only ships could put AFMUs to repair the damage after the battle etc.

There is still the problem of wings teaming up though.

Hmm perhaps I just need to open my mind then
Yes, it would be nice to use non standard ships for PvP
Some PvP gods already do that
 
Dude, you still haven't read the thread. I have repeatedly said that traders will still not be able to take on fighters, as it should be.



Read this, and tell me f you get it now?

Seeing as I'm relatively new to the game, do you guys recall what need did FDev have for introducing military slots by then? Perhaps it wasn't a much needed change at all, in which case it would be a bit justifiable to just remove them… I don't know
 
Seeing as I'm relatively new to the game, do you guys recall what need did FDev have for introducing military slots by then? Perhaps it wasn't a much needed change at all, in which case it would be a bit justifiable to just remove them… I don't know

It's a thought, but it's not fair to have to use every slot for defence or your only gameplay is 'run away'. They must just like seeing wake trails :)
 
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Seeing as I'm relatively new to the game, do you guys recall what need did FDev have for introducing military slots by then? Perhaps it wasn't a much needed change at all, in which case it would be a bit justifiable to just remove them… I don't know

They introduced military slots together with MRP (module reinforcement pack) and reducing weight of all HRPs by 50%. It was supposed to increase survivability of ships when shields fail, as this was tested together with stacking limits on shield boosters. But the shield booster changes didn't happen so we just ended up with all combat ships getting incredible hull strength with barely any downsides, while still having incredibly strong shields with barely any downsides.

And BTW the next round of proposed shield booster changes has resulted in much increased shield regeneration rates and, again, no change to shield strength.

So after 2 "balance" passes the gap between combat and non-combat ships is much bigger than it was and ships that were already indestructible got even stronger.
 
I made a suggestion that limits on ships should be imposed by authorities, so it's a soft limit not a hard one. Hard to imagine that NY city would let someone drive around in a Mad Max bus, but if you want to do that in Beirut you could probably get away with it.
 
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You've hit upon one of the things which have gradually made "organic" PvP favour griefers; the proliferation of new combat modules in optional slots. Every time a new one is added, the gap between a pure combat ship and a multirole ship (i.e. a ship you can play the other 90% of the game with) widens further.
 
I like it how it is. Someone wants to rambo their ship out, go for it. Neutering everyone so that it becomes a Barbie doll convention doesn't solve the issue which is that some people want nothing but pew pew and some people want nothing but environment hugging.

That's just how the game is. Trying to survive in that world is more interesting than the placid world suggested in the OP.
 
But to make it so that gankers can't gank, you'd have to gimp them to the point where you've pretty much destroyed any form of piracy.
and if it's only a slight hit with the nerf bat, then it really won't change the status quo at all.

Personally, I think a robust C&P system is really the only way to go.

I agree. Limiting our outfitting options is only gonna make the game worse. I also say that killing other CMDRs is part of the game.
 
Real pirates succeed because they have trained in combat arts, usually they would be at a DISadvantage in comparison to their victims in terms of equipment, they are deadly because of their skill and cunning with cannon and blade. What is the point even of a pirate who can't collect his spoils? I've seen this a few times on YouTube, they pirate a dude, win the battle, make them dump the cargo, then fly off with a sense of self importance. What is that about? Lol. To be honest, isn't a pirate that's better equipped than you simply a thief? ;)

What I propose specifically wouldn't affect ganking, 2 mission runner ships against a mission runner ship is still going to be a very difficult fight to win, and even with limited modules, there will still be a pvp meta, I believe it will shift toward special effects and their counters.

You are assuming people aren't allowed to do that in the game. One premise in the game is the possibility of doing anything.
 
There will still be combat dedicated ships and trade dedicated ships, all I'm proposing is switching around the 3 mil slots, 6 mil/tech slots to 4 tech slots 5 mil/tech slots. for example. It won't remove\variation, there will still be strong and weak ships and meta builds. I just don't see these concerns that it's a nerf to pvpers. They will have more content and if they can fight, they'll get more good fights. It's win all round.

How would they get more content by not having access to certain builds they like to use?
 
Traders, miners, and explorers need to have the ability to install really good defences, while generally having little or no offensive capabilities.

Combat ships should either have really really good defensive capabilities, really good offensive capabilities, or a balance of the two.

Currently, traders (and whatnot) can't actually do a great do if they gear up their ship to have the best defences.
And combat ships can be really good at both, compounding the problem further.

If, and a big if, I had to go back to the drawing board,

All defensive and offensive modules would occupy the same external slots.
But you'd have plenty more than now, some bigger than others.

Then, if you want that near-invincible shield tank, you can. But you'll be sacrificing all of your offensive capabilities.
If you want to take out that near-invincible shield tank ship, you can, but you'll be more or less a glass cannon.
If you want a good balance, you can too, but don't expect to be invincible or ganker.

But it won't happen. Lol

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

They can, it's just that people don't do it for the sake of hauling more cargo.
 
I don't have any issues with the ability to have highly specialized loadouts that are better at that specialty than more general purpose loadouts and I don't think forcing vessels to be more general purpose, or limiting the degree to which they can specialize would necessarily make for a better game.
 
IMHO the FDL should have the advantage for sure, but it shouldn't be so overwhelming that anything short of "high wake immediately" is a death sentence. A reasonably equipped T9 should be able to make that FDL have to work for their victory, and if they're sloppy, maybe even be forced to retreat if they can hold out long enough for the police to arrive.

That's fun. It's interesting. It's dynamic.

As it stands today, the T9 can almost certainly escape if they're smart but it's not particularly interesting for either side when an encounter is reduced to "can you immediately high-wake before they disable you?"

Again, that depends on your build. A paper thin T9 will blow up in pieces very quickly with or without the nerfs the OP talks about.
 
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