'You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to thelivingdeadguy again.'
You're exactly right. And I'll put you on the list for my 'Good Guy Squad.' Don't hold your breath though, ok?
How to stop the cheats?
- Thread starter MegatronsFinger
- Start date
'You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to thelivingdeadguy again.'
You're exactly right. And I'll put you on the list for my 'Good Guy Squad.' Don't hold your breath though, ok?
I ain't here to make friends with likes of you two. You both clearly got your minds made up about Elite and me and that's fine. What I am here for is to encourage open play and the skills to not just survive but also thrive in it.
Not that you'll care to hear about it, but Elite: Dangerous is one of the greatest creative experiences I've ever had the joy of encountering and it's been because of the ruthless (and insanely fun!) nature of Open play.
Not PG.
Not Solo.
Open.
Y'all won't get that, y'all don't want to get that, and it's ok. But if one person hears what I'm saying, gets inspired, and becomes one of the truly Elite then gosh will have all the time and energy been worth it.
Though I understand what you say I can't fully agree.
Yeah, if you choose open you take the risks of it, alright with that.
If someones play is to fight other cmdr's good, have fun.
I got attacked a lot and most of the time I managed to get away.
I don't have a PvP built ship, and I don't want one. I don't enjoy PvP very much, it's not that I say it's bad, just not for me. Yeah, I'm not very good at combat and that's because it's not my main focus in ED.
And that's where I disagree with you. You're saying that open is just the killing fields, a ruthless environment with death behind the next jump.
And if someone doesn't want to fight and go all PvP he's not the "truly Elite" (whatever that means)
That's just not true. 95% of contacts with other players are peaceful encounters, mostly a quick o7 and minding your own business.
Sometimes a little chat or a Wing up for some fun times and very rarely a addition to the friendslist.
That's what open is for me. And I like it that way.
What I don't like are wings of players killing everything they see in their PvP builds without any other communication than opening fire.
But that's also part of Open play, I'm OK with that. I don't demand anyone to change their game because I don't like it.
Just don't assume the way you think it's meant to be played is the holy grail and everyone who doesn't agree is wrong.
A mutual understanding would do good. You say people got their mind made up. How about you?
Well now, the same could be said of you. You still refuse to take my point: if you use abusive and belittling language, no one's going to listen to your words.
I could be wrong, it’s happened before - at least twice, but I don’t think he explicitly says you need to be a top combat pilot.
I got the impression that he means surviving the challenges the game throws at you, your way, combat, evasion, stealth etc. Not just switching modes and watching a pointless credit counter march ever higher while ranting about there being nothing to do in a seriously weak T9 etc.
My python boosts to 460+ with cargo. I’ve lightened the heck out of that thing and it’s my go to ship. I can low wake from the classic gank wing of fdls. Stay behind a single cutter or high wake. Sure, cutter + fdls/clippers might cause me problems - I’d high wake and return in an even faster orca.
I’ve designed those ships because I’ve been attacked/destroyed enough to know what works and what doesn’t. Every delivery I make in a CG is a win for me.
I might use a trade conda or even T9 to do a trade influence bomb in my bgs systems but I know that getting in that T9 is taking an (admittedly tiny, space is big) risk. And that’s awesome. I wouldn’t dream of flying that near a CG in open. It’s amazing that people do and staggering that when they get destroyed they say it’s someone else who has done something wrong.
I get that people play the game for different reasons, have time constraints etc. That’s fine. Run your trade runs, RP or whatever in solo or private. I’m totally cool with that.
What I don’t get is:
1. People doing the above and constantly trying to justify it in the forums - often while saying they don’t have to.
2. People angry that a slow, fat trade ship is vulnerable in hot spots in open (not you OP, you seem cool) and that just maybe they might have to change something if they want to stay there.
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I've been playing for over two years and have close to 3,000 hours in the game, I'm pretty sure I have a handle on the modes thanks.
As for your first line it's patronising nonsense, not least in view of the highlighted elements of the line above which is actually exactly what I said. If you're applying a definition of interaction which exclusively relates to cooperative rather than adversarial play, I'd suggest that you do a little more research yourself.
As for attacking another player being griefing unless it's within the context of powerplay, again this is hilariously misinformed. You don't have to do much searching on the forum to find clear and specific confirmation from FDev themselves that simply attacking another player in open isn't in any way griefing. Unfortunately you're an exemplar of the problem I was describing, where players seek to make their own headcanon rule and then react as if they have somehow become the rules of the game.
