Hull repair limpets: has sense been pre-applied?

[StiTch]

From https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ntier_qa_panel_lavecon_2017_features_changes/

"Mark Allen, lead programmer, confirms some new additions: Repair limpets for hull"


First off, let me clarify I believe this to be an appalling idea. But this isn't my game, so I would like to scourge the minds of all that might read, to see what we currently know about its implementation.

It goes without saying that, ignoring yet another loss to consequence, there is serious abuse potential behind such a tool. The main ones from a combat perspective are as follows:

- Phasing becomes irrelevant (PvP only until NPCs gain experimental effects). With damage trickling through shields as it is, especially after being nerfed, and having no PvE application you may as well write this effect off as an unequivocal disadvantage. The kinda fluff that is only used by people that don't know how it works yet.

- Shield builds can heal hull with shields up (All playstyles). What it says on the tin. Do we need iCutters with several k mj shields recharging that shield, then curing all damage it took between an AFMU and hull repair unit?

- Faster ships can zoom off, heal, return (All playstyles). Again...what it says on the tin. Effective removal of attrition damage as well as free mid-combat reheals.


What I am hoping to hear is the glorious words "this will not work during combat" in some form, whatever ED would use to determine you as in combat. In addition I would like to hear there's any kind of obstacle to the run off/heal/return problem.

All knowledge welcome, including about what I am having for tea tonight.


UPDATE: A little ambiguous, but a much appreciated note outlining the intention here:

Hello Commanders!

Hull repair limpets should not be effective in combat.

 

[fruitbat]

Simple solution.

Have to turn your shield off to enable them to work, and also won't repair whilst damage is still being taken.

Not saying that's what will happen but...

 

[Leo Sagan]

I always assumed that repair limpets wouldn't work with shields active. [EDIT : damn, too slow]

 

[StiTch]

Simple solution.

Have to turn your shield off to enable them to work, and also won't repair whilst damage is still being taken.

Certainly would help the situation. It wouldn't stop fast hull tanks running off mid fight to heal though...but still a step in the right direction.

As you say though, and the reason for this thread...speculation aside, do we know what we're actually up against, or can we expect them to almost deliberately release a broken mechanic so they can wait for half the community to break down before they think of a solution? -_-

 

[Tom2]

I guess you can destroy them like any other limpet, so be sure to bring some missiles.


Also it will probably take some time for them to repair the hull of a ship, maybe 2-3 seconds per 1%.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

From https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ntier_qa_panel_lavecon_2017_features_changes/

"Mark Allen, lead programmer, confirms some new additions: Repair limpets for hull"


First off, let me clarify I believe this to be an appalling idea. But this isn't my game, so I would like to scourge the minds of all that might read, to see what we currently know about its implementation.

It goes without saying that, ignoring yet another loss to consequence, there is serious abuse potential behind such a tool. The main ones from a combat perspective are as follows:

Phasing becomes irrelevant (PvP only until NPCs gain experimental effects). With damage trickling through shields as it is, especially after being nerfed, and having no PvE application you may as well write this effect off as an unequivocal disadvantage. The kinda fluff that is only used by people that don't know how it works yet.

Shield builds can heal hull with shields up (All playstyles). What it says on the tin. Do we need iCutters with several k mj shields recharging that shield, then curing all damage it took between an AFMU and hull repair unit?

Faster ships can zoom off, heal, return (All playstyles). Again...what it says on the tin. Effective removal of attrition damage as well as free mid-combat reheals.


What I am hoping to hear is the glorious words "this will not work during combat" in some form, whatever ED would use to determine you as in combat. In addition I would like to hear there's any kind of obstacle to the run off/heal/return problem.

All knowledge welcome, including about what I am having for tea tonight.

There is an upcoming beta and even an Open beta, so feel free to find out for yourself. I have a feeling though that this will not be the spectacular "miracle cure" for hull damage it is being made to sound like with absolutely no information to support that speculation. It's every bit possible they require a ship to be stationary to work. Try remaining stationary in combat and let us know how well that works out.

