A griefer complaining about combat logging. 5/7, would read again.
On another note, is Ezren unbanned yet?
On another note, is Ezren unbanned yet?
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How to stop the cheats?
- Thread starter MegatronsFinger
- Start date
The biggest problem is not combat logging. The biggest problems are as follows:
-People thinking that "defending a system" is some form of gameplay (Power Play by default doesn't mean kill anyone who isn't on your side) There is more to this which is simple to determine in a few seconds.
-People defining combat logging differently (someone who doesn't want to be killed is different than someone who is intentionally fighting and avoids paying rebuy) If you are the aggressor and they seem to defend themselves and log out in a few seconds, perhaps they hit the log out and didn't want to fight. See comments above about combat ships targeting non-combat ships.
-People having the wrong context and incorrect information on what is "fair gameplay" in Open or Private
-People who are looking for people to fly by to attack (who don't have the equipment to identify if they have illegal passengers/criminals/cargo or cargo that a pirate wants) In those cases it shouldn't be fire away, and while some have issue with how NPCs do it, the fair play idea should always involve some message or warning. When you scan another pilot you have time to decide and message them, so if you go hostile and they don't know why and they don't have a bounty.......its pretty obvious what your intent is. Its to grief others and not to play the game which is why there are rewards for certain actions and penalties being added soon.
Its also why you see a common trend of those who avoid Open play. They are avoiding being griefed by you and others who think like you....we all get killed so its not to avoid a rebuy. You really have to remove that mindset. I'm not saying no one is intentionally combat logging but its 100% obvious if it occurs.
Perhaps Fdevs should add those pilots to the missions boards are pilot to kill as that is how the NPCs who do this are treated. A bounty that never goes away for X number of hours - days would be appropriate.
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"Well maybe player 2 didn't want to--"
Point I'm trying to make is, just like checkers, it's a game.
When you log out to avoid a loss, it's literally the same thing as flipping the board and throwing pieces.
The sad part is, all of your deaths are avoidable if you just learn how to escape danger.
You don't even need some super engineered ship. But lets not get into that here.
Not to mention the fact that solo and private group are options, too... but lets keep rage quitting out of open play lol.
Point I'm trying to make is, just like checkers, it's a game.
When you log out to avoid a loss, it's literally the same thing as flipping the board and throwing pieces.
The sad part is, all of your deaths are avoidable if you just learn how to escape danger.
You don't even need some super engineered ship. But lets not get into that here.
Not to mention the fact that solo and private group are options, too... but lets keep rage quitting out of open play lol.
You don't even notice how you expose yourself to ridiculousness with the things you say, do you?
You call people close-minded not one moment considering that it's you who might need to view things from a different angle.
You tell people they don't hear what you say but you try to give me a lesson about what open is though I have explained what it is for me.
That should have made clear that I already play open and I don't have only a "imagination what it contains"
And, no, it's not even ruthless, there are many cmdr's who help out others, train new players. Work together for other things than combat.
If your open is ruthless it might be you....
@newblacksmurf of course logging is the problem!!
Attacking people because of whatever reason, is fine. I’ve been on the receiving end of an attempted murder many times. Did I want to be attacked in my trade ship? No. Did they get me? Nope! Why not? Because it set my trade ships up with the intention of running away.
Hitting the power button or removing yourself from the game, should never be an option. EVER!
Having messaged fdev on more than a few occasions, they also agree with me.
Attacking people because of whatever reason, is fine. I’ve been on the receiving end of an attempted murder many times. Did I want to be attacked in my trade ship? No. Did they get me? Nope! Why not? Because it set my trade ships up with the intention of running away.
Hitting the power button or removing yourself from the game, should never be an option. EVER!
Having messaged fdev on more than a few occasions, they also agree with me.
Ok, in case you get bored by the game again, or some else clogs, or you just don't see anyone crossing the road to your killhouse...
Drop a message to me.
I'll let you destroy my 5k rebuy combat maxed modded engineered hauler forever...
Ok, in case you get bored by the game again, or some else clogs, or you just don't see anyone crossing the road to your killhouse...
Drop a message to me.
I'll let you destroy my 5k rebuy combat maxed modded engineered hauler forever...