Yes, and to that point I agree, if you want to play open learn how it works for you. Fight, evade, run whatever.
On the other side, if someone simply doesn't want to do that: switch modes. That's why they are there.
It's the prejudices and assumptions (on both sides) that I don't like.
People thinking they have to tell others how to play it right.
Share your opinion, accept different views.
There's things we like and things we don't like. People are different.
What is your biggest amusement might be the others harassment.
Learn to accept some things as given and how to deal with it.
We're all playing the Game we like. We don't have to agree on everything.
But the arguments about "right" and "wrong" are always futile.
Are you kidding? Abusive and belittling? This is called talking like an adult about a point they are passionate about.
And to Godnamedthor - where did I say Open was a killing field? I said it was ruthless... I don't think that's the same, right?
Hmm. Sounds like you guys aren't really listening, but whatever. Regarding 'truly Elite...' I'll give you a lore friendly answer and it's got nothing to do with ganking, or killing fields, or whatever horrors you imagine Open to contain.
Elite Combateers always make a difference.
Elite Traders have butts made of iron.
Elite Explorers... well I'm not sure about that one, but gosh do I know them when I see them. Probably the most hardcore people in the game!
Nope.
Firstly nobody is 'suggesting' anything, something is being explained and if you care to contact FDev and ask them 'is the act of simply attacking another player in open considered griefing' they will tell you quite clearly that it isn't. I'd cite you some references from the forums for that but I have to leave now for work.
Secondly though, no open is not only for players who want to pew pew. However it is only for players who are capable of accepting that some others want to pew pew and critically, understanding that there is no 'open pve mode' or other mechanism whereby you can play in open but opt out of the possibility of pvp interactions with other players , whether invited or not. That is the game. It was the game before you bought it.
I'm not telling you that you have to enjoy pvp, or that you have to voluntarily engage with it, just that in one of the three available game modes you have to accept that it is a possibility regardless of what you may or may not want. That is the design of the game, despite the fact that some players seem to feel they are allowed to create their own rules. There's even a mode where players are in fact allowed to create their own rules, so why people find it so difficult to just use it is absolutely beyond me. The sense of entitlement is quite breathtaking.
ahhhh man, seems you got hit with a face full of karma from my last visit
all joking aside, you should go tell fdev their username, because purpouse disconnects are cheating
all joking aside, you should go tell fdev their username, because purpouse disconnects are cheating
Nah... that's a wrong statement.
First: risk losing, what? micky mouse-money, c'mon...
Defeat? In a game, who cares? I don't... games have to be played for fun, that's all.
Who gets upset whilst playing shouldn't play at all and I smile on the face of players who take games so seriously (or gets salty).
Then, ok I'm in Mobius PvE and play there roughly 50% of my time (because I've friends there and I needed to join in order to play with them and interact with the community... so very personal choice) whilst I spend the remainder in open where I've been killed many times for no reason (as many others). Ok, that's fine but who are you to jugde who's good and who's not? Some players (like me) have families etc and may be they are as good as you but they simply don't want to waste their precious time on rebuys or to lose weeks of exploration data because some trigger-happy player opened fire on their shieldless DBX...
Let's look at a situation where you fly a D-rated T6 with 15t of something... risks:
#1 PvE/Solo/Open -> a pirate NPC may interdict me, ask for 5t of my cargo and spare my ship -> ok I can run the risk
#2a Open -> a player may interdict me, ask for 5t (or all) of my cargo and spare my ship -> ok I can run the risk... and also make some pirates friend
#2b Open -> a player may interdict me and kill me for no reason -> there's no way to avoid this risk (up to you to run it)
The problem is how to bear the risk in 2b... that's not depending on how "much good you are" because in a T6 you have no chance to fight (ok try to run but... err, it's a D-rated T6 c'mon) and you can't drop 5t of cargo (or all the cargo) and fly away.
So I dare that many of the "I play open, I am good, I am strong..." and bla-bla players did never play in PG or solo to mind their own business (and to avoid to be killed/defeated in a 2b situation).
^^yes he said it right, you didn't.
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Well, that was interesting! There have been some...... umm jaded comments (those saying that what I done was griefing) and others hit the nail on the head (those saying that it’s simply the way it is).
Wanted or not, pvp will happen. As soon as you click on that ‘open’ tag you, apparently unknowingly, accept the fact that there are other people in the galaxy that can and will shoot anything that moves. That doesn’t make them the devil incarnate, it’s just the role that they’ve chosen.