Personally, I think Hull Repair limpets are an Idea. Not a good one, not a bad one, just one. I'd rather see hull repair carried out by SRV myself - and not by Scarab, without re-outfitting it, but a more specialized SRV, but that's just me. I'll deal with Hull Repair Limpets and whatever they may bring to the table when they arrive.

 

[StiTch]

There is an upcoming beta and even an Open beta, so feel free to find out for yourself. I have a feeling though that this will not be the spectacular "miracle cure" for hull damage it is being made to sound like with absolutely no information to support that speculation.

As someone that quite deliberately avoids betas, some information - whether it supports speculation or not - is exactly what I am after.

Plenty of places to forum PvP here, and I'd be a happy CMDR if this thread were closed with a single post that says "so this is how they work, you have nothing to worry about" or "actually they've been tested and it's already looking lunatic".

Your preference is also mine, as it happens. It's one of the few mechanics that could have given more life to the SRV or "space legs". But this is (nearly) here, so I'll have to stick with some research and knowing what to expect.

 

[Siobhan]

I'd assumed* that hull repair limpets would be mostly an Explorer or S&R thing, (cf putting repair lasers onto an SRV) and would have limited utility in a combat scenario. More an after the fact patch up so you survive the trip home.

*Yes, yes I know what assume makes...

 

[Baton]

I think this was directed most towards the explorers who cannot repair the ship sometimes being weeks away from nearest station, obviously it will have some impact on PvP but I would not worry before the beta kicks in and you have the chance to test it

ninjad'

(being on Q&A panel on Lavecon I liked somebody's idea about repairing Power Plant as well with a help of special Battery Module you can install in one of the slots, but then I have no spare slots on any small ship I usually use for exploration, so it would be only good for condas probably)

 

[Colonel Kenney]

Complaining about nothing. If you don't' like them.. don't use them. Don't deny the rest of us from using them.

I'm completely fine with them. Just power shields down and out of supercruise to use. You'll need to buy a MODULE for it and module space is limited on ships so I don't even know if I would use it.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Limpets already have a speed limit requirement otherwise they don't engage properly. I'd imagine it'd work similarly so if you are not flying slow/stopped and are turning/fighting the limpet wouldn't engage meaning you can't heal.. Should solve the problem for the most part.

The idea of going off to a sideline point and refreshing (shields + hull with afmu & repair limpets + heal lasers) is kinda cool. Pitched 4v4 PvP battle and a Cutter tank 15km out where they can retreat to and repair/reboot to quickly restock and get back in the fight. Makes the Cutter a huge target but sounds like fun.

Also good for PvP tournaments and organised fights where there can be a heal station so fights can be done anywhere in the galaxy.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

*panic*

wait, i had never had a limpet that needs to return to my own ship, survive during combat.
after all, they get shot down by point defenses all over the place.

they DEVs will make sure hull repair wont work during combat

 

[Siobhan]

Limpets already have a speed limit requirement otherwise they don't engage properly. I'd imagine it'd work similarly so if you are not flying slow/stopped and are turning/fighting the limpet wouldn't engage meaning you can't heal.. Should solve the problem for the most part.

The idea of going off to a sideline point and refreshing (shields + hull with afmu & repair limpets + heal lasers) is kinda cool. Pitched 4v4 PvP battle and a Cutter tank 15km out where they can retreat to and repair/reboot to quickly restock and get back in the fight. Makes the Cutter a huge target but sounds like fun.

Also good for PvP tournaments and organised fights where there can be a heal station so fights can be done anywhere in the galaxy.

We used to do that in Eve Online actually... And yeah, it does paint a giant target on your back.

 

[CMDR Ofan]

It is ok, relax. I very much doubt they will repair as fast as weapons can inflict damage especially engineered weapons and as others have said like the other repair mechanism in game will likely require trade-offs, like shutting down systems, rebooting or perhaps even having to power down completely.