Didn’t say that I was bored. I also didn’t say that I would kill someone more than once.
For me it’s the randomness of who you come across that I like. If a combat ship should cross my path, then so be it, I’ll still take it on. Same goes for any other ship. I’ve been presently surprised/horrified by ships on both sides of the size scale.
It really isn't a problem, honestly I do comprehend that players engage in combat and use the system as its designed to avoid being destroyed.
-That doesn't mean its a problem, its just that some of you do not like the Fdev decision to allow players to log out with a countdown during combat. However, who is anyone to say that is wrong....blowing them up may literally wipe them out and while we all want cause and effect, we don't want people to just die and quit cause they lost everything.
At some point you have to comprehend that blowing up a ship has larger implications long term and if no one keeps playing that's more of an issue to you than them logging out. Now within reason, it needs to be set up in a meaningful way.
In the correct definition of combat logging, the issue is the aggressor is seeking a reward and misses out on the reward they are seeking while the one who avoided destruction just goes on about their business in another game mode.
-THAT IS THE PROBLEM
-The Fdevs have designed something that doesn't make any sense.
So lets create a scenario.....
You are playing the game as intended and another player is doing something that is an infraction (Something worthy of being attacked or stopped)
-You should get rewards for the following:
1. Successfully interdicting the player and NPC if they have a bounty/something illegal/ clearly opposing Power Play
2. firing and hitting the player and NPC if they have a bounty/something illegal/ clearly opposing Power Play
3. successfully obtaining cargo as a pirateif they have cargo you request but not open to firing upon them until the blow up (Damaging them is fine)
4. Killing players and NPCs with bounties with or without missions
In contrast if they are not in the wrong:
1. You should get a global bounty for firing, blowing them up, interdicting them or other actions that is filterable on the map for all players per game mode.
This would mean NPCs and Player would then hunt you and that should apply for a few hours or so depending on severity.
My point is the system is unclear so what we see are difference of opinions as some would argue that Open is all anarchy even though that isn't true, its how they see it or what they want to be the case.
There has to be a clearly defined system and that's what the problem is. No clearly defined cause and effect from the Fdev team that doesn't require reading, it just happens real time while playing.
I felt the need to make a suggestion - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...and-Players-(Crime-amp-Punishment-suggestion)
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Well, actually, they do.
They just don't care.
Oh well, it's just how it goes. The modes are there for a reason I suppose. You just do a shot of whiskey and continue on your way.
Stopped watching so he could look for Sideys
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@newblacksmurf. I whole heartedly agree about being punished for attacking other players but that wasn’t the point of the post. The whole point is that people cheat in order to avoid the death. So in this case the attacker gets a bounty and damage to their ship, that has to be paid for and the cheats get a free pass.
It’s the cheating that’s the issue here and the unwillingness for fdev to address it.
Fdev were always quick to stamp on exploits, while the biggest and most insidious of all exploits gets left to fester.
In only seven engagements a few nights ago, all combat ships, four logged. One of them logged multiple times and kept coming back in to open. He then used language towards me that would make a sailor blush. He then reports me for using foul language??? The funny bit is, that I never swear at people over Xbox messages.
It’s the cheating that’s the issue here and the unwillingness for fdev to address it.
Fdev were always quick to stamp on exploits, while the biggest and most insidious of all exploits gets left to fester.
In only seven engagements a few nights ago, all combat ships, four logged. One of them logged multiple times and kept coming back in to open. He then used language towards me that would make a sailor blush. He then reports me for using foul language??? The funny bit is, that I never swear at people over Xbox messages.
Random murder, isn’t griefing. I’ve made my point further up. I would also urge you to look it up yourself and apply it to the situation without rose tinted glasses on.
Deleted member 110222
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What ridiculous trash.
Many of you avoid open because you want a power fantasy: an open galaxy without any meaningful challenge, or dare I say, true player interaction. You don't want to risk losing, much less actually dealing with defeat. Fact of the matter is you aren't very good at the game so instead of rectifying that you take to the forums and shame folks for disagreeing with your small little worldview.
Open is hardcore mode.
Private is play with your friends mode.