I think it’s those, possibly with a sense of entitlement, that think they shouldn’t be attacked for whatever reason tend to cheat and to be fair, it is cheating.
There are always exceptions to the rule though. Some do the attacking and when things don’t go their way, they log. These are the worst kind of cheats ( I’ll stay and fight as long as I’m winning).
I should point out to everyone. I shoot other cmdrs. I like it, it’s fun and offers a challenge. I typically use a dbx and will take on anyone that comes across my path, with few exceptions. Sometimes I’m victorious, sometimes I’m not. What people take from an encounter is up to them. Personally, it teaches me to fly my ships better, especially in the engagements that don’t go my way.
As for the people saying “I’m not interested in pvp” well.... that’s fine. You’re missing out on a great aspect of the game but it’s your choice to do so. With this in mind, you should always gear a ship towards getting away for anyone that would wish harm upon you. Would you go out in the dead of winter (-20/-30) and wear shorts, t-shirt Andy flip flops? No! Why? Coz it’s stupid and you’ll die. You wear suitable clothing to protect against the elements. Same principle applies here.
Protect yourselves against the elements, if you don’t, you die.
One more thing. Solo and pg players can’t really complain about what goes on in open. It’s like sitting inside your house and complaining that there are people outside, enjoying the rain.
If you want to exclusively use solo and pg, that’s your choice, but don’t comment on things that basically don’t affect you. Sorry not sorry.
Wanted or not, pvp will happen. As soon as you click on that ‘open’ tag you, apparently unknowingly, accept the fact that there are other people in the galaxy that can and will shoot anything that moves. That doesn’t make them the devil incarnate, it’s just the role that they’ve chosen.
I think it’s those, possibly with a sense of entitlement, that think they shouldn’t be attacked for whatever reason tend to cheat and to be fair, it is cheating.
There are always exceptions to the rule though. Some do the attacking and when things don’t go their way, they log. These are the worst kind of cheats ( I’ll stay and fight as long as I’m winning).
I should point out to everyone. I shoot other cmdrs. I like it, it’s fun and offers a challenge. I typically use a dbx and will take on anyone that comes across my path, with few exceptions. Sometimes I’m victorious, sometimes I’m not. What people take from an encounter is up to them. Personally, it teaches me to fly my ships better, especially in the engagements that don’t go my way.
As for the people saying “I’m not interested in pvp” well.... that’s fine. You’re missing out on a great aspect of the game but it’s your choice to do so. With this in mind, you should always gear a ship towards getting away for anyone that would wish harm upon you. Would you go out in the dead of winter (-20/-30) and wear shorts, t-shirt Andy flip flops? No! Why? Coz it’s stupid and you’ll die. You wear suitable clothing to protect against the elements. Same principle applies here.
Protect yourselves against the elements, if you don’t, you die.
One more thing. Solo and pg players can’t really complain about what goes on in open. It’s like sitting inside your house and complaining that there are people outside, enjoying the rain.
If you want to exclusively use solo and pg, that’s your choice, but don’t comment on things that basically don’t affect you. Sorry not sorry.
Respectfully your position is griefing others.
Suggesting pvp will happen wanted or not....is the wrong attitude
Everyone can complain about how another player is intentionally griefing others. Please refer to Xbox Live and not your own opinions as griefing is a form of harassment or bullying
per Xbox Live: What is abuse?
Abuse relates to any violations of our terms of service or code of conduct that includes behavior like harassment, bullying, posting inappropriate content, etc.
How do I report abuse?
Where you report abuse depends on where the abuse is occurring and the type of abuse you are reporting.
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verminstar
Banned
What ridiculous trash.
Many of you avoid open because you want a power fantasy: an open galaxy without any meaningful challenge, or dare I say, true player interaction. You don't want to risk losing, much less actually dealing with defeat. Fact of the matter is you aren't very good at the game so instead of rectifying that you take to the forums and shame folks for disagreeing with your small little worldview.
Open is hardcore mode.
Private is play with your friends mode.
Solo is play by yourself mode.
There's plenty to go around for all of us. Enough with shaming Open players!
Now thats what I would deem to be utter tripe right there which starts in the first line...'Many of you avoid open because (insert ego boosting reason)
Can ye back that up with anything? No...just a subjective and biased personal point of view, nothing more.