 

[CMDR EO]

My guess is it'll take several minutes and your ship will have to be stationary.

 

[Cmdr Tel]

I think this was directed most towards the explorers who cannot repair the ship sometimes being weeks away from nearest station, obviously it will have some impact on PvP but I would not worry before the beta kicks in and you have the chance to test it

ninjad'

(being on Q&A panel on Lavecon I liked somebody's idea about repairing Power Plant as well with a help of special Battery Module you can install in one of the slots, but then I have no spare slots on any small ship I usually use for exploration, so it would be only good for condas probably)

I can't see them being that much use for exploration..there aren't enough slots except as you say on the Annie. Add to that the weight. They need to have a combo scanner module to free up some room.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

I can't see them being that much use for exploration..there aren't enough slots except as you say on the Annie. Add to that the weight. They need to have a combo scanner module to free up some room.

Well you say that but the Fuel Rats will no doubt start a Repair Rats spin-off.

I know when 2.4 launches I will be taking orders from anyone needing repairs way out and I'll do a little tour around repairing anyone who needs it. Probably end up taking a good 120 limpets or whatever and just working my way around the galaxy to those who want it.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

As someone that quite deliberately avoids betas, some information - whether it supports speculation or not - is exactly what I am after.

Plenty of places to forum PvP here, and I'd be a happy CMDR if this thread were closed with a single post that says "so this is how they work, you have nothing to worry about" or "actually they've been tested and it's already looking lunatic".

Your preference is also mine, as it happens. It's one of the few mechanics that could have given more life to the SRV or "space legs". But this is (nearly) here, so I'll have to stick with some research and knowing what to expect.

I happen to like betas, but not enough to pay for one, so if the Paida testers don't post it first, I'll post my own findings during the Open phase.

 

[soddish]

At the very least I'd expect repair limpets to work slowly, repair over time rather than instantly, and have a tight limit on how many you can have active at once. Other ship-targeted limpets (hatch breaker, fuel transfer) require the target's shields to be down, so I'd be surprised if these didn't too.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I suppose the question is: do they heal enough hull per limpet to be worth giving up two internals (controller+cargo bay) for, and would you get more effective health out of HRPs instead?

A 4D hull reinforcement with heavy duty 5 engineering gives 528 health (extreme primaries, no secondaries). Will 16 limpets heal that much? (bearing in mind anyone can kill every limpet in the area with an ECM burst, which might become the utility of choice for phasing builds, so you might need more than 16 to get the full healing...)

Let's say that's the break-even: 528 health = 16 limpets (A-class controller) would be about 35 hull per limpet. 11 limpets then completely repairs an exploration Asp hull, so even if you have to synthesise every single limpet explorers can use it to keep going, or people can drop by to repair them in deep space no problem. You could even cut it to 20 hull per limpet (break-even versus an engineered 5D HRP) and still basically patch up the Asp off a class 4 cargo bay in a few minutes of limpet use.

A full hull-tank FAS would have well over 4000 hull, so that would take well over 100 limpets to repair (at 35 hull each), or about a class 7 cargo bay full of limpets. Well, the FAS isn't carrying those itself...

Make the limpets take a few seconds per repair, plus flight time, and a 1A controller (single limpet) is not going to be healing hull very fast at all. Yeah, you could hide a Cutter with paired 5A controllers away from the fight for it to retreat to... at 6 limpets a burst, 10 seconds minimum a burst even if it's just limpet flight time, it'd take 3-5 minutes to repair. That's getting into "could run away, low-wake, get to the station and come back anyway" sorts of time, and you'd probably be more effective just shooting at people with the Cutter.


Now, if it turns out that each limpet heals 100+ hull points, then it starts to get more worrying. But they don't need to be anywhere near that good to be perfectly viable for non-combat uses. I guess we'll find out which it is soon...