Solo is play by yourself mode.
There's plenty to go around for all of us. Enough with shaming Open players!
The modes are equal. That's not my words. That FD. They treat the modes with utmost attention to inclusivity. (spelling?)
Indeed, on a technical level, there is absolutely no difference whatsoever between Open and PG. Anything you can do in Open... You can do in PG. Including PvP.
Now, on your comment of those in Solo or PG being "not good"? Nobody cares dude. I'm amused by how important you think yourself, that you think I'm intimidated by your comments on my choice of mode. I only care about one thing. Having fun. If cutting you out of my game by choosing an instancing rule that makes it impossible for you to shoot me, guess what? I don't care what you think. It's true. I'm a nobody... But so are you. You are not important. Neither am I.
I think I have the better deal. Frontier have made a game that I can enjoy as I choose, even if it upsets you because you have no control over me. Again, I do not care about you. Your Xbox could be smashed by a burglar, I still wouldn't care. You are that inconsequential to me.
Dude, you're making yourself look an idiot, by this whole "I'm a better player in combat so you should only listen to me!"
Nobody cares, because I can still have fun, and you have no say in how I do it. None. You're nobody.
It is fine if you face consequences for your actions, but you do not.
The CMDR you kill bares the brunt of the attack, he/she looses a ship, cargo, time etc.
What do you loose?
More to the point, what do you gain apart from self satisfaction? Nothing really.
If someone is up for a fight then it is all good, but why oh why would you want to fight someone who does not want to fight.
Someone who is in a totally mis-matched ship.
The GG thing doesn't hold up either, carrying cargo in a ship effectively hamstrings it in all the departments that matter to combat.
Fighting on your terms really involves little or no skill, it is a numbers game if you have more you will win.
T's and C's kind of allow it so there is no stopping it, but it really is a muggy way to play.
These are direct quotes from the fdev team:
“We fully encourage you to continue reporting any behaviour of this kind and absolutely agree with you, it's cheating.”
“Our stance on PvP is that you are allowed to kill any player, at any time for any reason (or no reason at all in some cases). Assuming that combat confirms to the rules of the game, then it’s fair game. In group play, the admins of the group are free to set and enforce their own rules.
I hope this helps to address your questions and if there is anything else we can do for you, please let us know and we will of course, do our best to help.
All the best,
CMDR Vulcan”
From the fingers of fdev themselves.
“We fully encourage you to continue reporting any behaviour of this kind and absolutely agree with you, it's cheating.”
“Our stance on PvP is that you are allowed to kill any player, at any time for any reason (or no reason at all in some cases). Assuming that combat confirms to the rules of the game, then it’s fair game. In group play, the admins of the group are free to set and enforce their own rules.
I hope this helps to address your questions and if there is anything else we can do for you, please let us know and we will of course, do our best to help.
All the best,
CMDR Vulcan”
From the fingers of fdev themselves.
1.Its not cheating. They aren’t doing anything the game isn’t designed to allow so let’s not refer to it as such unless they are using some other method.
2. The OP to many of us describes what’s considered as griefing. This isn’t a designed type of gameplay, it’s a player choice that isn’t shared by everyone
3. Someone is getting a free pass idea doesn’t apply, the results however is desired by one party and undesired by the other. Again all within the current game design.
4. I haven’t been around but 2 years however I’m not aware of the developers not being willing to address concerns. They recently shared their thoughts on crime and punishment changes coming so at least this year it’s mot being ignored.
I think some feel that log out is the problem but that’s not actually the issue, that’s only one part of the overall situation and that point of view is skewed according to others in the conversation.
5. Some accountability applies to both involved. Again based on the OP, that is griefing so complaining about being avoiding death seems odd when they aren’t doing anything wrong. Also complaining about attacking ships that aren’t built for combat who don’t have infractions comes off as odd to me.
What some argue is wrong and other say it O K is the root of the issue. It’s compounded by a lack of clarity in the game UI in some cases but otherwise if someone playing in the same space as you isn’t having fun....and they leave, let them leave. Why anyone is trying to force people to play the way they want to play and ignoring the other desires is a bit silly.