Have ye ever thought of an alternative reason? Course not, ye dont strike me as someone who is open to admitting they might actually be wrong. One can ignore engineers entirely and still keep the npc wildlife mildly challenging, while jumping a short range ship halway across the galaxy...could you do that? Ye have the patience fer that? To spend weeks and months playing in solitude. If not then yer not very hardcore at all are ye?
Open isnt hardcore mode at all...its free fer all mode...thats just about the only special thing it has going fer it despite what logic runs through the space between yer ears...so hows about we make a deal? Some of us will stop shaming open players when open players stop attempting to shame solo players...its counterproductive to start casting aspersions...some call it projection which is a very common trolling tactic which destroys any credability ye think ye might have. Yer not the only one who knows how to play that game ^
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I remember playing cod 4 and there was a player 30lvls below me. Yes i killed him loads.
Gta kill loads
Bf4 bf1 kill loads
In elite people make up there own little rules how the game should be played.
Would you still play if it was just open play?
Would you still play if it was perm death?
Saying someome that kills someone is this and that but tbh the biggest problem is combat logging.
Not traders or explores or low lvl ships.
Whats the problem is these hi lvl cmdrs with max mods that combat log everytime and fdev or MS wont do nothing about it.
So people gos on a rampage and kills everything they see as fast as possible,
1 to stop combat logging
2 to kill them under 15 seconds.
Gta kill loads
Bf4 bf1 kill loads
In elite people make up there own little rules how the game should be played.
Would you still play if it was just open play?
Would you still play if it was perm death?
Saying someome that kills someone is this and that but tbh the biggest problem is combat logging.
Not traders or explores or low lvl ships.
Whats the problem is these hi lvl cmdrs with max mods that combat log everytime and fdev or MS wont do nothing about it.
So people gos on a rampage and kills everything they see as fast as possible,
1 to stop combat logging
2 to kill them under 15 seconds.
https://www.elitedangerous.com
I hate to be "that guy" but within the link provided is the description of what elite is about. "blaze your trail", as in do what you please.
I don't particularly have an opinion on unwanted PvP as I've probably only been killed a few times in the past few years of playing. Real piracy isn't the same, after all NPCs do it (badly ). However, open is just that. Open to play as you please and do what you want to do. It's all content whether you like it or not.
When I log into open I automatically know I may be killed for no reason and I accept that, why? Because if another player wants to kill me then I'm adding to the content (rebuys surely by now aren't an issue, especially with the amount of get rich schemes we have now).
Combat logging should be punished, there's no debate really. If a system could be enforced where if so many times during combat someone logs several times then shadow ban them. It can't always be a coincidence that someone logs during combat because real life got in the way or connection dropped. This is why if it is flagged an x amount of times (during combat) its easier to detect.
I also don't think it's anybody business if people play in O/P/S for whatever reasons, after all its just a game.
Just my opinions.
I hate to be "that guy" but within the link provided is the description of what elite is about. "blaze your trail", as in do what you please.
I don't particularly have an opinion on unwanted PvP as I've probably only been killed a few times in the past few years of playing. Real piracy isn't the same, after all NPCs do it (badly
). However, open is just that. Open to play as you please and do what you want to do. It's all content whether you like it or not. When I log into open I automatically know I may be killed for no reason and I accept that, why? Because if another player wants to kill me then I'm adding to the content (rebuys surely by now aren't an issue, especially with the amount of get rich schemes we have now).
Combat logging should be punished, there's no debate really. If a system could be enforced where if so many times during combat someone logs several times then shadow ban them. It can't always be a coincidence that someone logs during combat because real life got in the way or connection dropped. This is why if it is flagged an x amount of times (during combat) its easier to detect.
I also don't think it's anybody business if people play in O/P/S for whatever reasons, after all its just a game.
Just my opinions.
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CoD / BF don't fit well... as MP interaction is an arena and players are there to kill each other.
I believe The Division is the closest game which may be compared to ED. Who played The Division knows about the "Dark Zone" and the fact that 4-players teams, made by hard core gamers with maxed out equipment (there's a lot of RNG), keep ganking solo players and teams of casuals who didn't have a chance because of their gear / weapons (skills don't count). At the end of the day, millions of players have left the game because there was a flawed concept behind the "Dark Zone" and the developers made the big mistake to lock certain high-level blueprints behind that... so who had plenty of time to grind for the best loot was the winner.
It was clear that the developers created an environment thinking that the players would have played the game as the devs intended to. WRONG!
The Division is out from 2+ years and its player base is mostly gone, but given it's cheap at the GS stores and the recent releases did offer some balance and a more challenging environment a lot of new players came and many are also returning (albeit not many as before).
I am not saying that it's the same for ED, but it's a fact that if a game/environment allows a [good/bad? fair/unfair?] behaviour, someone will behave in that way.
All of this has to be aligned with the business which runs ED: +players +money +storesales.
Bottom line: those "hi lvl cmdrs with max mods" who combat logs are may be a minority... the ones who complain about that are even less -> why a dev should care so much about that? Ok all of us knows it's a game issue (there's also a reddit section where cloggers are shamed btw, for the benefit of all the PvPers who may know if their opponent is a clogger), but I believe the clog issue lies at the line number 44343 of the current dev task schedule.
And so people gos on a rampage and kills everything they see as fast as possible offers no excuse (if any). In other words, once you pull the trigger upon a CMDR who's minding his business for your very personal fun and no other reasons, you must take also the risk of being blamed and/or called griefer/murdere/ganker whatever you like.
It's their word against yours, and may be both of you are right.
Yes, indeed.
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Non consensual PVP is just that, I do not agree that by playing in open I should have to take on the chin some numpty killing me.
Traders fly trade ships not combat ships and are never going to beat a combat ship, so no matter how many times GG is fired at them the odds are massively stacked in the aggressors favor.
The trader has all the consequences the aggressor has none, and that is the problem.
Forced into a conflict and loosing everything is not fun.
Put the shoe on the other foot...
If you are interdicted and you do not deploy your hardpoints in defence, so you do not want to engage, and you are then destroyed the aggressor gets your rebuy,ship and cargo as a bounty.
You just respawn at the last docked station FOC.
If you fight back then you are fair game and face the consequences.
How many open killers would put up with a fair system like that I wonder.
Traders fly trade ships not combat ships and are never going to beat a combat ship, so no matter how many times GG is fired at them the odds are massively stacked in the aggressors favor.
The trader has all the consequences the aggressor has none, and that is the problem.
Forced into a conflict and loosing everything is not fun.
Put the shoe on the other foot...
If you are interdicted and you do not deploy your hardpoints in defence, so you do not want to engage, and you are then destroyed the aggressor gets your rebuy,ship and cargo as a bounty.
You just respawn at the last docked station FOC.
If you fight back then you are fair game and face the consequences.
How many open killers would put up with a fair system like that I wonder.
verminstar
Banned
The point being kill them as fast as possible which makes the situation worse because then one has less time to react and clogs before a single shot is fired. If ones play sessions has seen past cmdrs firing without warning or reason, they more likely to clog at just the sight of another cmdr in the same instance.
That happens because of players who kill fer no reason which again puts the blame firmly onto those player actions and not frontier.
That being said...players perhaps choose their own little rules because thats how the game is sold...play yer own way...ring any bells? Saying theres a way in which the game 'should' be played is a contradiction to that because there literally is no proper way to play the game...there never was and most likely never will be unless frontier change their marketting tactics.
Would I still play if it was open only...I never would have started playing at all because I did some research into what this game actually entailed before starting it. The inclusion of the modes is what sealed the deal fer me because as an open only game, its a standing joke.
Would I still play if the death was permanent...yes I would because Ive already played this game in ironman mode and wiped my save 6 times already...one game one life...and others speak to me of what it means to be hardcore? Dont make me laugh...open players have no idea what it means to be hardcore...they just think that because it massages their ego in a warm and fuzzy way ^
I have an issue with your retort, in that ‘griefing’ doesn’t exist, as far as shooting other players. As I stated above, if you’re in open then you would have to expect, at one point or another, to be shot at (It ain’t all fluffy clouds and rainbows out there). This in itself isn’t griefing as it doesn’t break any coc’s. It’s not harassment or bullying when you lay in wait for anything to pop by. I leave it up to fate or sheer good/bad luck if they come across me.
Of course there are times that things could be considered as harassment. Like when someone adds another player as a friend, so they can simply see where you are and then go and kill them.
If you look up ‘griefing’ it states: “A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and angers other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.”
Now the last line is very important here, “using aspects of the game in unintended ways.” The two things that fits this description is ........ have you guessed it yet? ....... logging! And adding people in order to hunt them.
Shock horror! Loggers are the griefers
Shooting people because you can, isn’t ‘griefing’. Granted it might be a ‘poophead’ move but it’s not griefing, There is a distinction between them.
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