If your actions are oushing others away....perhaps there is an opportunity for you to change and not them.
Its no different than kids in a sandbox rules, as everyone doesn’t want to play rough.
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Deleted member 110222
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I'm not disagreeing that logging is cheating. It is.
My beef in this thread is with Phisto. The audacity of one his posts in this thread... Well, I don't care, not on a level where it's going to affect my gameplay. But he's displaying the behaviour of someone who, frankly, doesn't deserve to be listened to. He's displaying incredibly selfish behaviour, and his attacks against Solo players are just downright arrogant.
I agree, it is a muggy way of playing if I were in a wing of prue combat ships (fdl, fas, vette, cutter or similar combat oriented ships.)
As for the mismatch of ships, I do most of my combat in a dbx, on my own. Yes I’ve fit it for combat but in the grand scheme of things, it’s an inadequate combat vessel.
As for not facing consequences. Oh I most certainly do. The policing factions know me and know of me and relentlessly chase me. This is both exciting and frustrating.
Personally, I don’t care for the gg’s unless if it’s genuinely a good fight.
Last of all, what do I gain from attacking people? Now I know I’ll get some flack for this, but when I kill some one, if they message with a “go fornicate with a chicken” or my favourite one to date “die of cancer” then they’ll not get anything.
On the other hand, if they message with a “omg that was brutal, can you give me some tips or even help” then I’ll definitely help. All of those that sent the second style of message have all prospered and have become friends. Those that send the first style, just get shot at again, the next day, as I have a 24hr cool down period to kill the same person again.
Anyway I hope I have given you some useful answers.
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@new blacksmurf, logging is most definitely cheating and PvP, wanted or not is allowed, as per the quotes from fdev. I don’t expect you to take my word for it and would urge you to contact fdev via a ticket and ask for it to be clarified. I and many people I know have done so and have received much the same answer. Hence the reason I posted the quotes.
Based on what you quoted.....The issue is the lack of clarification.
-What exactly does that quote mean without clearly defining what rules they are referring to (lacking cited link)
-What exact words did you use to ask the question?
-Did you describe it or did you let them watch a video recorded of the situation?
I gather that you are interpreting their response but the danger in how you're sharing it with us is... its only from your opinion, that they are saying "You are right".
I read it and honestly would say....
That's not what they are saying, they are communicating a few things also not communicating a few things.
“We fully encourage you to continue reporting any behaviour of this kind and absolutely agree with you, it's cheating.”
(Agree with what behavior exactly and how do they define cheating) and why is it misspelled?
“Our stance on PvP is that you are allowed to kill any player, at any time for any reason (or no reason at all in some cases). Assuming that combat confirms to the rules of the game, then it’s fair game. In group play, the admins of the group are free to set and enforce their own rules.
(O K so its only fair game if "combat confirms to the rules of the game" - What exactly are the rules of the game and where are these rules posted?)
“We fully encourage you to continue reporting any behaviour of this kind and absolutely agree with you, it's cheating.”
(Agree with what behavior exactly and how do they define cheating) and why is it misspelled?
“Our stance on PvP is that you are allowed to kill any player, at any time for any reason (or no reason at all in some cases). Assuming that combat confirms to the rules of the game, then it’s fair game. In group play, the admins of the group are free to set and enforce their own rules.
(O K so its only fair game if "combat confirms to the rules of the game" - What exactly are the rules of the game and where are these rules posted?)
So below if you want, go through all the info and links but what happens is we end back where we started.....there is absolutely no clarity so when they say or write things like the above, its ambiguous. What exactly are they referring to and where is it laid out. Can we all get access?
As a result, players are taking it upon themselves to create their opinions of what the rules are OR the extreme of.....hey man, the rules is....there are no rules. Really....that's what we are to believe.....then how the heck did you come up with the reply that some one else is cheating?
Honestly, you cant say in one breath its all fair game and then another....they are cheating when there isn't any third party or software manipulating anything. Combat logging would seem to be fair game just as reporting combat logging could be cheating. See how ambiguous that is?
In the end its a situation where...Fdevs aren't taking responsibility but trying to appease everyone circumstantially.
Reference 1:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/359320/discussions/0/385429254945501417/ or go here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=237761
We wanted to reiterate some examples regarding the rules of Player harassment
. If a player has been blocked from a private group, or a group/individual has taken every step possible to remove a player from their gameplay, then attempting to circumvent this in any fashion is a serious offense and action will be taken accordingly. Attempting to re-establish contact with an individual who has blocked a player through secondary accounts or other methods of attempting to evade the block are against the rules. Action can and will be taken against both the accounts in question and the main accounts of players that we deem to be harassing players through this method.
In addition taking action such as seeking out and targeting specific players purely for the purpose of being disruptive, to cause offence, or to upset players within the community can also be considered harassment. A perfect example of this is deliberately attempting to disrupt public livestreams such as the charity ones mentioned before. This includes, but is not limited to, the capturing of footage and releasing it publically in an attempt to create upset or gain notoriety through the actions listed above.
We have previously stated, and it remains true, that Frontier are not able to manage group specific rules. Players considered to be breaking these group rule sets as established by group moderators should be removed from those groups by said moderators. In addition, running a livestream in Open does invite the potential for players to approach and impact your gameplay and running a livestream in which you are declaring war on another group and they come and take action against you is reasonable and should be expected.
Ultimately it’s about context. In addition taking action such as seeking out and targeting specific players purely for the purpose of being disruptive, to cause offence, or to upset players within the community can also be considered harassment. A perfect example of this is deliberately attempting to disrupt public livestreams such as the charity ones mentioned before. This includes, but is not limited to, the capturing of footage and releasing it publically in an attempt to create upset or gain notoriety through the actions listed above.
We have previously stated, and it remains true, that Frontier are not able to manage group specific rules. Players considered to be breaking these group rule sets as established by group moderators should be removed from those groups by said moderators. In addition, running a livestream in Open does invite the potential for players to approach and impact your gameplay and running a livestream in which you are declaring war on another group and they come and take action against you is reasonable and should be expected.
The support team can and will review these kinds of offences and will be taking action against accounts that set their entire purpose on harassing players and groups in this way. They are currently investigating a number of incidents and will be dealing directly with any parties involved.
The Frontier Support team take the protection and safety of the community very seriously, they strive to ensure that the game remains fair and friendly. If you feel the need to report an incident, please do get in contact with support via our support site at
https://support.frontier.co.ukThe Frontier Support team take the protection and safety of the community very seriously, they strive to ensure that the game remains fair and friendly. If you feel the need to report an incident, please do get in contact with support via our support site at
- please include as much detail of the event as possible.
You can see a copy of the rules that everyone signs up to by creating an account, including harassment, here:
https://www.frontierstore.net/ed-eula/You can see a copy of the rules that everyone signs up to by creating an account, including harassment, here:
Reference 2: https://www.frontierstore.net/code-...17.1014631732.1512745993-257947935.1507309178
Reference3:
: https://www.elitedangerous.com/en/gameplay/
Combat
Arm yourself. It's a cutthroat galaxy out there, and you'll need combat skills to survive.
Why buy cargo when you can pirate it from a fellow Commander? Why explore distant systems when the data can be stolen? The galaxy is filled with vulnerable pilots, but The Pilots Federation takes care of its own.
Commanders who go rogue will accrue a bounty from The Pilots Federation, making them fair game for a would-be bounty hunter in Elite Dangerous' connected galaxy.
Combat, alone with Trading, Exploration and CQC offers progression to the rank of Elite. Rogue Commanders, assassination missions, or paid wetwork from one (or all) the galactic superpowers can bring wealth and respect.
Combat offers direct progression to the rank of Elite.
Why buy cargo when you can pirate it from a fellow Commander? Why explore distant systems when the data can be stolen? The galaxy is filled with vulnerable pilots, but The Pilots Federation takes care of its own.
Commanders who go rogue will accrue a bounty from The Pilots Federation, making them fair game for a would-be bounty hunter in Elite Dangerous' connected galaxy.
Combat, alone with Trading, Exploration and CQC offers progression to the rank of Elite. Rogue Commanders, assassination missions, or paid wetwork from one (or all) the galactic superpowers can bring wealth and respect.
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